New to the keto journey, and this site. Just wanted to converse over some things

(chuck) #1

Hello all,
I started a keto lifestyle change roughly 6 days ago. Only started tracking macros Saturday though. I tested my ketone levels yesterday afternoon and was at the “small amount” stage, 1.5

I am 5’10’ and 280 and 49 years old. Have a sedentary job but have a moderately busy lifestyle. When I’m not riding an ATV or snowmobile, I’m always tinkering in the garage do maintenance on my machines. And walk roughly 1-2 miles a day. Nothing that gets the heart rate really going but at least on my feet and moving.

I am using the “myketo” app and my macro goals are 2000 calories, 25g carbs, 167g fat, 100g protein.

So far I’m feeling great, not really hungry , not sluggish anymore, but am not seeing the signs of “clarity” I’ve read everywhere. Actually yesterday, I forgot my lunch, wallet , and access badge yet felt like I was wide awake, I didn’t feel bad. This morning though, I feel a little tired and when cooking breakfast felt discombobulated.

Since I’ve been logging I have been falling short on calories by 500-600. Also falling short on protein by 10-20g , falling short of fat by 60g but going over on carbs by 10-15 grams.

I’m really struggling with getting the fat up and keeping the carbs down. I checked my ketone levels this morning and they were slightly down from yesterday evening, somewhere between .5 and 1.0 I’m assuming the reason I’m not getting into full ketosis is the fat deficit and too many carbs.

My wife and I have generally ate healthy, salads chicken, fish etc. It’s the carbs that got me in trouble, and alcohol. I love bourbon. It is definitely a touch change though. Instead of grabbing some salad and tuna , it’s broccoli rabe and a scoop of ground beef. Just a different way of thinking. And carbs are in everything it seems ! And I’m learning to watch out for “keto” products…not all are what they say. I think I got scammed on some keto bars, that I thought were the right choice, but one bar has 20 g of carbs…

Looking forward to hearing some feedback.

(Stan Orlowski) #2

Welcome to the Keto Lifestyle. Check out Dr Eric Berg on YouTube, he several videos on the subject. I’m doing the Intermittent Fasting with Keto and dropped weight quickly, and keeping it off for over a year.

(chuck) #3

Thanks Stan,
Prior to starting I did listen to several videos from Dr. Berg and Thomas DeLauer.

(J) #4

I am reasonably new to keto (3 months) and new here on the forums, so take me with a chunk of salt, butd on’t ditch tuna as a great source of protein! Don’t eat it every day d/t mercury content, but once or twice a week is still considered healthy AFAIK. I started buying the yummy yellowfin canned in olive oil to put on my salads- arugala is a tastey low-carb green to use for salads -and a fatty dressing keep my macros in check.

If you need a little post-meal pickup, I make these ‘bombs’ that are a 1:1:1 ratio of salted, unsweetened, smooth almond butter, unsweetened cocoa powder, and coconut oil. I warm it slightly so that it stirs up nice and smooth and dole out into an ice cube tray. They avoid the insulin response you may get with an artificially sweetened fat bomb. (At least I think they do!- I’ll let the experts weigh in)

(Diane) #5

Are you counting net or total carbs? If you are counting net carbs (which many people do) and you are in the US, you can subtract the fiber and some sugar alcohols (erithrytol and stevia for example) to calculate the net carbs in a food. FYI, keep in mind that some people do have an insulin response to some sugar alcohols. I wouldn’t worry about that at the very beginning of your journey, especially if you’re not eating a lot of low carb “treats” sweetened with sugar alcohols. The standard goal for net carbs is 20 grams. That virtually guarantees your body will enter ketosis for the vast majority of people (the unlucky few may need to count total carbs and keep them under 20 grams per day).

Not sure how you’re testing your ketone levels (blood, urine or breath)? If you’re testing your blood, it’s generally accepted that anything over 0.5 mmol/L indicates you’re in nutritional ketosis. I think it’s useful to remember that at first you are denying your body the carbs it’s used to using as fuel and even though you are in ketosis, your body needs to adapt to burning this new fuel efficiently. This usually takes about 6 to 8 weeks for most people, but can take longer if you have significant metabolic derangement. For example, I estimate that it took me about 5 months to become “fat adapted”. I believe I’m probably an extreme outlier.

Here’s a very good article (in 3 parts) which discusses the differences between being in ketosis and being fat adapted. I found it full of useful information.

Keep in mind that as you begin your keto journey, you aren’t eating enough carbs to fuel your body, but your body is not yet good at burning the ketones your body is making. This means you need to eat enough healthy fats to use for fuel. You also just need to eat enough. Eating too little at the beginning can prolong the process of fat adaption. Don’t eat to a caloric deficit. Make sure any macro calculator you are using is set to maintaince NOT weight loss. Once you are fat adapted, you can make adjustments to your macros, if you feel the need. At the beginning, you do not want to cause your body to respond to a caloric deificit by gearing down your metabolism and reducing your RMR (resting metabolic rate). A reduction in your RMR can make you feel crappy.

At the beginning, you are also burning through your body’s glycogen stores (glucose stored in your liver and muscles). When your body burns these stores (which happens because your carbohydrate consumption is now minimal), you lose a lot of fluids. Also, as your ketone levels rise, it becomes harder for your body to hang onto fluids. With these fluid losses, you also lose a lot of electrolytes. Having low electrolytes or electrolyte imbalances can really cause you to feel crappy/weak fast. This can be exacerbated by exercise and physical activity. You may need to be careful about how much strenuous physical activity you perform during the “fat adaption” process. The conclusion is that people following a low carb or Keto diet need to use more salt and supplement electrolytes. You will find several “ketoaide” recipes if you search this forum or in google. Be VERY careful with potassium supplementation. Too much potassium can affect your heart.

With regards to getting your fat intake up, here are a few suggestions. Eat fattier cuts of meat, chicken thighs instead of breasts, fattier hamburger, bacon, pork belly, etc. You can also add fatty sauces and dressings to your meat and vegetables. Add a big pat of butter to your steak (or a pan sauce made with butter). Use your vegetables as a fat delivery system by adding blue cheese dressing or butter. Eat high fat cheeses like Brie. Eat avocados and olives. Add heavy cream or extra yolks to your scrambled eggs.

Hope you find at least some of this information useful. Remember we’re all learning as we go.

Welcome to the forum and good luck on your journey!

(CharleyD) #6

Yeah, right around that time I forgot how to talk to customers over the phone, but could still write an email with the same style/voice. It was concerning but I kept calm and keto’d on, and the mental hiccups like that cleared up.

It is an energy crisis that comes from your skeletal muscles changing over from being sugar burning towards fatty acid burning with a brief stop-over burning ketones. As long as you can restrict carb sufficiently, they’ll continue to progress towards FFA oxidation and free up the ketones for the brain.

(Diane) #7

Excellent point! Hadn’t ever exactly thought of it in those terms.

(chuck) #8

Okay, I am testing using the urine strips. Also, the carbs I am tracking are net. And when I changed my app over to “maintenance” , my macros went to 2900 calories, and like 10 g of carbs. Not sure that will work, since the app is probably trying to maintain my current weight not my target. And so far , I haven’t eaten any low carb treats…the only sugar alcohol I want to intake is a pour of bourbon… that is going to be the hardest thing to go without.
Also, thanks for the articles.

(chuck) #9

Today, even though I felt tired this morning, at least more so then yesterday, I haven’t forgotten anything and am actually pretty focused at work. We will see how the day goes on.

(LeeAnn Brooks) #10

Do not worry about restricting calories. That isn’t how Keto works. Keto works by controlling insulin levels. It’s insulin that makes us fat.

You need to fuel the adaptation process.

(Diane) #11

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

(Diane) #12

With regards to the ketobars you referenced above, I didn’t see any that were 20 grams of carbs. The ones I saw were about 10 to 15 grams of total carbs. Subtracting fiber and sugar alcohols, they came in at about 2 to 3 net carbs per bar. I certainly could have missed something on the website. But from what I saw, these should be doable. While I personally wouldn’t want to eat them every day, I think they could be okay as a treat or as an emergency ration on a busy day.

(chuck) #13

Here is what I’ve been doing, I’ve been forgetting about being able to subtract the fiber. For instance, here is my log for today. I’m stressing about dinner because I can’t figure out what I can eat to keep me under my carbs. Same thing happened yesterday. I ended up eating some smoked salmon, calamata olives , and two pieces of string cheese.

Breakfast: 3 scrambled eggs w/shredded cheese, 3 strips of bacon , and some coffee. My app says 40g fat, 8 net carbs, 38g of protein, and 550 calories.
Lunch : this recipe, although we used broccoli rabe instead of just broccoli. App says 24g fat, 7g net carb, 12g protein, and 300 calories
https://binged.it/2uI07Wd

Also, the app says I’ve picked up 2.6g

So my deficit so far today is : 1150 calories, 102 g fat , 50 g or protein, and I’ve only got 9.8 carbs left before I go over. Or is that 12.4 after subtracting the fiber ?

I was thinking for dinner, a couple of links of Italian sausage, calamata olives with feta in oil, and some broccoli rabe.

(Casey Crisler) #14

Over 2 months in, I still haven’t noticed my mental clarity improving. Nor are my aches and pains going away. However, my irritability factor has increased ten-fold. I guess it’s different for everyone.

(Diane) #15

You could add some scrambled eggs with added heavy cream and/or extra yolks. They have minimal carbs but plenty of protein and fat (especially when you add in cream or yolks).

Just one idea.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #16

You can track either net or total carbohydrate, but be sure to be consistent. Be aware also that, in North America, the nutrition panel on food shows total carbohydrate, whereas in most of the rest of the world, the fiber has already been subtracted from the carbohydrate number.

While everyone’s carbohydrate tolerance is different, we suggest a limit of 20g/day in order to ensure that the maximum number of people can get into ketosis. Over a certain limit, carbohydrate stimulates insulin production, and insulin forces the body to burn glucose, inhibits the production of ketone bodies, and forces fat into the adipose tissue. The more insulin-resistant you are, the lower your carb limit will be.

We enter ketosis pretty quickly after beginning a well-formulated ketogenic diet, but it takes six to eight weeks to become fully fat-adapted, which is our real goal. This is why, at six days in, you are not yet experiencing the clarity people talk about. Give yourself time, it will come. And it will probably come gradually, not instantaneously.

Most of the cells in our bodies contain organelles called “mitochondria” to power them. Each mitochondrion is like a tiny little furnace that takes glucose or fat and ketones and turns them into energy for the cell’s activities. The point is, however, that the metabolic pathway is either/or; a mitochondrion can metabolize only glucose or ketones/fatty acids, not both at the same time (ketone bodies are intermediate by-products of fat metabolism, by the way). Glucose gets priority, because too much of it in the bloodstream is a dangerous emergency, and if we are used to running on carbohydrate, our mitochondria are mostly prepared to run on glucose; it takes time for them to switch fully over to fat (and ketone) metabolism, which is fat-adaptation. Once we become fat-adapted, our mitochondria are more metabolically flexible and can switch more easily between the two metabolic pathways.

The body also does better on moderate protein; too much or too little causes problems. Protein stimulates insulin production, though at only half the rate at which carbohydrate does. It is essential, so we have to eat some; on the other hand, too much protein can put us back into glucose-burning mode by raising insulin, and really too much can generate so much ammonia that it builds up in our blood and becomes toxic.

This means that we need to get most of our calories as fat. If we eat fat to satiety, we ensure that our body is getting enough energy to heal and grow. Part of that process of healing is the burning off of any excess stored fat. Saturated fat, contrary to what the government tells us, actually promotes better cholesterol numbers and healing from heart disease and diabetes; monunsaturated fat is a good energy source. We need certain polyunsaturated fats (i.e., omega-3 and omega-6), but in excess they can be dangerous. So stay away from most of the vegetable oils on the market; stick to butter, bacon grease, lard, tallow, etc. And healthy oils such as avocado, coconut, and olive.

(Diane) #17

@PaulL you have a real gift for concise, clear prose! I always appreciate your contributions.

(Aimee Moisa) #18

Salad and tuna is what I eat for lunch at least once a week. Why do you think you can’t have salad and tuna? Do you mean canned tuna or fresh/sushi-type tuna?

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #19

One tries, certainly. Glad to know that occasionally one also succeeds, lol! :smile: :bacon:

(Diane) #20

I should have said concise, clear, complete prose!

When I try to answer questions, I often realize I left something important out.

:yum: