New to this and loving it but

(karen) #84

Can’t resist… kaka-du. That might be the answer right there.

(Terence Dean) #85

The problem with this article is that it doesn’t tell you how the Inuit who survived on eating meat and blubber got their vitamin C; that was usually by eating raw liver. Not something I’d relish, give me an orange any day!

Our problem really is that we have every type of food at out finger tips. The issue is that we have too much choice, we often have sedentary lifestyles, I know I never had any problem with weight until I stopped active sport at around 35 years changed careers from a physical (tradesman) job to one where I sat behind a desk banging away on a keyboard (programmer). That plus eating too many carbs. Its quite obvious now in hindsight, either stop eating so much (carbbage) or do more physical activity to burn it off.

(Lonnie Hedley) #86

They didn’t get vitamin c. Thats the whole point. It’s not needed if you’re eating fresh meat. The image of scurvy, at least the picture that pops into my mind, is people stuck at sea. These people survived on crap that was able to last for months without refrigeration.

I’m not saying you shouldn’t eat vegetables. Only that it’s not necessary. It may surprise you how many people practice carnivory and don’t have any types of vitamin deficiencies.

(Lonnie Hedley) #87

I knew there was something in the article regarding no need for vitamin c to prevent scurvy.

There appears to be an alternative biochemical pathway for preventing scurvy that occurs when one is eating a fat-burning ketogenic diet, as opposed to a sugar-burning glucogenic diet. While the mechanism of action is not entirely clear, it is considered to be an established fact. Dr. Stephen Phinney has speculated that the blood ketone beta-hydroxybutyrate may itself be the anti-scorbutic factor.

(Terence Dean) #88

Well whatever the science behind those claims, I’m not going to just eat meat and nothing else. My choice and I’m happy to live with the consequences. Now pass me another orange or a Kakadu plum if you have em and KCKO!:keto:

(Lonnie Hedley) #89

Like I said, I’m not saying you shouldn’t eat however you want, I’m not the boss of anybody but myself (and the dog).

All I’m saying is you don’t need vitamin c to prevent scurvy, you don’t need fiber for good gut health/good movements, vegetables for vital micronutrients, etc. I gave you a list of acceptable foods because I believe if you’re eating natural not processed foods you can get healthy. If you want to n=1, even better. That’s what I’m doing. I’m more lean than I’ve ever been in my life. I felt pretty good eating veggies, but even better without them. You’re being successful with fruit while others aren’t. I think fruit could be a slippery slope for others with a sweet tooth and could cause some to have increased cravings. I’d suggest most people avoid fruit, but again only a suggestion since I’m not the boss of anybody but myself.

(Terence Dean) #90

Yep no problem Lonnie, I agree everyone has to decide what’s good for themselves. I learned something I didn’t know about scurvy today from your post and I can see why the idea of cutting back or not eating fruit is promoted on Keto to reduce sugar but my point also is that we shouldn’t be afraid of food, just be aware of what too much of anything can do to your body. I prefer moderation when it comes to food now, with the exception of dramatically reducing my wheat and excessive carb intake. Works for me but by no means am I saying that everyone should follow me.

(Ron) #91

It’s good to remember too that many who go on Keto are looking for much more than just weight loss. I was T2b and trying to lower insulin resistance and the sugar in fruits would spike my blood glucose levels to the moon and hinder my path to regaining my insulin sensitivity. Ultimately, I have determined it is best for me to not recommend fruits to new people coming onto the forum in the beginning as I don’t know what brought them here and even if it is just weight loss, to help them get adapted as quickly as possible this approach appears the most beneficial. :blush:

(Terence Dean) #92

That’s a fair point Ron but I’m not diabetic so I’m just writing from my own experience. You’re correct this plan I posted is not meant for everyone its just an example of what I eat in a day to help out @MonkeyNuts with her trying to work out her own plan.

If any of it helps then good if it doesn’t apply to people who cannot eat certain foods adjust it so its better. All I know is what works for me. I do eat fruit but I don’t sit down and eat a whole bag of oranges, fruit is a minor thing in my diet, often I go weeks without eating fruit so please don’t take that list of food items as compulsory or something because I change what I eat daily. That’s just one example of what I eat, some people may eat less and get the desired result great!

The greatest thing about this forum is that I may learn something I didn’t know and it could help me, regardless how trivial it may be.

(Empress of the Unexpected) #93

Sorry if it’s TMI but I need the occasional banana to be, let’s just say, more comfortable. A carnivore diet just runs right through me. Veggies help me as well. And I say occasional because I am here to lower my triglycerides and I know fruits don’t help with that.

(Ron) #94

Just a little tidbit I read the other day. Don’t flame me, I’m just a messenger.

"Bananas’ popularity have a problem worth considering. There’s just one variety in the world that’s widely grown: the Cavendish, says Dan Koeppel, author of Banana: The Fate of the Fruit That Changed the World. “The monoculture turns forests into factories, and means that bananas are very susceptible to disease, requiring lots of damaging pesticides to sustain the crop,” he says. “At the same time, bananas are the cheapest fruit in the supermarket. Maintaining these prices often means paying workers very little, which has led to violent suppression of attempts to expand worker benefits.”

(Lonnie Hedley) #95

Easier said than done for many.

“Keto has no rules”, but there are definitely guidelines. It can be tough for many, but following some guidelines is the best bet to guarantee someone will be successful in this WOE. I’m not metabolically deranged, have never been obese, or have had diabetes. At 6ft, sub 140lbs, I’m probably considered underweight. I can eat junk food, pizza, pasta, whatever and have it not affect weight although I know it affects how I feel physically AND mentally.

With that said, I stick to the same suggestions for EVERYONE. Keep it simple, carbs 20g net or less. Protein is a goal, use an online calculator to get an idea. Fat to satiety. Eat lots of it. Your body will naturally regulate in time after it learns to use it as fuel. After you make these adjustments, then you can n=1. I don’t share my daily intake with newbies, because 8 eggs, half a stick of butter, and 4oz of 73/27 ground beef isn’t for everyone. Telling newbies they should not fear fruit because scurvy is sharing incorrect information and only adding to their confusion.

(Empress of the Unexpected) #96

Ok so someone help me out here. I am 60. No real weight to lose but high triglycerides and belly fat. My doctor told me to work on both. In my forties I could do carnivore for months. Those days seem to be over. Not liking the forum recommendation for Imodium. I have lost twelve pounds so happy about that. Confused that everyone on this WOE seems to be constipated. (Apparently all Americans are). I’m the opposite and getting frustrated. Just want to hack Keto so I can be comfy, and more importantly, retain nutrients. My BH is normal.

(Ron) #97

Regina,
That’s not really true but I get your point. I had your problem in the beginning. I finally resolved it when someone suggested that with the situation I was expelling electrolytes and nutrients at before the body ever got to absorb anything. I was also told that when you eliminate the carbs and fats and protein become the main staple that the old gut biome that processed vegetables and sugars would not handle the change. This would result in the the body discarding the old gut bile and build new that would handle the new diet.
My solution was that I managed my electro’s closely (upped them in the beginning and as thing slowly calmed down reduced them accordingly) and got a quality enzyme supplement to help digestion of the fats and proteins, oxbile supplement to rebuild the gut biome, and quality probiotic supplement to help the rebuild. I probably could have went without the probiotics but it didn’t seem to hurt anything. This helped things and everything settled down to normal in about 3 weeks.

(Terence Dean) #98

I can see that scurvy comment really upset you, for that I apologize but you forget about the rest of the post which was about helping out someone trying to work out a plan for themselves. At least I’m trying to help which is not what you are doing, why not give MonkeyNuts an example of a decent food plan and schedule yourself rather than nitpicking and scoring points about scurvy…wow!

(Empress of the Unexpected) #99

Please tell me which enzyme supplement.

(Ron) #100

https://www.amazon.com/Source-Naturals-Bio-Aligned-Supplement-Constipation/dp/B0009EXOTQ/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UT

I’m also wondering if your bananna and higher carb intake might be hindering the body’s ability to rebuild the gut biome?:thinking:

(Bubba) #101

I appreciate that fruit may work for some but I don’t think it would help me…might start off sweet cravings which I don’t have at the moment.
I’m backed up at the moment though, sorry people, and nothing is working. I’m having slight palpitations so eating more lo-salt. Then strangely my face is very puffy, swollen looking in the morning…don’t know if anyone has experienced this?

(Lonnie Hedley) #102

Sorry that I’ve come across as upset. You caught me on a weekend where I’ve seen multiple “this works for me, it must work for everybody” posts. As a newbie I found it odd that you went from asking for list of acceptable foods to giving someone the advice they shouldn’t be afraid to eat fruit.

As for giving females advice…well there are too many variables as a male to provide specific information to them. Their bodies work a lot different than ours and I’m more comfortable letting other ladies provide more detailed advice.

I personally feel trying to help by giving incorrect advice is worse than not saying anything.

(Empress of the Unexpected) #103

Thanks!