Newbie! trying not to tie myself in knots about getting keto perfect

(Ivy) #81

Was this for those not yet fat adapted? Muscle loss was not found in the article–could you point it out?

(Ivy) #82

Thats quite a presentation. So whats the ideal intake of it can be so wide? I dont have an answer


What’s so hard about it? 1-2g/kg (LBM) is a common advice. Eat 2 if you are unsure. Or as much as you want to eat, 2000 kcal on keto normally includes enough protein, you get satiated using proper food and protein is automatically enough.
Focus on little carbs and that’s it, don’t even track if you can get away with it. Though you may be the type who likes numbers and is curious like me (I still couldn’t track all the time, it’s not proper life).

(Butter Withaspoon) #84

Maybe reading a number off a chart is more helpful. Of course there is NO EXACT number, even for one person. The body doesn’t quite work like that. But if you eat more than enough, and well less than toxicity then your body will throw away what it doesn’t need.

My muscles seem to grow with hardly any exercise. It’s weird the way they just get bigger when you eat good quality protein sources that naturally come with fat

(Jane) #85

No, Ivy.

You have been told a GAZILLION times that becoming fat-adapted takes two things - carbs less than 20 and T-I-M-E. Repeat TIME

Why do you keep wanting to make it to be something else?


a ton to read here :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

DO NOT overthink this.

It really IS ALL about a healthier food option eating plan which you are doing…if you nit pick down to a 1/2 teaspoon of some condiment or MCT oil or ??? you are gonna lose it LOL :scream_cat::stuck_out_tongue:

You are you. You lost some carb bloaty water lbs…you are switching over to eating a good healthy whole foods only keto plan (in other words don’t do keto meal bars, don’t suck down fake sweetener keto desserts etc) and eat fresh real food and honestly you will be fine.

You focus on good meat protein and that builds muscle and your body is going to change and heal and you will be on your way to truly a good long term healthier lifestyle!!

I didn’t read all of this thread but in the end, don’t go down that rabbit hole of being so controlled over this food or that IF YOU JUST eat real good wholesome food and drop the carb limit low, you are going to do real great changes and find good benefits for being a stronger person!

(Ivy) #87

I get the point, esp after I felt I couldnt tell yesterday whether I went over 20. Gotta be careful with it, and I want to do calisthenics, but not sure when to start it at this stage of things.

(Ivy) #88

Do I get any benefits from an extended fast for my 2 weeks into keto?


go by your body. your eating will change you and as you progress you want to do this or that, add in more activity as you heal the insides and the body…so ‘feel you’ in all this and you got it made in the shade :slight_smile:

a little over 20, no biggie at all if you are doing fine, feeling good, eating great food and happy…all things to come to you will be very positive changes, just hold the easiest way to move forward that suits you and you will be ok :slight_smile:


nah, key here is learning keto eating plan

that is your lifelong truth. you need to eat, we ALL do LOL so if you put that focus on a daily eating plan that works so well for you as your normal, then you can ‘play later on some fasting or more’ down the line but key first is ‘establish that keto eating plan’ that works for you then you can wangle around a bit and try other things but until that ‘keto eating plan’ is set in stone for your and starts to heal the body and change it, then you ‘kinda got nothing really’ ya know

you are not established as a keto eater with the body changes it entails, you are fasting to ‘try something extra’ which throws off the first, then you get a bit more crazy trying to fix ALL of it…best is be Keto Plan, eat and heal and change then ‘feel you’ as you see the best way forward for you but without that locked down eating keto plan, you don’t have a solid foundation to start kinda.

hope some of that makes sense :slight_smile:

(Ivy) #91

WHat Ive been asking here, or attempting to anyway, is if this applies to those not yet fat adapted?

If the high end or low end produces different results in any studies for muscle loss–or why people experience muscle loss?

Why people dont take questions seriously and repeat posts over and over to the dismay of readers. This is the opposite of how people learn in an online forum in many educational aspects.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #92

Fat adaptation is one of the consequences of eating keto, not a prerequisite. People lose muscle mass from eating too little protein whatever else they’re eating. But keto meshes better because our ancestors spent several million years eating mostly fat and meat so we are better adapted than a combo that includes more than trivial amounts of carbs. I’ve posted about this multiple times so won’t repeat here. If interested just search posts by me.

(Edith) #93

Protein need has nothing to do with whether on not one is fat adapted and everything to do with how much muscle mass you have already and what you want to do with it: maintain or gain. The chart provided is a guideline just like every other piece of information that has been provided. We can only provide guidelines because we are all different. You WILL have to take some time and find what works for you. That is what we call n=1. An experiment of 1 person.

I have a feeling you keep asking questions because we are not telling you what you want to hear. Unfortunately, I really don’t think anyone is going to tell you exactly what you want to hear. You will have take what’s been said, formulate your plan. If it works great! Then what will happen is something will change and you will have to tweak. I am willing to bet that everyone who has been on this forum for some time does not keto the way they did when they first started.

I would say that the people of this forum have actually been quite generous with their time answering your questions. At this point, you may want to find some books about the ketogenic diet. For example “The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living” by S. Phinney and J. Volek. It is very science heavy. It has lots of references you can delve into for greater detail. But, you will find that even that book provides generalities and guidelines. That’s just the way it is. If you don’t like things too sciency, you can try one of the many other keto books written for the lay person. They will also most likely deal in generalities. N=1 baby.

(Old Baconian) #94

Try it, and see what happens. Then you’ll know.

(Butter Withaspoon) #95

Yes it applies to fat adapted or not fat adapted.

Eat above the minimum protein requirement to provide the amino acid buffet that your body can eat from when building up the muscle, ligament, tendon and other connective tissues that you stressed that day (by lifting weights), or that need repairing and strengthening if a person was under eating protein in the past. I can’t see you because this is the internet, so I’m going to recommend 1.5g protein number, if I saw a muscled body builder you, and you told me you were constantly hungry I’d suggest 2g rate.

Both for fat adaptation and for protein cycling;
what you need to understand is this a sliding scale, not an on-off switch. The body uses the most complex feedback systems where there is feedback on the feedback controls. You can not know exactly what will happen if you take one body (you) and drop 100g protein in the top.

A major misunderstanding about body systems is that we are just like a cake where you pour the correct ingredients in the top and everything thing is perfect. It’s part of what got us into this mess of metabolic disregulation.

The constant concern about protein or muscle loss from the body seems strange because one of the reasons people like a well formulated ketogenic diet is because it PRESERVES MUSCLE MASS. But this is in the population as a whole. If you are a strength/body builder athlete you might feel more comfortable, more related to someone like *Thomas de Lauer (sp?) on you YouTube.

  • I wouldn’t recommend for regular folks with insulin resistance or diabetes FYI

(Ivy) #96

Sorry, what applies?

(Butter Withaspoon) #97

Scroll back 5 posts to see your question in response to my previous post

(Butter Withaspoon) #98

There you go - your post which was in reply to mine further up with the protein tables

(Ivy) #99

So 12-13 oz per day? Thats 340 gr which is over ammonia toxicity

(Eric) #100

I think that would be closer to 75g of protein. I used a ballpark LBM of 110 converted to KG which is 50kg. Multiplied by 1.5g of protein per 1kg of of LBM makes it 75g protein. Not sure where you are coming up with your numbers. I believe in another post you said your weight was around 130lbs so even with that number being all LBM which is not likely, your number is nowhere near 340g of protein. Even at 130lbs LBM you are looking at 89g of protein. If you went with 2g per kg that number would be higher.