Newbie! trying not to tie myself in knots about getting keto perfect

(Ivy) #101

Ok. Today I only got about 70g but plus cheese, about 91 gr protein I guess I told myself right about the cheese !

(Eric) #102

All sources of protein count. Mine comes from a mix of meat, eggs, cheese and nuts. I find that on Keto it’s hard not to get enough protein and usually struggle with enough fat but have since realized not to worry about the fat as much. At least for me. The thing I focused on, especially until I was sure I was fat-adapted was less than 20g of carbs (I did net carbs which worked for me but not everyone does this). Even now I focus on keeping my carbs under 20g net most days. I have been less than perfect the last few weeks, which I am not completely happy about, even though I have had good weight loss as well. I think getting good results with 5-10g of extra carbs made me a little overconfident and I am tightening things up again. It’s been a long learning process seeing what my body can handle.

(Ivy) #103

I am always focused on 20 gr of carbs or less, regardless of what it seems. I ordered the wrong type of meat for protein and was prepping that today, along with gearing towards not knowing what to do with my goal of extended fasting today–so it was like it wasnt a choice to be eating, someone just told me i shouldnt do it, so I had unplanned eating.

(Butter Withaspoon) #104

You’d have to assume that’s ounces of steak or meat. I have no idea what an ounce is so it didn’t stand out to me.

Paul’s recommendation up the top of this thread gives 1 to 1.5g of protein per kg of lean body weight, then gives the example that a target of 100g of protein would be about 400g of meat. 400g is not ammonia toxicity because it’s meat not protein grams. Sometimes you have to do some thinking and apply judgement.

(Ivy) #105

Its a typo Sorry

(Ivy) #106

That makes so much sense now. This was why I messed up my whole day

(Butter Withaspoon) #107

Well that made me smile! Keep experimenting on yourself and building those muscles :muscle:

(Ivy) #108

I couldnt live with knowing I cant tell someone about keto for the rest of my life. Thats too much

(Ivy) #109

Ok. I found this:
If you are already lean, then it will be harder to lose fat without losing muscle, so you will need to pay particular attention to adequate protein

I AM ALREADY LEAN. except for i gained alot of belly fat exactly at 2 weeks in.
So, Im looking at 88 gr protein, as confirmed today. I also need calories alot because of being lean, not less. I am comfortable with this, if its right. Tell me if its not!

I found this:
If you are already lean and not really using keto to lose weight, then the answer is first of all to select fatter cuts of meat, and then cheeses and probably bulletproof coffee.
Why, what do other people do!? why this stuff? why cheeses and BPC?
Im using keto for all the benefits, including losing the weight I have in the form of excess fat.
Unfortunately I think I might be a bit holding some fat from a normal SAD lifestyle althugh I may look lean. Ive used BPC before, it didnt really affect me, negatively. Isnt there no difference if I eat a lean cut with tallow on top–thought that was literally the same thing? I know someone said on here that the fat from the jar is for extra energy, and I need it from the fatty cut of meat. Well whats the difference if its not from the exact same piece of meat? Still dont get this. IF THIS ISNT NECESSARY, IGNORE THE POST PLEASE

If you are already lean, then yes, your body will burn muscle when you lack the fat stores to provide your energy needs. You’ll also feel tired and cold and need extra sleep.
Is the total meaning here, that I need adequate calories?

I spongeb ob swear I get everything now
P.S. My doctor has always sucked and it sucks I had to wait for my new doctor, for which I am meeting next week.
Keto reminded me of my pediatric one, he was overweight, albeit very happy & delightful.

(Ivy) #110

I appreciate all helping me through holdups lol

I read docmuscles and now feel confident on keto.

Post-looking at memes, of course.

(Ivy) #111

You’re right, I tested thrice today. I thought I might have created a cheat meal today and didnt get into what is called GKI ketosis. I just tested now, looked at it wrong and thought it was still not a good reading, looked twice and saw I am now in a low level of ketosis. God news after all.
This does mean I either have a high carb tolerance or didnt exactly have a cheat meal, correct?

(Jane) #112

Search the forum for “chasing ketones”. Stop wasting money on test strips. It’s not giving you useful information.

At the rate you are going, you will burn yourself out, give up and declare “keto didn’t work for me”.

For some reason you WANT this to be hard, difficult to understand, and complicated. But it’s not.

Yes, there are a lot of myths and conflicting information on the net about a keto diet. Ignore it for now. Take @PaulL’s advice which you have completely ignored but is ALL.YOU.NEED.TO.DO at this point in your journey to reach your goal of fat-adaption.

There is nothing more you need to know right now - the rest is navel gazing. Yes, it is so simple it is boring. Find something else to focus your obsessions on.

My 2 cents. Feel free to ignore.

(Old Baconian) #113

I agree with @Janie that you are making this far more complicated than it needs to be. If you want to be in ketosis, the key is the low carbohydrate intake. Combine that with a reasonable amount of protein, and eat enough fat to satisfy your hunger. Those are the essentials; everything else is tweaks.

(Edith) #114

You don’t have to eat this stuff. I am dairy-free keto. Like I mentioned in my message to you yesterday, fatty cuts of meat and low carb veggies are all you need. It’s that simple.


I found so, so many things and I ignored almost all. At least this one isn’t stupid just a very bad idea for some people. Like me. If I was lean, I still would need to eat as lean as I comfortably can. Definitely no cheese or BPC, I don’t even want those items. And I eat fatty meat with fat-loss goals too.
Those were examples and mostly for people who eat little on keto so they would die of hunger if they kept at it (but first they would lose muscles as they don’t have the fat reserves). You don’t need to eat fatty meat or cheese or BPC if you are better without them.

If that works the same, I don’t think so. Rendered fat feels different to me and even fat tissue paired of with leaner meat isn’t nearly as good as eating properly fatty meat to begin with but for your body it shouldn’t matter, I would think. But if it does, it should tell you anyway.
There are very few specific general things for all ketoers. We are too different and should figure out things for ourselves.

I guess itás cheese because it’s fatty and easy to eat? It doesn’t even satiate many of us well so it’s easier to eat much of it?
And drinking calories is often easier.
But some of us find even serious overeating on keto ridiculously easy (I do it too often accidentally lately), we don’t need such tricks.

You need enough calories and enough protein to avoid muscle loss. That’s it. Eat well and don’t worry about your muscles. If you have muscles not needed for your current lifestyle, use them too as our body doesn’t stay muscular without a good reason even if we eat tons of protein and calories.

Yes, this. Do this, Ivy, get fat adapted, that may change things anyway. You can learn things meanwhile, sure, knowing is good (reading contradictory things is less so, there are mysterious things as well, we humans just don’t know everything) and if you have a real problem, ask but if your 2000 kcal days with meat don’t cause you problems (except triggering zillion questions), that should be enough for now.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #116

I am lean! Been lean all my life despite many efforts to ‘bulk up’ my upper body and arms. I just have to accept that I’m an ectomorph. I eat to macros 2:1 fat:protein grams and 4.5:1 fat:protein calories.

@IvyKCKO In another post I linked to a video by Ben Bikman where he explains why eating to a macro like I do makes sense. It’s all about mitochondrial ‘coupling’ and ‘uncoupling’. I’m 76 years old and have a full-time job at Walmart that involves being on my feet full shift and lots of lifting. I eat 2300-2700 kcals per day to maintain 145 pounds and 14-15% BF! I’m a fat burner! Lots of it.

I suspect that ectomorphism is an indication of an efficient fat burner. Be advised. :sunglasses:

(Ivy) #117

I know now :slight_smile:
Im at least 1 week into keto.

As with another’s post:
Shock to the system–
This even for relatively well fat adapted individuals, but especially for newbies.
For example, it’s very possible, and for newbies probable, that a single ‘cheat day’ or even a single meal once per week can undo the previous 6 days of strict keto eating. Resulting in a continuous roller coaster between ketosis and not, creating all the symptoms of carb withdrawal anew each week as glucose, insulin and ketones swing up and down inducing other hormonal reactions. It’s no wonder people who experience this sort of thing give up on keto.

(Ivy) #118

Ah, so 12-18 oz meat. ok. Ive been doing it ok, 60-130 around there usually on the higher end as these numebrs have come my way. I was going with as low as 55 before from what someone told me! I never ate that low, though

(Edith) #119

So, does that mean you are supplementing with extra fat?

Breakfast with Bubba

I am interested in the answer too (as I am too curious) but I can assure you it’s not necessarily needed. A very fatty cut can do the trick. The fattiest pork cuts, perhaps (not for all countries but we have pork up to ‘no meat, just fat and skin’ here)? I had some super fatty mutton once but most of it got rendered out. Pork does that too but very much stays inside and anyway, one can boil it, I like that though that’s my processed meat, not my staple meat. Pork shoulders are fatty enough for me, thank you.

And IDK if it’s “supplementing with extra fat” but there are fatty low-protein dairy items as well. That’s why I have my rare 2:1 fat:protein days without eating added fat or just a tiny bit (a few grams on a good day. or less). I actually consider cream and sour cream and mascarpone added fat. They satiate me just as bad as rendered fat.