It’s hard to get it that cheap here, the double of that has better chances (of course we don’t buy that, we go for the cheapest one on sale). The same for cheese. And $400 is a normal lower salary, many people have WAY less per month per person.
BUT butter is vital so we keep eating it. In moderation. Fortunately we don’t need much.

Oh eggs, the holiday passed and we can buy them easier again. Good.

Sunny day again :slight_smile:


@JJFiddle, yea stinks on those ‘wings’ for ya. got the cheapy cut version of what a ‘wing’ is from that place, I so feel ya on what you get when ya do order out :slight_smile: eat at home, oh yes our wings are way diff. than what they put on a plate for us LOL

HI, glad ya checked in!! very cool on that UVB light you guys got. happy you are getting some results with it. Carnivore variety!!! So many say ‘meat protein’ is so boring when in full truth, omgosh we got tons to eat truly LOL Nothing like being zc prepared and full freezers for us!!


You are ‘feeling you’ now in big zc truth. Your time on plan you are not a newbie anymore and you are hitting the longer years on plan in a new light. Our bodies tell us what it needs and it can be very insightful of our bodies directing us toward certain food intake, be it amt of food on our plate or the source of that meat protein, seafood, fish and fowl. All have different nutrients that our bodies can unconsciously be drawn to and if we just ‘eat our zc’ day as we need, we win this whole she-bang to the ultimate. You said it FB, there is a big difference I feel also with our lifestyle on how ‘dieting mantra’ like intuitive eating and more come into play. Great post!

not a thing wrong with that! ya want it, enjoy it, eat your fill, you did the zc day best for you! congrats on doing so well Azi!

I never heard of it :sunny:
Glad you loved it. A product you purchased already made or ordered out at a restaurant? cause if you made it I am sure there would be no applesauce in it HAHA

Yea the irony of carnivore right? Eat all you want of the meat proteins and dump the carbs and health and vitality to life comes back to us. We can ALL get our butts ‘skinny’ on any darn diet, but do we get ‘true change’ to our bodies on all darn diets? Nope :slight_smile: With zc we have actual truth and freedom and we gain clarity and an actual more natural life physically. Well I see it that way along with tons more carnivores :slight_smile: I tell ya Alec, you hold plan and the next yrs on plan even more good comes to us.----------and then that irony of the name of the crisps. THINS! yea right :wink:

---------------------I think guys that is a key to zc. Time on plan. Always has been but one of ‘the hardest’ parts about this lifestyle change but at that same time, we gain so much physical healing and repair to our bodies so this lifestyle shows many of us quickly----once thru dreaded adaptation times we all must walk personally—that big change is comin’ at us. Just keep the lifestyle and wait for those changes to hit us. They will hit all of us but it can take alot more time on this lifestyle for some big true insight on what it will give each of us. It isn’t something we can ‘give to any other carnivore’, their time on this lifestyle. Yes we can tell you what longer term carnivores do experience and our walk with yrs under one’s belt on plan, but when one experiences it, WOW. It is like, hey that ol’ timer said this might go down like this and it kinda did!! Our changes are ‘felt’ interally to us ya know and only when the personal zc timeline gives it to you is the only time you can truly understand the strength of benefits that come to us.

Yesterday I was SO hungry at around 8:30am. Thinking make eggs? omelet? fry sausage and ‘eat breakfast’ and then I thought, screw that. I put 1.15lb of burger into meatloaf form, added 2 eggs to bind and shoved that in the oven. I woofed the whole thing. Only part I could not eat was the 2 last bites of meat LOL I thought, omgosh, don’t waste those, eat them, but I physically could not put one more bite of meat into my tummy! Ahhhh, that is what zc gives me! total satisfaction and total satiation. Well even eating that so early no way I could handle ribs so I just shoved those in the freezer for now. Second meal. I wasn’t really hungry at all but I did have a steak defrosted but no way on that, so I just ‘grazed’ a little. Few salami slices. Tin of sardines and some thing else I know I ate, heck I can’t remember :slight_smile:

But I woke up this morning feeling more icky sicky in the tummy. Like more nausea. Family been ‘feeling off’ a bit too. Hmmm. No one is sick really but just a tad low ya know. I woke up not wanting to eat any time soon. I will play the day by ear. Might be an OMAD later in day with that steak cause food is not a draw to me at all right now. I did take 2 sinus to help the throb, achy behind my eyes. bleck.

so as usual my Karen zc eating is kinda off track in a small way but I know, I don’t stay icky for long so I will be on eating up all the zc I love sooner than later :slight_smile: I do have a small hankering for alot of good ol’ shrimp. but guts right now are saying don’t do it, and I won’t til I feel I really wanna eat anything today.

ok, off to see how the zc day rolls for me. Hold plan everyone, good things come on carnivore to those who work the plan and hang on for the long ride!


Probably even I could live on mostly meat if I could choose and get any kind… They are VERY different :smiley: Turkey, pork, ruminant, salmon, some white fish, organs - they are all very different and offers variety. Even when I got bored of “meat” in general (more like pork, my main meat), it still didn’t include fish and smoked stuff as they were nothing like what I got bored with. They aren’t nearly enough but that’s why I have eggs and dairy too. And I always can eat at least a bit pork, especially now. So “this and that”, I did that a lot in need. Or went off but that wasn’t so good, I dislike being kind of forced to do it due to not having enough variety on carnivore. That’s a mistake. But I got better I hope. We will see, it’s carni day #6 now (and keto #14 but only had one experiment day not close to carnivore).

I still have my tiny seafood in the fridge, we will eat it soon but I am fine with other things right now…

Of course, it’s very individual and no variety could console me if I had no eggs and sour cream… Other people must have this relationship with plant food (I had that in the past. yeah, I eat a tiny bit here and there but it’s not vital. I just can do it and it’s very nice. and I need that tiny relaxation, probably. I don’t know, my inner rebel is pretty silent lately, probably regenerating from December. or playing with new recipes, I actually do that now :slight_smile: But I can’t imagine living without eggs).

It’s 3:23pm, I had a small lunch and a snack this far :slight_smile: Half a Scotch egg (there wasn’t more), a few eggs, egg milk with coffee… And crunchy carni microwave biscuits! Microwave is tricky, they burn easily but it didn’t make them bad yet. I only use cheese and raw yolks now, don’t have hard-boiled ones and they are hard to mix in anyway. Some flavoring too. lovely. Cheese is amazing, making these air filled lace objects in the microwave :smiley: The result is quite cheesy but I like that now.

We decided to go shopping next weekend, we need more and more items…

Our sunny walk was very, very nice. My muscle ache is worse than yesterday :smiley: Oh well, at least I did my workout again :smiley: It’s not too bad.

Theoretically. I can’t lose on any diet according to my experiences. I know I can if I do it RIGHT but that is tricky… Not like I worry about it now. I focus a bit on various things but I am still patient. And enjoy my good mood and desire to do things. And wait for more energy (do too, I need exercise for that, for example). It’s not very low now but could be much better.

But losing slowly still would be nice.

We will see. Things are still so easy now but I got back my appetite for biscuits and desserts so I felt I do a bit too much work in the kitchen despite it’s Saturday and Alvaro cooks his own food… I still baked bread for him and making my biscuits and jelly fluff on top… I skipped the cream whipping part, my fluff has sour cream now! It’s NOT sweet at all but I suppose it still will be nice. Cream is nicer, sure but this is nice too. It has some butter inside as well.
It will be good to have simpler days eventually but it’s good I have appetite. It’s so odd when I don’t desire anything, just eat. Okay for a day but longer term it’s not something I like.

(Robin) #184

Welcome back! So great to see your post today. Glad you’re over the hump.
You got this!


ya said the key thing. it is not sustainable. it ‘restricts’ kcals and actual nutrients the body must must must have. best animal protein for minerals/nutrients and animal fat beats veggie like a bean or avacado any old day for what it brings with it…then ya got ‘a diet’ as in ‘eat this way only’. come on, no one can ‘be moderate intake on sugar items’ and go long term…NO ONE can do it long term. Yes a few but you said it, if you do it right and forever. We all been there done that and for 95% of the people can’t hold ‘a diet’ and they gain back. All in moderation, yea right :slight_smile: on this food of today? maybe back in olden days when food wasn’t jacked thru chem additives and hyped thru botany for more sugar content in each bite or ??

‘Diets’ as preformed don’t heal or change or repair the body. They just starve ya skinny IF YOU can hold it long enough and most can’t LOL but some can. I did til I could not :slight_smile:

Change comes thru nutrition. Carnivore gives us just that and repair to the body instead of forced kcal restriction or manipulation of starvation factors and more.

key being ‘Keto Plan’ can do this for many also which is why they eat the good meat and good meat fats and they do well on limited veggie carbs, but it is right on the doorstep of zc so it is a great plan if one fits in their well…but key to both plans, you do them for life. Simple as that.

so ‘restricted dieting’ plans don’t work. they won’t balance out the nutritional and vits and minerals one needs to ‘rebalance the body’ cause one is only focused on ‘eat only this’ to hold into some ‘kcal restriction’ void. A useless factor.

heck most on carnivore can eat easily into the 3,000 kcal range and heal and be so healthy and satisfied, then ya got someone doing ‘a controlled 1350 kcal only per day’ for their height and desired weight and they are starving nutritionally so…

diets are diets. not sustainable for most. hence the regains we all see but Keto Plan and into carnivore we ‘feed’ the body as it needs and we change…all to that better and long term sustainability. Ask the Keto People here :slight_smile: years and into the 10 plus years they do fine cause they hold their eating lifestyle and CAN cause they are OK with it. They feel wonderful. They are nourished as it suits them and have ‘no wanting’ from the body.

ok just chat on it all :slight_smile: just how I see it and read it over the years I been ‘researching’ how in the heck to ‘diet’ and keep results :slight_smile:

(Doug) #186

Have to laugh, Fangs - ‘moderation’ is hardly even a real word for many of us. :smile: I think that some people can do it, but they tend not to end up on keto boards or needing metabolic intervention in the first place.


4 meals, no, definitely won’t have more, I already ate too much :smiley: Well it depends on how one look at it. I am fine with a maintenance day after this week :slight_smile: Especially with my many meals a day (sometimes there was 2 but usually more). It was a nice indulgent day eating wise. Guesstimation says fat is a tad below 150g, protein is a tad above.
I ate everything. Fluffy dessert (definitely needs cream. but it was fluffy, I like that), sponge cake with salmon spread, pork chuck roast, coffee with egg milk and yep, dry sausage is the perfect last bite for me still… I opened the great one with 95% pork, salt and some spice. The E nutricore one :slight_smile: The taste is a bit odd, I am used to a different one but it’s good I guess. A tad sharp but I had sponge cake for it too, that’s needed, couldn’t eat it alone without problems. A bit sweet but paprika is sweet. Nice stuff. I am just very attached to a specific kind of dry sausage, that is exactly what I prefer and this is a bit different.

I feel super full now but I wasn’t satiated until the last bites.

I am the embodiment of satisfied laziness at the moment.

@Fangs: It has nothing to do with sustainability in my case. I don’t lose fat on keto. I don’t lose fat on carnivore by default, probably. I need tricks. And if something is not sustainable, I can only do it for ONE day (I don’t do losing and gaining it back, I don’t lose in the first place). So I always have sustainable diets and I lose fat or not (almost always not. I only had success when I was even fattier).
My hedonism and not caring very much about my looks meant that I never was ready to sacrifice anything for fat-loss. And I never thought being fat has a serious impact on my health. Of course it would be better leaner… But I don’t even have muscles to show off yet…

I stop, I am too satisfied and lazy, I don’t care about fat-loss at the moment.

Of course many people can do it (with the right attitude and food choices. but any food may be fine if one already knows what they should do, determined and maybe has some too addictive personality…? I surely changed a lot)… Why not? I guess I always will eat sugar and surely won’t do it in a crazy way all my life. I already don’t do it like that most of the time :slight_smile: Just a tad and it’s perfect, I don’t desire more. Of course I don’t do that often as it doesn’t mix with carnivore… But on my off days I may eat hundreds of grams using starch but sugar? That’s minimal. More wouldn’t taste better but my body prefers it in moderation (it probably prefers it not at all but tough luck).

No, not forever, I just need to slim down. I am good at maintenance and while it wasn’t enough before as I never was slim so how I know if I can keep eating that tiny, now I know that close to carnivore I surely can eat that tiny and be satisfied. (I trust I can have my occasional higher-cal days still ;)) Anyway, I want more muscles and activity so I will be fine with my current natural energy intake. But if there is magic and I can maintain with more, that’s great. I surely can’t lose it with much so I do my best to eat as little as I comfortably can in the next months. I am very relaxed now (this is for attitude, not my diet) so my “comfortably can” have lots of days like today but I will try harder later. And if I do everything right on carnivore, I won’t overeat. If not, I won’t ever lose fat on it… My body doesn’t waste precious energy. So the condition of my fat loss is the same on any diet, I am very sure of it - except I actually can be satiated and satisfied if my plant carbs are minimal.
But it’s not about fat-loss anyway… I have bigger goals.

It’s idiotic to starve. Sane people smoothly and easily losing fat on high-carb and keeping it off don’t do that either.
And starving carnivores (surely some exist) do it wrong too. It’s some general thing, nothing to do with the diet, actually. Of course there is some correlation, if I could starve, I could do it only on carnivore and never on high-carb, for example but a volume eater may starve easier with low-cal plants. But let’s not talk about obviously wrong practices. They are bad on any diet. Even if some people do it successfully and without much harm. It must be quite rare. I don’t judge, starving is very simple and effective for a healthy person but yeah, quite bad still. I only starved once (I had no money. I can’t starve without outside force) and couldn’t care less about gaining it back (of course not more, no idea how people gain back more… maybe they ruin their metabolism, okay. my metabolism is too flexible for that if my starvation period is short), I was so happy to eat… But I never was vain.

I am very, very sure that a different, restrictive diet for fat-loss may work. It makes perfect sense to me, actually… Maintenance is super easy to me, after all. I don’t say one should necessarily STAY on their original diet but losing fat with a stricter diet and then using some good sustainable one for maintenance sounds good. I would do that if

  1. I could do anything non-sustainable for more than 1.5 days
  2. I wouldn’t want to be at my strictest possible diet for other reasons.
    I (but I can’t be the only one) need WAY more strictness for fat-loss than for maintenance. As I need to be at the top of my maintenance calories for maintenance but below the bottom of it for fat-loss. And my maintenance range is big. I am fine in my range but going lower is super restrictive, on any diet. I start to experience exceptions on/near carnivore but I need to be careful and keeping my average there is still tricky.
    And I don’t even try it now, I just eat until I get satiated and we will see. I am a tad careful with fats and other not satiating items… But it’s usually chill.
    (But I REALLY need to skip lunch for fat-loss already… And experiments. TMAD has good experiment value too but I almost always need to skip lunch for TMAD as well. OR I need to focus on my macros more but that sounds too restrictive to me.)

I always had nutritious diets, that never was the problem I would think :slight_smile:
But I saw people eating unwell. On high-carb and on keto alike.

(Why did I write this? Oh well.)

(Karen) #188

Alarm at 7.30am this morning in prep for CrossFit. Meds BP and black coffee with my books for 45mins. Then off to CF. 28 in session today and i am getting so much better ar dealing with high numbers of people. Teams of 3 this morning. Another hard workout but yep, it was fun. Stopped to chat afterwards and while everyone was digging in to carby treats for Coach’s birthday i sat with a black coffee… oh they think i have such will power hahaha … i dont feel its will power power any more, just not interested in the stuff.

This workout was twice through.

Returned home to finish a chapter of one of my books and had brunch about 12.15 of 4 chicken thighs that i seasoned with piri piri. The skins were so crispy and lovely.

Took Raymond shopping and then we popped to the lock cafe where all he doggos bring their hoomans and we like chatting to the doggos. Just had a black tea then dropped Raymond off and retuned home again.

Dinner was a nice ribeye steak.

Followed later with tin of tuna. Ate some cheese too.

Still got tight lats and glutes but completed the 100 push ups and 50 each delt side and front raises.

Feeling good.

(Judy Thompson) #189

Beautiful crispy chicken thighs @Karen18!
I have some in the freezer I’ll get to probably tomorrow evening if we’re home for dinner.
@Shinita in contrast to your experience I’ve always found that however I lose weight, that is how I have to continue to maintain it. My last big weight loss was 2002-2007, in a plan where everything was weighed and measured with very strict rules. I finally had to quit because the fat content was too low and I was always hungry - and I gained back the 80 lbs plus another 10 within just a few months. My next “maintenance plan” didn’t cut it! And yet there are people on that woe who maintain for 25 years, weighing and measuring every meal. Go figure!

Internet has been frustratingly intermittent for about a month. (I canceled students this morning.) My sous vide depends on it but actually just to set and turn it off and on, so I ran in there Thursday to set it when hubby said wifi was on. It’s been on since then, giving error messages all day but still bubbling along with the brisket cooking at 131° and will be done tomorrow night. 2 bags will go straight in the freezer and the 3rd reserved for this week. Meanwhile there’s chicken, shrimp, and pork chops for main meals.
The new fridge will be delivered Tuesday. It’s ¾ fridge and ¼ freezer the way we’ll set it, and then we have the new dedicated freezer in the laundry room. We planned for this for quite some time while nursing along Mom’s 2 old side by side units.
However it doesn’t seem like I would need as much fridge space if I didn’t have his veggies to store - much of the fridge is veggies, bread, desserts etc while most of the freezer holds meat! Surprise!
The right side of the bottom French door spaces is convertible though - so we’ ll see, maybe I’ll be creating another freezer space eventually.

Tonight again, the 2 restaurant gigs, and tomorrow we’ll be meeting with a web designer after we play church. We are already as famous as we want to be lol - but we can put a QR code with the URL on the business card and the tip jar so folks can see where we’ve been and watch a video if they want to. So - why not :blush:?

I fixed a simple lunch today of burger and bacon. Hit the spot. This morning I had 2 hard boiled eggs with a little mayo. Coffee with collagen powder and cream. Easy day.

(Alec) #190

Made it myself, and a very small amount of applesauce… 2 teaspoons-ish. Did have some sugar in it (gasp!), and I really tasted it when I ate the dish… it was sweet! Next time I do it, I will put in less apple sauce… in fact I have been intending on making my own apple sauce: need to do that, will have no sugar and just the natural sweetness in the small amount of apple.

(Linda ) #191

Welcome back good to hear your doing so well… I dout I could get my husband to do a fast with me not that im doing fasts since going Carnivore…Getting him to mostly meat dishes, others with low carb sauces and the odd keto desert is the best I can do.


Sure agree! for many of us who don’t fit into ‘moderation’ at all never can wrap our brains around ‘everything in moderation’ works LOL

Great feeling isn’t it? some thinking you are white knuckling and got the willpower of the Gods and it is only that you don’t even want that crap :slight_smile: A nice little secret we keep on our eating lifestyle many will never understand LOL

those food pics are nice and your wings are fat little balls of yum.

YUP!!! My enemy was 70 lbs lost and gained. Unless one can hold the plan on how they lose the weight forever, one can not keep it off. So understand ya JJ!

Yea, why not on the tip jar and more on your biz cards. I think that is very cool :slight_smile: you are very busy and have a solid career that I can see but jacking up the info on you guys is always a great idea.

@Shinita, you are a unique unicorn for sure :slight_smile: :slight_smile: cool

You made that!! :100: very cool
yes, any sugar in anything when we are carnivore we can taste like a big slap in the face :wink: I can smell a molecule of sugar a mile away now HAHA

---------------woke up feeling alot better this morning. who knows but I feel more solid good than icky bad so I will take it.

I ate a 1 lb Tbone yesterday. omgosh I attacked the bones and stripped them clean, eating as much of that bone as I could. Oh yea I can gnaw with the best of them. But I ate only 3/4 or so of the meat. Put 2 big finger pieces into fridge to nibble today. I just could not hound down the whole thing as usual. That is all I ate for the day. except a few bites of hubby’s sirloin steak he cooked for dinner for himself.

but this morning I do have food on my mind so first meal I think regular ol’ cheeseburgers. 2 big ones, probably near 3/4 lb of meat and dinner tonight, I am running to the little smokehouse store down the road and buying WINGS! I see @Karen18 post those wing pics and I always want them when I see them. Not something I eat alot anymore but by gosh this morning I am getting me some. Will post pic of them later when I cook them!!

ZC strong all


I don’t dare to track yesterday, I got hungry again, it was a crazy day… Note for self, zillionth time: I shouldn’t neglect meat. There were probably other reasons, I have a high-cal day here and there anyway but it’s very noticeable that when I eat little meat, my body decides at late evening or at night that it’s just not good enough and no amount of protein and fat help with the feeling I miss something. I suppose it’s some nutrient my eggs and dairy can’t give me but why it must be on the same day, no matter what?
But it’s fine. Today will be different. I wait as much as I comfortably can and I plan a fatty day :slight_smile:

Made my tray, yep, definitely a fatty day.

Pork jowl, pork chuck, pork sausage… Sponge cakes and the liquid part of my pork soup (I had to look up again what broth and stock are… well this is definitely neither as it has nothing to do with bones).

This is very little meat of course but beautiful big turkey wing bases are roasting in the oven :slight_smile: I made egg pudding too.
Meanwhile Alvaro completely avoids meat but more for me that way… It’s almost sure he will eat one turkey piece (the smallest one), probably on Tuesday while I eat the 3 big ones, one per day. The biggest one is about a pound, I keep forgetting how much the bone weigh.

I like macro shots better but well, I need to get the hand of it if it’s food instead of plants… There is so much beauty there, one day I will be able to show it. I still can show off the 100mm macro lens, my fav.


They are stunning!!! :smiley:

ALL the fowl skin is not crispy at all if I make it. Never managed to unlock the secret but I never tried hard either. I can get off them from the meat and fry/bake them, it’s easy but so much extra time for a few tiiiny pieces? I don’t always do that.
(I should figure out what to do with them and stop whining about my desires and results being too far away.)

I don’t know what I will do about the turkey ones yet. But that skin is quite thick so it needs a ton of extra time to get crunchy. If I work on it extra, crispiness isn’t enough, I want it 100% crunch! I know skin can do it!

It’s so scary and strange to me. Alvaro is the one who gains very easily but even he needs a lot of time to gain 10lbs - and he never ever gains much more as he hates having a tiny pot belly so he simply loses it quickly again. Simply but not without some suffering so he just stopped it, now he simply eats the right amount so he doesn’t ever gain (there is a few pounds of weight changes in both direction but that’s normal).
I needed extreme sugar and fat loaded overeating for a year to gain 2lbs. I suspect it’s a bit easier now but just eating wild for a few weeks can’t do anything noticeable. But I am still chubby, it’s not like keeping a slim figure! But maintenance is good. Losing fat , on the other hand is seemingly plain impossible even with my best efforts, data collecting, woe changes and everything for more than a decade (the best efforts weren’t for a decade, my best efforts are tiresome and not hedonistic enough. but I did try to some extent almost all the time).

I am SUPER hopeful now though. When I stuck to carnivore for weeks, some tiny fat loss started. With my stable weight even such a short time result is noticeable and I believe reliable.
And then Alvaro’s big accident came and I suddenly gained a lot without eating much, crazy things exist in this world… Never lost that again. And it’s annoying because I ate way more carbs and did almost no effort and still lost when I was this weight way before keto… I changed I suppose. Or my body want to make me motivated to give it what it wants. I can imagine that, my body acts like something with a brain (and actually, it has a brain as it’s my body but still, my mind is me, not my body… but it probably works with my unconsciousness to achieve its goals conflicting with mine. it is winning but I can do better).
I just hope I have a tiny bit of more muscles now.

Okay, I heard about such people too but probably forgot, it’s crazy. And I tracked a lot in the last several years but I took breaks, eyeball things (much more accurate than my kitchen scale sometimes especially since it’s very, very crazy. its little leg buds got damaged and while it still has a part of each, it lost its already not great precision) and carnivore food is usually pretty easy to track… Though not always.
But I definitely won’t do that much longer. A few more months, maybe. It’s not fun. But I am curious and still didn’t find my easy to follow, effective and nice sweet spot.
But if I just want to skip tracking, I know that a pound of fatty meat with some eggs and little dairy is a good base :slight_smile: And tracking has about zero effect on my macros, at least immediately. My tracking is a scribe, not doing the decisions, just noting things. I do like to use the information to plan better but my plans and whatever happens with my day, those are two, often quite far away things. I am great at messing up plans and I like this freedom. But sometimes they do help, my planning may show me that my leftover food won’t be right and I better cook some more meat :slight_smile:

I stop reading back, I didn’t write to bring braindump again :rage:
{You all can stop reading if you did until now. I wondered about Alvaro in the next part. It bothers me that his maintenance mean lots of hunger on workdays.}

But both Alvaro me me, I guess, use the same diet for maintenance and losing fat… I only can do sustainable, enjoyable diets (each and every time I liked the food more than before, maybe not exactly on keto but I do liked the food, I just missed a few things especially my vegs. but that problem is no problem anymore) - and he used his normal diet too but with a drastically lowered energy intake, each and every time he lost fat (smoothly and quickly, I am almost envious. but I probably would get the same results if I would suffer hunger. NOPE). So we actually have no experience with losing on a different diet but the fat-loss part is always way stricter for him (big deficits are tough for most people. impossible for me). Even his diet changed a lot during the times I know him but it’s another thing, he always lost fat with his actual one, first time with his original one that made him fat, he just worked at night and spared his food money to buy a monitor for his computer, very little was spent on food. Having a young, healthy enough body, it was highly effective and very quick. And being vain (and young and healthy enough), he never got fat again. He never wondered much about nutrition, probably some as he is very health-conscious now and good luck to avoid the topic when one is living with me… He has very strong views about added sugar, seed oils and a bunch of other things and I whole-heartedly agree. He had his “limited meat (not every day!) is the polite way” spiel but I think he mellowed out already (he never said anything against my way of eating though and I totally ate meat every day at that point). I suppose it was quite hard on him when he did some usual HCHF right after he slimmed down… It’s way easier now with more muscles, bigger activity and way better woe. And he says he doesn’t need to stay hungry for long on his free days, the problem is that he can’t have his lunch at the right time at work. There is no break there as work ends at 2pm. But he is often already hungry since hours then and about 1 more hour to get home (shopping, post office often happens before). I feel so sorry for him. And a bigger breakfast doesn’t help, it merely makes him fat. And he definitely want a decent sized warm lunch in peace, I get it. Tiny meals don’t work for him. So he suffers 1-4 hour hunger a day while doing some physical activity (I am starving if I do that when already hungry). And it can’t be helped until he works there. But he doesn’t complain, he is used to it and it’s not so very bad to him. Me who can’t stand hunger, still feel very sorry and want to help but can’t… We experimented with very different breakfasts to see if one is better and we got some tiny differences but not much. Nothing last 9 hours most of the time. It’s a very long time between breakfast and lunch. I am amazed he can be satiated for 5-8 hours… No meal of mine lasts for that long except if it’s OMAD sized. Maybe a few times a year, even I have very odd days.

@JJFiddle, YAY for new fridge!!! Ours is still working but I get a lots of money now… Still don’t want to spend it needlessly… We will see but we will start looking at fridges seriously. It’s not easy. I have but a FEW very reasonable wished but getting them in one fridge? :smiley: Not that easy. One reasonable thing (open freezer shelf) was only found in the fridges from one company (in one hypermarket) if I remember correctly… But I need an open shelf, I use my freezer (2 tiny open shelves) ALL the time! I won’t open doors or pull out drawers or whatever is there nowadays ALL the time…
Bigger freezer, nice! Nowadays that’s normal, apparently, older fridges have small ones though.

We never put bread into the freezer (traditionally bread is baked and eaten for a week… we still do that unless Alvaro is quicker), desserts usually got inhaled immediately too… But veggies, yeah, they belong the to fridge. Normally. I am not tolerant with them. Now Alvaro stores them in the basement as we just don’t have space for them in the fridge. We keep our cooked food there, among others, they take up a big space. We have a radish in the basement now as it’s long and didn’t fit the fridge :smiley:

Nice. :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:
And you are right, why not to do a bit more if you can?

Now that you say this, yeah, that sounds tricky and just too dangerous.
But ONE thing I fancy in moderation (and just occasionally, not as an every day thing)? I usually can do that. After some training. When I am not hungry. If it has a strong flavor and is satisfying enough in small amounts, it doesn’t even takes much or any effort.

I used to say that everything is fine in the right amounts and that amount is sometimes zero. (I don’t remember my exact wording.)
I have plenty of “abstinence, no problem, I can live without them just fine” items (some are the ones where I would eat insane amounts without abstinence and they are usually sugary. good thing I don’t ever want them, I just can’t stop eating them if I start) but plenty of “in moderation” ones too. And other, less fortunate types. But I don’t feel irresistible desires towards wrong items, at least not often. NO IDEA what I would want after months of (near) carnivore. Maybe I will be miss things like crazy, who knows? Probably not but I think I will start to miss things a bit… But I can’t possibly predict it.

I just enjoy the decent amount of chill what I have now.

(Karen) #195

@Shinita to get those crispy skins is simple really. Preheat oven to 170° fan assisted or 180° if not fan asssted. Dont ask me gas number lol havent had a gas oven in a long time. Put thigh on a rack on a deep roasting tray (i always line mine with foil to make cleaning easier and also easy to pour juices over the thighs when i get hem on the plate … just keeps things easier to wash up). Cook for 40 mins and they will be perfect. If i dont season with piri piri, cajun or jerk seasoning then i will put a thin layer of lard or butter over the skins with some spinkling of salt. The skins always turn out crispy… and yummy.

Up just after 8am alarm … was a bad restless night so i allowed myself a few extra minutes rest. Meds BP and coffee in the lounge with books then did some jig saw. Got that finished today.
Brunch was 6 or 7 cooked cold chicken drumsticks. They were okay, i had picked them up reduced at Tesco yesterday and they had to be eaten today. Had some cheese + a couple of mugs of beef stock.

Going out dancing this evening with Raymond but not to same venue as last week. We know the organisers of this one and their music is good and i know they will be over the moon by us turning up. We havent seen them in so long …pre covid! A lovely couple. Its further away and we will be praying the weather holds as my phone states there may be disruption due to snow! :open_mouth:

(Robin) #196

Not surprised you chose that puzzle. Looks like you in one of your personally tailored dresses!


We don’t have gas here, only electricity. Well the original thing here used a… Liquified petroleum bottle, I hope you understand even if I use the wrong term. But we only use electricity. And open fire outside sometimes, it gives a nice smoky flavor to things.
I have a mini grill oven :slight_smile: Perfect for baking and roasting anything I want so I just never got a proper, big oven. But my special clay pot doesn’t fit into it. Oh well, we barely ever used that.
This oven has a mystery range of temperature. It is below 90 Celsius and no information where is what. I can set it to 90 or “somewhere below”… I usually dry my freshly cracked walnuts on “a bit below 90”… But I would like to know more about that mystery range. Whoever designed it, didn’t know people like to know things or they were evil and wanted to hog the knowledge!

Foil… Never thought about that… I suppose I would just tear it into annoying pieces though but maybe not. Cleaning is easy except my fav deep big pot with EDGES. I never can clean that completely. But it’s fine :slight_smile: I have a little fight between reality and my somewhat mellowed out perfectionism but otherwise it’s all good. Maybe I will try. But I prefer to use very little foil. Though it’s not the worst garbage I suppose…

Power of preheating? As I never preheat for anything at all, why bother :smiley: Our bread doesn’t need it, sponge cake doesn’t need it, meat doesn’t need it but I have this skin problem. I definitely won’t overcomplicate things but I may be willing to put some tiny extra effort into this already…
I just bake chicken for… I forgot how long, more than an hour and the skin is still totally soft then.
I cooked the turkey for 90 mins :slight_smile: I got off the skin for the last 30 mins but it would need another 30 or more to be not soft, of course it’s a thicker skin that the chicken one :frowning:
And while I don’t explicitly coat it with fat, it inevitably get it from the pan, I do turn the pieces a few times and lots of fat is below, it coats the whole thing. So that part should be fine.

Maybe I am cursed. More like magically untalented. I can cook and bake, I am pleased with that - but a few details are problematic and I always fail. Like biscuits, I can’t make them crunchy (without a ton of cheese and drying it out like crazy) if my life depends on it, no matter what I use, I never could make crunchy carby biscuits either. They simply become SOFT. (Or charcoal in my childhood, I don’t remember if it was crunchy or crumbly charcoal, probably the latter considering it was my biscuit :D)
I am good at baking soft things, doesn’t matter if it’s mostly carbs or keto or carnivore. I don’t even need to try, it effortlessly become SOFT. Lots of people try so very hard to make gingerbread that is soft after making, it allegedly typically ends up super hard. I failed to make them hard, they became soft, obviously :slight_smile:
I remember all those crispy chicken thighs from my childhood… Maybe it was the oven. Or they poured fat on it, who knows? I need to get off the skin and fry/bake it for 30 more minutes and it gets good :slight_smile: But still don’t want to bother with that every time.

It’s just for fowl skin, my piglet got the crunchiest loveliest skin without much effort.

Okay, next time I preheat (for how long? as I wrote I never preheat) and maybe precoat with fat :wink: I have chicken thighs in the freezer :slight_smile:

And I actually understand preheating does this and that, I just never really needed it for anything. Lots of things in recipes are so pointless to me, even the ones where I understand the reason. I ignore them and my food usually turns our great.

Oh nice jigsaw puzzle! Lots of pink flowers to make it harder but not too much :smiley: Though if the background has a gradient, that makes it even easier…

I should grab some of my own puzzles too… They are small, not much time and it provides an enviroment other things don’t and I can think about things differently than during walks or writing…


I tracked.
Yesterday was a double 200 day, I was just a tad below it regarding fat and protein… I was hungry, okay?
Today I decided to be very subtle with protein… And I did kind of good, OMAD with a little bite of turkey later, I didn’t eat more turkey… 95g protein. How anyone eats less I barely can comprehend… 132g fat. Good day eating wise. I only got hungry at 4pm.

I run out of all my fatty stuff except my sausage but even that is more protein rich than usual. 25% protein and only 42% fat in weight. The normal seems to be 45% fat and 20% protein for dry sausages. But as it’s really fatty and flavorful, I only use it in smallish amounts. I pretty much jumped it today, still only 60g :slight_smile:
So I expect lean days. Good. As long as they don’t get too lean. I will plan a bit.

And I started my salt experiments. I ate 8g salt right before lunch. maybe not my best idea, it felt so odd and forced :smiley: But I ate and felt good again. Probably due to my very good hydration today (and zero sodium since last evening) I didn’t need to drink a ton of water with it, 6dl was enough.
I feel nothing different yet, no wonder, it requires multiple days.
I just want to see if I truly hate the keto recommended amount of salt. I only went close to it when my main meat was salted smoked pork on carnivore and it felt horrible and I got a salt aversion. I was always quite happy with ~5g salt a day, I seem to automatically keep this amount. Even if I eat twice as much, my salt intake doesn’t raise much as far as I know (I rarely measured but when I ate a ton, it was either roast with very low sodium content as I need the least for them… and I don’t add much salty processed stuff then - or I ate sweets galore with zero added salt and very little natural sodium. but even if I ate bread, another item I was prone to overeat, it had little sodium). And I salt my food more if I had little sodium and less if I had more so things get balanced out nicely. It’s very hard for me to stray from my 5g salt a day except if I fast or actually go and eat a bunch of salt.
There are various things allegedly/statistically connected to a higher salt intake so let’s see what is the case with me.

Maybe it’s the topic only but now I started to feel a burn again… I STILL can’t be sure if salt at once and salt distributed has the same effect, maybe I will try the latter too. It’s just way easier to eat it at once. It’s enough to remember it once a day :slight_smile:

(Linda ) #199

That required amount of sodium i on keto if your in ketosis, cos your body dumps it easily then esp if you drink alot


Yeah I know that is the explanation but the recommended amount is 10-15g while my ideal and natural amount is 5g, on every diet.
I don’t need more salt on keto at all and I suffer if I raise it. But as I only raised it once, I can’t be fully sure so I want more experiments.

I will try 1g too if I can pull it off :smiley:

I only accidentally tried zero. It was fun but surely not healthy as we do need sodium and I was in ketosis too (inevitable with 0 kcal) AND I actually felt weird in the end… But I learned (much later when I actually learned that electrolytes are a thing, it’s not something anyone told me in school or anywhere else) that I am among the ones who can handle zero sodium for a few days pretty well. Some people say they are way better at it and 10 days without sodium feels okay. HOW they function IDK, is it possible? Though so many things are possible… I only lasted for 3 days and there was no heat, much sweating, much drinking or anything. I did walk and it was summer but I avoid heat in summer as I feel I am dying there.

By the way, do anyone know HOW the carnivores not salting their food do it? How they function? What their sodium need do? Obviously everyone needs some amount of sodium but how can some people live with very, very little? While others salt their food generously and still need to take more? And I am in-between and feel a tad of a strange one among ketoers…