(Karen) #201

Aww thank you Robin. I actually do have a fancy long dress in very similar colours… i love colour. I tend to wear quite a bit of black in the winter months but soon as spring is upon us its back into the colour.

Dinner just before heading out dancing was a lovely ribeye steak.

the drums were my brunch.

Had a super lovely evening dancing at Melton Mowbray (where the famous Melton Mowbray pork pies come from) floor was fabulous and so danceable and Colin played our special versian of The Pink Panther for us to Slow Foxtrot to and gave us a big knowing smile. Wow we danced our feet off and really made tle most of that track and it just ended up as an off the cuff dem for them … havent done that in a while what with one thing and another! :grinning::dancer::man_dancing:

Got home about 11 15pm and attacked the cheddar! Just about ready for bed … bit on the late side for me but hey ho!

(Linda ) #202

Meats and seafood has sodium and carnivores not in ketosis are not dumping sodium so Many do better with out salt. Others salt to taste and others need more.


Barely. Well I don’t talk aboput seafood but food I eat. It’s almost nothing.
My eggs have a decent amount but it’s still a fragment of what I consume now and that is waaaaay less than what people consider totally needed on keto. I don’t get this “carnivores aren’t in ketosis thing”, carbs are low, it must be ketosis :smiley: But fine, non-keto, I need 5g salt, that’s… IDK how much sodium multiply it by 5/12. How people live with way less? Why their body says very little is needed when mine wants to keep my consumption where it is?

That’s what I wish to understand but I have found nothing to explain it this far. I merely know it is a thing for some carnivores while other carnivores eat multiple times more salt than I do.

I checked. If I eat very normally, that gives me about 700mg sodium a day. 1.7g salt, oh a tad more than expected.
Maybe the ones who are fine without added salt, eat more and potentially more sodium rich items? Do anyone know their sodium consumption? I am curious about it since I heard about it but now I am even more so.

I would love to experiment but I am still very much attached to my salty food :slight_smile: And I don’t need it at all, I am just curious.

By the way I had temporal thinking problems and ate at night. Well I wasn’t fully satiated so of course I did. But it was very late, couldn’t have I just gone to bed…? But that’s not how I work. Especially with meat in my fridge that I barely tasted…
It wasn’t much but my protein became high again though still lower than usual. (I tasted my turkey better and ate my leftover egg pudding. Oh it seems my egg pudding boredom disappeared during the long weeks I avoided it. I love it again.)

Today I go for a lean, low-cal OMAD day! Well, healthily low-cal though after my last two days even a fasting day should be fine. I just won’t do it. Turkey!

I am way too food addicted and since a few days it involves what and how much I eat as well :frowning: That’s not chill. I shouldn’t even think about it for… Until I get hungry.

Ugly, gloomy day.

(Megan) #204

My blood ketones, when I measured them, were almost never higher than 0.2, and sometimes 0. I measured in the morning when I woke up after the overnight “fast”. I put it down to eating too much protein to be in ketosis.


@MeganNZ— Megan refresh me on how long you are carnivore :slight_smile: I chat so many zc’ers I forget sometimes where some are on plan!

Most and I mean like literally the entire zc community do not chase ketones unless they are longer term on plan and at that same time they ‘have an issue’ they need to address.

Just sayin’, wondering where you are in your zc journey now but I also know you are on ‘real medications’ etc right? So those can easily and truly effect ketones and how they burn thru the body and time on plan does that also unless one is forcing onself into ‘active ketosis’ thru like a PKD plan on carni.

Just chatting here to find where you are at kinda and also wondering why you did a 24 hr fast? Just asking again :slight_smile: just to get more info on your situation you are facing kinda!


you are dancing your tiny little toes off. So happy you are doing great to enjoy your dancing so much as you do again.
Becoming quite the jigsaw queen too. great pics!

--------------so here are my 6 big wings going into the oven. delish. I ate only 3 since I wasn’t all that hungry so later I will eat the 3 leftover with a burger patty to start my day. Second meal. Not sure----right now NO food is calling my name.

See on carnivore heading into year 6 now I can wake up and instinctively know my path for how I need to eat. I know a steak and ? I know leaner first meal and ? But this morning I woke up in the, who cares mode of zc. So I got leftover wings, yup I will eat, will need a tad more so just frying up a fast ol’ burger to hound down and fill the belly and done deal. Second meal again, no draw in my mind so will think on it later.

I love this part of zc also in that when I go ‘to fully nourished body’ that kinda like requires nothing for food intake like low eating days like this, it means I should shed a lb on the scale…yes yes yes I rarely but still get on that scale as a check in HA but I won’t live or die by it anymore by any means. So be interesting to see since I am in a whatever who cares no draw to food mode of eating I will see if any good comes from it later.

Just rollin’ along. ZC strong. All good in my corner. But I wish I could hit some better meat sales. I sure ain’t finding any good seafood sales out there :frowning: ugh but carnivore eyes open and sharp for sales during my hunts :wink:


(Megan) #207

Hey Fangs, 7 months in. I started keto for a couple of weeks then went carnivore, so measuring ketones months ago was a spillover from my newbie keto days. I didn’t do a 24 hour fast, I said overnight “fast” i.e. the time between when I last ate the day before to 1st eating the next day. I take a small amount of quetiapine, which is well known to mess some people up metabolically. My friend takes a much higher dose and very definitely became pre-diabetic, whereas my HbA1c has always been normal, even when I was eating very unhealthily. She’s currently doing keto, taking 4 to 12 times the amount I do, depending on her mental health issues, and her blood ketones are between 2-3.

I worry about how she’s eating by the way. She won’t eat “real meat”, preferring stuff like ham, chicken nuggets, burger patties full of rubbish. She eats a very small amount of this so called meat (tho I suppose ham is real meat), a small amount of cabbage with a very, very small amount of carrot, and a massive amount of mayo. That’s it, day in day out. She feels terrible physically, but her bipolar is a bit more stable. Very low protein, very low carbs, very high fat. She read (or misread?!) some govt/health dept guideline saying someone her height only needs 30 grams of protein a day max, and she refuses to eat more. She also says even eating a little bit more also throws her out of ketosis.

I don’t test my ketones anymore because I’m not trying to be in ketosis. I’m still steadily losing weight (18 kg now in 7 months), which is the most important thing to me right now, and I’m generally feeling “okay”. Okay for me means I still have dysthymia and very low energy every day, but it doesn’t get me down too much.


OH OK cause the post above that said your ketones were XYZ and ya tested them so it kinda threw me off. saying you put it down to ‘too much’ protein to be in ketosis. which made me think you are trying to be in ‘active ketosis’.

remember now that a ‘person long term on a ketone burn body’; will not dump ketones like a new person ever. Our ketones, all of them, now function in different order. They are the fuel system. They ‘do their job’ and are not ‘forced thru new change’ and showing us we flipped into a ketone burn body vs. a glucose burn body unless we ‘actively force ketosis’ in our carnivore lifestyle. which one can do with something like a PKD protocol etc. Anyone new to big low carb dump or into Keto plan or hitting zc plan will have big ketosis numbers…then we don’t :slight_smile: Most carnivores are never in ‘active ketosis’ numbers so to check kinda is useless for all of us. What we are is ‘ketone burning bodies’ and we can’t be ‘in active ketosis’ unless we put ourselves there and to say, kinda, too much protein took us out of active ketosis numbers kinda ain’t right in our path either. Since longer term, like you near a year now to get that ‘Carniversary’ coming at ya won’t ever burn anymore just eating meat probably an active ketosis number. It can’t happen. Our ketones are now a long term, new fuel source that ‘does it thing’ and without you putting yourself into ‘active ketosis big numbers’ on carnivore you would have to definitely manipulate your menu tough now to do just that. So don’t worry on ever about ketones. Longer ya go, the less they mean to many of us. I haven’t thought about a ketone in over the 6 yrs I been doing carnivore LOL :slight_smile: Its a good thing believe me HAHA

Your friend has it rough for sure :slight_smile: :slight_smile: It is so hard to watch oneself change as you are currently doing, AND DOING SO WELL and then watch another flounder. but darn ‘if nutrition’ ain’t a worse topic to chat than politics and religion ya know :wink: I can only send good vibes to your friend on the journey they have to walk!

ahhh, normal overnight ‘fast’ :100::crazy_face: I see that word fast and cringe HAHA

Sounds like to me Megan you are ‘walking yourself slowly toward’ the right healing and nutrition and vitality of life and ‘good ol’ ZC Zen’ you need. More power to ya M!! The longer we hold zc and just eat, eat what the body says to eat the longer we hold this plan and experience real hardcore healing and body repair, the better we become a ‘whole new us’ putting in that effort over time.


Yep but it depends which kind of ham… It should be nearly 100% proper meat with some processing, the real ham but people call various things “ham” nowadays, it’s a deli meat too… By the way, folks, do you have the thing in your countries where people call chicken breast deli meat ham? “Chicken breast ham”, it’s super common here. Some people lost their mind because chicken has no ham but it probably was similar enough to call it so (wrongly)…? No idea, never ate “ham” made from chicken breast :smiley:
But we have deli meat ham (still delicious but I avoid it) and proper ham, with fat layer and skin and everything, it’s merely smoked and often cooked. That’s meat just not fresh so it’s in my “processed meat” category where it belong. Okay meat but I wouldn’t base my meat eating on it.

Oh my god. At least he eats fat but it’s still horrible. But she has a longer time before dying of hunger or some other starvation relating problems, MAYBE someone can help her to see reason during that time?! I seriously worry about such people :frowning:
Why humans often have no proper instincts? Animals have. They know they need food but I have the same even without my knowledge… Most people don’t starve themselves in any way. But some do while they are among the lucky ones who could afford enough proper food, it’s so very tragic.

Doesn’t mean very low ketone level ketosis? And zero is lack of it? Of course many of us don’t produce and waste a high amount of them, we are more effective than that! :slight_smile:
But I just can say what I read about, I never ever could measure my ketones (never could buy anything for it. well I wouldn’t buy an expensive stuff but when I learned the result doesn’t matter anyway, I just never cared about it again) and I don’t even care about ketosis or carnivore or anything. I ONLY care about my health and well-being and whatever gives me that without me feeling restricted, I try to follow that.
As my body is happiest with close to zero plant matter, apparently, I aim to do that. I had signs of ketosis and I got fat adapted so I am quite sure I went into and stayed in ketosis on my original high-protein, higher-carb keto. I know high protein may be a problem for others, not for me, not like I could do anything about it. I would need some extreme health problems on high-protein for me to even entertain the idea of lowering it forcefully. I TRIED to eat only 90-100g protein, failed every time (happened to single days). But my body is smart and surely knows what it is doing.
I put a decent amount of effort into eating only 130-140g protein a day now (without overeating fat), it’s doable but I need to focus a bit.

But I talk about me again, things I surely wrote many times before.
It’s not a nice day for me, maybe shouldn’t come here but this place usually cheers me up and my willpower is non-existent when I am this down.

It sounds me very wrong that we can’t go into ketosis if we eat the protein we clearly need so I just can’t believe in that. Anyway, I experienced signs of ketosis many times on high-protein. So I suppose I am in ketosis then. And why would lots of plant matter keep me in ketosis and the lack of them not? Doesn’t make sense to me so I suppose I am in ketosis on carnivore (or close) as well (anyway, my hunger feeling maybe still points into that direction…? I am uncertain as I basically can’t feel when I am in ketosis, I just have hints that maybe I am, use knowledge about my early keto times when I had to be in ketosis as I got fat adapted and while I can’t be sure about the latter, I am as the changes were that drastic and it happened after 7 weeks).


I had no calf cramps this year and I take no magnesium. Yay.
I had this on carnivore before, that’s how it started but then I got back the cramps lately. (Of course I did my on/off things, never could stuck even to keto for long. But my cramps used to respond to my keto times very quickly.)

But there is none this year and I did keto even on my off days… When I did keto with a bunch of plants and higher-carb, I always got the cramps very quickly…

We will see what happens in the future. I actually should go stricter, I am very undisciplined in the last days :frowning: I am a toe out of carnivore-ish :frowning: Still very close to carnivore but it’s not what I planned yet. I know I have emotional mental problems leading to that now, I do what I can, staying close enough and aiming for something better!

And I feel miserable today and I don’t care, I eat lunch without need… I don’t think I every was a comfort eater but today I feel pretty close to it. More like joy eater, food can’t comfort me though a full belly feels more peaceful… Still does nothing to my real problems. And it adds more. I am displeased with myself. I drank too many coffees already… It helps nothing so hopefully it will sink in and I stop. But I have cream now so not today. Still should drink less.


OK S when I read your post you are 'feeling a way forward, a better path and are darn right having big changes to yourself that are coming to mind, you literally ‘are chatting out with you the way forward’ and I read it in your posts.

What I had to do is stop the I am displeased with me posts you are saying about you. I said them too til I decided to drop that crap :slight_smile: Nope. Gone is focus on what I ‘feel I fail in’ and in is all the good I know I am changing :slight_smile: I read ALOT of good in your self work on yourself and seeing and feeling now where that future path could lead ya know. I see it in your sentences. But then you put alot of pressure on ya with the coffee and more.

You don’t need that :slight_smile: :slight_smile: Drink your coffee. But ya know what, eat first. it is the simplest change ONE can do regarding coffee as I read it all the time on the carnivore forums in that if one wakes and holds off coffee, to eat first, (this is for some people who can adapt change with doing their coffee intake like this and it works best for them if they try it) is put food first. Just make a mental acknowledgement your first thing past your lips will be food and water. First. In your day. Coffee will come next as you want. Easy peasy ‘allowance’ of good day moving forward without no restrictions, just a drink/food flip change,

this is a very small experiment one can easily do on themselves on a carnivore lifestsyle.

Eat good zc food. Drink some water. Then have the coffee you want after. Simple simple change. easy for many and then we ‘find ourselves’ in more with time on how to handle ‘that damn coffee realm’ that can effect many :sunny:

Key being, know one thing ONLY AFTER eating that first good meal with water…you can have all the darn coffee ya want in your day :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

Thing is once eating a real meal first before coffee, and drinking water with that meal you will…in time…feel your ‘want of coffee’ alot to come down. Now one thing is it takes time and a mindset change and a caffeine withdrawl addiction to hit that coffee before anything else we do in life when we wake up :slight_smile: :slight_smile: but IF YOU do a small experiment on yourself, eat meat meal/water first then take off all that ‘now I gotta restrict coffee BS’ from your life…just allow all coffee ya feel ya need after, this can effect BIG change in how you ‘need coffee’ ya know.

this is ‘generalized basic’ info on how carnivores ‘handle coffee’ in their lives for those who have ‘some issues’ with coffee in their lives :slight_smile: Read tons and tons of ‘coffee issues’ with zc’ers over the years but the basics…eat meat/drink water then allow coffee is how they changed their mindset on their personal coffee intake so…just sending info forward to ya as I read it.

just passing forward how they deal and how they change. I never drank coffee. A wee bit in the old days but dumped it fast. I hate the stuff LOL but I am sending forward carnivore info and actions others take to ‘change their coffee’ attitude thru a small experiment and easy change and many say, WOW, who the hell needs coffee? I don’t. But some say they still want a cup but not 6 like before? or whatever change you do get :slight_smile:

so just sending some info forward to think about.

(Megan) #212

Nope, I’ve only ever had one reading higher than 0.2. I started measuring blood ketones as soon as I started keto, and for about a month or so when I went carnivore a few weeks later. It bugged me no end! Even when I tried the much lower protein/much higher fat protocol for about 5 weeks, I didn’t go over 0.2.

Nah, read it again. I spoke about measuring ketones in the past tense.

I’ve posted several videos which say the opposite. Also the folks on carnivore who’s HbA1c starts going up, then up more, then up even more, while they register zero or close to zero blood ketones, show the opposite. And the KetoAF/Amber O’Hearn protocol of lowering protein and spreading it out throughout the day, along with significantly increasing fat, shows the opposite.

The ketogenic diet is a very low carb and only moderate protein diet. Some folks eat more protein but they tend to be people who exercise a fair bit and have a heck of a lot more muscle than I do lol. I’m happy to plod along as I am because I’m losing weight and appreciating a decent reduction in chronic pain. I don’t worry about what my ketones are or aren’t anymore, my initial comment a few postings up was in response to something Linda and Shinita said.

Yea my friend does have it rough. Her bipolar, when it’s not under control, makes her life a living hell. She has done so many unsafe and downright unwise things when hypomanic or fully manic. Eating the way she is means she can take a lower dose of some medications, and so far it’s stopping her from having a manic episode. But it’s meant going from riding the edge of low level of mania to being quite depressed, and that’s awful. Thanks for sending her good vibes :slight_smile:


yea I agree and disagree ONLY in that 'who we are coming into this big massive elimination eating plan ‘as carnivore’ is who we are :slight_smile:

Many come into it way healthier than another. That is where I agree that IF ONE is having issues, later on plan, when they are more than adapted and are ‘truly eating’ zc and not jumping in and out of plan…then they ‘tackle themselves!!!’ as needed. I couldl not agree more that there is a subset in carnivore and I absolutely agree with ya.

but to say ‘overall’ bigger protein is the problem is just showing it is a problem ‘for some’ and never all.

So yea in our community we walk that ‘fine line of ‘how to say it’ and what works for each of us at what time line on the plan’. is kinda what I am trying to get across but I think me and you are on that same page.

See Kelly and Amber and many ‘change up’ stuff but then take Charles Washington and the Bear and Shawn who just friggin’ eat as needed. Eat all the protein they want. But then take ‘carnivores on meds’ as real life diagnosed meds they require, you got another subset of what protein works for them.

Key being we can’t ever generalize overall ‘for all’ that protein intake too much is ever a problem cause it is not for many of us. What I would love is everyone showing their ‘body truths’ and ‘real med issues’ when posting a sentence like that to show what works for them and as they must proceed and learn as they go vs a general statement of it…you know :slight_smile: so much written can be so wrong taken for another :sunny:

ZC has some very simple basic rules to this lifestyle that enacts change/healing and repair and more…but then it varies as we know on who we are as individuals.

But longer term carnivores that were facing alot of ‘dealing with real med issues’ and med presciptions and how they went forward, in time change a hell of alot with TIME also and they walk that tight path as they require.

Best darn thing…if we hold the plan, do for us and get advice from others walking near that path we can only get darn heathier and change as we need and ‘re-change’ as we need as we heal more and more and darn if that can’t take years for some but gosh darn they get there even as a healthier person walks their big zc change path and gets there too!

good post and great chat :sunny:

only thing that always worries me is the ‘guru’ people who are out there and chatting say ‘this is me and what I need now’ but NEW people blow past that little bit of disclaimer and think, omgosh I need to do that now when they do not. But that is info out there and as it is heard on the 'net and more on that day so.

I so enjoy chatting this stuff out tho on zc and key is ‘do the plan’ heal more and find you on it all the time.

Sorry your friend is in a mire. A mire can be so deep for sure. It is her walk and one you can chat a bit to help and more, but her path is just that as we know our paths on what we ‘will tackle’ to change is our individual paths too!

(Megan) #214

Great posting Fangs. I’d love to jump a few years into the future and take a peek at who and how I am there. Guess I’ll have to be a mere mortal and arrive there by the day-by-day route lol.


oh yea I feel ya LOL
I read the long term vets and their life on this plan and I was like, WTF? I ain’t even close to that chat they talk or the ‘feelings of body’ as they talk but to me, this is when the long termers said ‘KEEP THE ZC FAITH’ and I repeat that cause NOW I AM there darn it and never in a million yrs thought I could change to this or ‘feel’ this way but darn I do :slight_smile: and NOW I ‘get them’ when it was all so foreign and out of reach and total no context of understanding.

long darn road truly thru it all. sometimes feeling so alone cause ‘they said it will be fine’ yet I was miserable walking it but then, whammo it was fine. but our whammo never comes as we want, more like 3 mos. or more futher down the road and then we who hold tight carnivore, say OMG! I figgin’ get it now! yea hard times thru alot of it what I was told would come down and what I actually experienced in my zc path :wink:

this is what makes a life’s work in progress for no matter what we wanna achieve in a life a very hard block to many of us. I somehow ‘weedle’d my way’ thru and found what I required but only after alot of yrs not ever ‘getting it’ ya know.

tough stuff on changes for us all


I will try to supress it while I am writing here then!

I will criticize the hell of out myself silently!

But it’s hard… Oh my. Me and self-censuring. I can’t promise anything but I will try!


that I fail. I am aware. That was my plan and I failed it every day lately. But you don’t wanna hear about it.

No, I calculated the cost of coffee. I can’t afford coffee, I am an idiot to drink it, it’s useless and cause zillion problems, it’s unhealthy. But I stop here, okay? :slight_smile: I will have hard talks with myself silently.

If I don’t BAN coffee, I WILL drink a few or several before my first meal. It’s inavoidable. I always do that. So I ban it but it’s the right thing to do anyway. Too bad I have almost zero control over these things.


NO NO never meant that. You post all the time as you feel. Not a darn thing wrong with just that.

key being, it is time TO SEE YOUR WRITINGS and acknowledge then an enact changes and how you can proceed forward to dump them.

no action or enactment for change means you aren’t hearing yourself.

time for just that :slight_smile:


it is avoidable. simple as that.

again I say time to face what you want and only thru action does any change come :slight_smile:

hold strong S and this gives ya crap to think about you and if you want change, what are you willing to do thru a few small changes to make it happen. No one ever can or will do it for ya :wink: so enough is enough and put some of your personal effort into some small change or ?

All up to you only but we can support whatever it takes for you to get there :100:

(Megan) #220

I think it can be helpful to own our choices, rather than feel like we are victims of a weak will, or something similar. Can’t is a word I’d love to see removed from our vocabulary.