Newbie! trying not to tie myself in knots about getting keto perfect

(Edith) #114

You don’t have to eat this stuff. I am dairy-free keto. Like I mentioned in my message to you yesterday, fatty cuts of meat and low carb veggies are all you need. It’s that simple.

#115

I found so, so many things and I ignored almost all. At least this one isn’t stupid just a very bad idea for some people. Like me. If I was lean, I still would need to eat as lean as I comfortably can. Definitely no cheese or BPC, I don’t even want those items. And I eat fatty meat with fat-loss goals too.
Those were examples and mostly for people who eat little on keto so they would die of hunger if they kept at it (but first they would lose muscles as they don’t have the fat reserves). You don’t need to eat fatty meat or cheese or BPC if you are better without them.

If that works the same, I don’t think so. Rendered fat feels different to me and even fat tissue paired of with leaner meat isn’t nearly as good as eating properly fatty meat to begin with but for your body it shouldn’t matter, I would think. But if it does, it should tell you anyway.
There are very few specific general things for all ketoers. We are too different and should figure out things for ourselves.

I guess itás cheese because it’s fatty and easy to eat? It doesn’t even satiate many of us well so it’s easier to eat much of it?
And drinking calories is often easier.
But some of us find even serious overeating on keto ridiculously easy (I do it too often accidentally lately), we don’t need such tricks.

You need enough calories and enough protein to avoid muscle loss. That’s it. Eat well and don’t worry about your muscles. If you have muscles not needed for your current lifestyle, use them too as our body doesn’t stay muscular without a good reason even if we eat tons of protein and calories.

Yes, this. Do this, Ivy, get fat adapted, that may change things anyway. You can learn things meanwhile, sure, knowing is good (reading contradictory things is less so, there are mysterious things as well, we humans just don’t know everything) and if you have a real problem, ask but if your 2000 kcal days with meat don’t cause you problems (except triggering zillion questions), that should be enough for now.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #116

I am lean! Been lean all my life despite many efforts to ‘bulk up’ my upper body and arms. I just have to accept that I’m an ectomorph. I eat to macros 2:1 fat:protein grams and 4.5:1 fat:protein calories.

@IvyKCKO In another post I linked to a video by Ben Bikman where he explains why eating to a macro like I do makes sense. It’s all about mitochondrial ‘coupling’ and ‘uncoupling’. I’m 76 years old and have a full-time job at Walmart that involves being on my feet full shift and lots of lifting. I eat 2300-2700 kcals per day to maintain 145 pounds and 14-15% BF! I’m a fat burner! Lots of it.

I suspect that ectomorphism is an indication of an efficient fat burner. Be advised. :sunglasses:

(Ivy) #117

I know now :slight_smile:
Im at least 1 week into keto.

As with another’s post:
Shock to the system–
This even for relatively well fat adapted individuals, but especially for newbies.
For example, it’s very possible, and for newbies probable, that a single ‘cheat day’ or even a single meal once per week can undo the previous 6 days of strict keto eating. Resulting in a continuous roller coaster between ketosis and not, creating all the symptoms of carb withdrawal anew each week as glucose, insulin and ketones swing up and down inducing other hormonal reactions. It’s no wonder people who experience this sort of thing give up on keto.

(Ivy) #118

Ah, so 12-18 oz meat. ok. Ive been doing it ok, 60-130 around there usually on the higher end as these numebrs have come my way. I was going with as low as 55 before from what someone told me! I never ate that low, though

(Edith) #119

So, does that mean you are supplementing with extra fat?

#120

I am interested in the answer too (as I am too curious) but I can assure you it’s not necessarily needed. A very fatty cut can do the trick. The fattiest pork cuts, perhaps (not for all countries but we have pork up to ‘no meat, just fat and skin’ here)? I had some super fatty mutton once but most of it got rendered out. Pork does that too but very much stays inside and anyway, one can boil it, I like that though that’s my processed meat, not my staple meat. Pork shoulders are fatty enough for me, thank you.

And IDK if it’s “supplementing with extra fat” but there are fatty low-protein dairy items as well. That’s why I have my rare 2:1 fat:protein days without eating added fat or just a tiny bit (a few grams on a good day. or less). I actually consider cream and sour cream and mascarpone added fat. They satiate me just as bad as rendered fat.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #121

Short answer: yes.

@VirginiaEdie @Shinita
Longer answer:

(Robin) #122

Ivy dear, you need to take a chill pill. Make a daily list of questions in one post. And when you get an answer, don’t follow it up with three more questions. Feels like the forum has been abducted. Give it a rest. Give it a week and don’t sweat the small stuff. You got this.

(Robin) #123

Stop all that testing! Give yourself a week and check again, if you must. Bottom line, if you are under 20 carbs a day, you are doing okay. Constantly tracking ketones and ketosis and even the scale can keep you riled up, when this is an ongoing process. It’s natural. It doesn’t have to be intense or complicated. Take a mental break and a deep breath.

(Laurie) #124

There is probably no reason to avoid exercising. If you were a super athlete or super weight lifter, keto could affect your performance. But for calisthenics, unlikely. Go ahead and exercise. If you feel weird, cut your session short or take a break.

Like you, I love learning and gathering facts. But I think you are getting too hung up on too much info. Keto and carnivore are really quite simple. Maybe don’t sweat the details at this early stage. If you run into a problem, then you can consider tweaking your program and asking about specifics. Good luck!

(Ivy) #125

How to approach doc about keto. Is this something to 'leave alone’so to speak? I was given a 'stop keto, Eat healthy from my last doc. Anyway, new doc, new day, its tomorrow actually.

(Eric) #126

I think it depends on your doctor. Many docs are not well educated on nutrition or diet and often have biases when they hear Keto. If your doc is new to you, you may want to consider feeling them out before opening the topic. Ultimately it’s your call and even if they don’t approve, it’s not their decision. Just like you don’t have to take a medication, just because they suggest it or prescribe it. It’s your body and your decision. Just like those who choose to eat SAD all the time. I know that my Keto WOE is way better than what I was doing before.

#127

I would say it depends on the one in question. I would tell about my woe to any doctor who asks, I can ignore anyone’s opinion just fine if I know what is right. And my body is great at telling me what it likes, it’s glaringly obvious it prefers extreme low-carb.

Yep, it’s our decision, never forget! (I never had a normal doctor myself but I broke bones and had problematic teeth… I typically disagree with doctors and save myself a lot of suffering through that.)

(Kirk Wolak) #128

Ivy,
I always recommend measuring.

But my tests PROVED that 1 cheat MEAL could throw my numbers OFF for the next 5 days. Giving me only 1 good day, maybe 2 in the right direction. Or zero, because I would have to waste so much time back peddling. So 1 day/wk is out of the question for me. 1 per MONTH is still out of the question, because it would cost me a week out of 3.

Every 4-6 months. Probably fine. Until you have spent a few years at your goals!

HTH,

Kirk Out
PS: If you focus mostly on red meat, until until you are full. Check out MyZeroCarbLife with Kelly Hogan. She gained weight at first, and then lost. But only eats meat. [For myself, a recent test proves I have to avoid chicken, and prior tests proved pork was an issue]

(Ivy) #129

if you only eat meat and no fat, then you wouldnt get enough calories of fat and go over ammonia toxicity, wouldnt you?

What do you mean ‘spending time back pedaling’?

Does bloating occur as a result of cheat meals? I still have significant bloat and it has been awhile since a cheat meal. Im sure it worked that she lost weight that way, since it is zero carb and fat burning works that way.

Since I am not yet fat adapted, I am not able to burn fat, and still aiming for ‘enough calories’ to get fat adapted, which people have been telling me both up your fat to 70%[standard keto diet] , dont up your fat ‘we never told you that’ [messed up, this is a forum all about that], and lower your fats to have higher protein than fat [80-90 gr fat, 150 protein]
So I am confused about that

I am doing 16:8 TMAD and OMAD, and it seems people even fight about THAT. Both doing that and a non-eating schedule work to get fat adapted. Im not sure what the argument is for one over the other?

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #130

Even more likely is a form of protein poisoning called “rabbit starvation.” Rabbit is a particularly lean meat, and trappers in North America who tried to live off rabbit alone fell prey to this condition, which can be fatal. And apparently, while this is considered a problem of too much protein, it is distinct from ammonia toxicity and also distinct from a lack of essential fatty acids. At least that is what I gather from some recent reading; I don’t know much about this condition otherwise.

And yes, too much carbohydrate can cause some bloating. The figure I have seen is that each gram of glucose causes us to retain three or four grams of water.

As for fat adaptation, it’s not that your muscles are completely unable to metabolise fatty acids, but that they are not as good at it as they will be. And we recommend enough fat to satisfy your hunger, no more, no less. People sometimes talk in specific percentages, but I personally think that’s silly. It’s also more complicated to figure out than “low carbohydrate, reasonable protein, and fat to satiety.”

As for the eating pattern you adopt, people will give conflicting advice because everyone is different. What works for me might not work for you, and vice versa. I try to let my appetite dictate when and how much I eat, but other people do better on a strict eating schedule. And then, someone else will come along and tell us to mix things up, so that our body doesn’t fall into a routine!

(Ivy) #131

Can you define rabbit starvation

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #132

You’ll have to look it up. All I know is that it is a problem of too much protein and too little fat, discovered when trappers in North America during colonial times tried to live on rabbit meat alone.

(Ivy) #133

Am I bloated more because I did succumb to two cheat meals in my ‘progress’–and may I therefore be bloated the entire time perhaps trying to get fat adapted?