New to keto, looking for some advice, and literature

(William B) #1

Hi all. I am new to keto, started about 12 days ago.
About me: 42 yes old, male. 5’8. Starting weight 283.6, current weight 272.6.

Daily restriction to 20g carbs or less. And 1500 kcals or less.

I have been eating on average 3 times per day. My main concern is that my unsupplemented ketone levels have been running 6 to 8 mmol across the day, and most of my reading says it should be closer to 5 for safety. I have a deadline to be at or below 250 lbs by December 15th of this year, so 22.6 lbs to lose in 2 months. (To be within acceptable bmi for surgery on my shoulder for a torn rotor cuff. )

I want to make sure I am doing this in the healthiest way possible, knowing as well that the rate of loss is a little higher than the accepted 1 to 2 lbs a week.

I want to ensure that I am being mindful of other impacts I may be having on my health as well in the process.

I would love to get some thoughts from the community on the goals, the best and safest way to ensure I am on track but also what do I do about the relatively high ketone levels I am experiencing, and if I should be concerned.

Thanks.

(Robin) #2

@william_B Welcome to the forum. Thanks for the good intro with information. My gut reaction is you are probably restricting your calories too much! Your body will eventually start holding onto weight if it can’t maintain. Try starting with sufficient calories to maintain where you are now, maybe a smidge less.

If you are like many of us, your weight has gone up and down over the years. And that will sabotage your progress now unless you eat enough.

(William B) #3

I had the quick drop in weight right off as I shed water after removing soda and all that stuff, and it has slowed to .2 to .5 lbs a day, and I am ensuring I eat enough food to feel full each day. Before keto, I used to only eat 1 time a day, mostly casseroles, meat and potatoes, soda, etc. Not healthy at all, I know. So, I have decided to try to fix my poor habits, and jumped on the keto bandwagon full force. But also want to make sure I am doing things in the safest way.

I am more concerned w the high ketone levels. Is that too high at 6 to 8, or is that to be expected and just keep watching to make sure it doesn’t exceed 8?:thinking: I hope my question makes sense.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #4

First of all, welcome to the forums!

A ketogenic diet is not low-calorie. It indeed involves limiting carbohydrate, but it also involves eating a reasonable amount of protein (often in the range of 1.0-1.5 and even up to 2.0 g/kg of lean body mass), and enough fat to satisfy hunger. Given the relative caloric densities, f you cut your carbohydrate by 300 g, you can make up the caloric loss with only 133 g of fat. Also, equal amounts of protein and fat by weight is 31% protein and 69% fat by calories.

For a number of reasons, we do not recommend cutting calories on a ketogenic diet. We find, from experience and from research, that the composition of our food provokes a hormonal response that trumps the absolute caloric intake. In other words, many of us ate a calorie-restricted diet and still got fat, because all the carbohydrate we ate was fattening. Shifting to an ad libitum ketogenic diet allowed us to shed fat without hunger. (And there are data showing that eating fat promotes an increase in fatty-acid metabolism.) Many people on these forums have found that they did not start shedding excess fat until they started eating more, not less.

Don’t be concerned. As long as your pancreas is producing any insulin at all, diebetic ketoacidosis is not a concern. The official diagnosis requires serum β-hydroxybutyrate of 10.0 mmol/dL or higher with attendant hypoglycaemia, but symptoms don’t begin to manifest until β-hydroxybutyrate reaches 20.0.

You may or may not make the deadline. The stories of rapid fat loss on keto come from people who had a lot to lose; the first 100 lbs. come off a lot faster than the last 10.

But I’m also not sure why your surgeon insists on the weight loss. I broke both arms in a bad accident in 2016, pre-keto, when I weighed around 300 lbs., and they had no problem repairing my shoulder.

(William B) #5

The only available surgery center in our area has a max bmi requirement to pad thier safety numbers, and if I don’t meet my goal, the surgery center will bill me for the OR, but won’t allow me to have the surgery performed, this will result in about a 12000.00 or 15000.00 bill, which insurance won’t cover since surgery was not performed.

(William B) #6

I thank you for the insights, and will just keep monitoring, watching that I am eating enough, and keep an eye on my ketones to ensure they don’t continue to climb. I appreciate the time you have taken to answer my question, and we will see how this journey goes.

(Allie) #7

Scrap that, don’t deliberately restrict calories as your body needs fuel to do what you want it to.

Unless you’re diabetic, you’ve no reason to worry about what you believe to be high ketone levels.

(Marianne) #8

Sounds good, but please don’t count calories. You don’t have to. Keto doesn’t require that, and eating to a calorie deficit may actually be detrimental. Long term, it will slow your metabolism and won’t be sustainable for you. Keep eating three meals a day but to satiety. I’d also encourage you to stop any measuring, including the scale. Newbies are looking for “the way,” but honestly, it’s as simple as eating clean food (one ingredient - doesn’t matter if you combine those things to make a meal), eating to satiety and keeping the total carbs as low under 20g/day as you can. Honestly, that’s it. Throw out all the other preconceived notions you may have heard or that have carried over from years of conventional dieting. Your capacity and desire for food will diminish once you become fat adapted, but that didn’t happen for me until around four months. Just keep doing what you are doing until then, don’t worry about “dieting,” and let the days pass comfortably. Best to you. Hope to see you here!

(Marianne) #9

Honest to God, if you follow our instructions (which are simple, minimal and basic), you will NOT require surgery. Keto has been my personal miracle - for real. It couldn’t be simpler, but I was terrified when I started after 40+ years of conventional dieting - which didn’t work. It’s a leap of faith, but please believe us. We’ve been there.

(Megan) #10

Hi William, welcome to the forum.

Once you have lost the amount of weight your surgeon wants you to lose, what are your plans post surgery regarding what you eat?

If your plan is to follow a keto woe just to get the surgery, keep doing what you are doing because so far it’s working for you. You’ve lost a lot of weight in a very short time frame (tho yes, some of it will have been “water weight” from bringing your carbs down to 20 grams a day like you say), and given your weight and height you may continue to lose quite quickly and get your surgery.

If you plan to do keto long term you will probably need to change what you are doing (1,500 cals a day isn’t a long term strategy for various reasons), but for short term weight loss goals it will probably work. Any calorie restricted diet “works” for most people short term.

Make sure you are eating enough protein b/c protein is important, but not more than you need b/c you are focusing on fast weight loss, read all labels to check for hidden carbs if you’re eating stuff in packets (and carbs are called all sorts of things on the ingredients list), and eat “healthy fats” - avoid processed seed oils. Drink to thirst and keep hydrated and add salt to food if you’re getting any symptoms of electrolyte imbalance (many people eating keto need more salt, especially initially).

All the best and keep us posted!!

(Gabe “No Dogma, Only Science Please!” ) #11

Welcome!

  • Take all advice/opinions on these forums with a grain of salt. Always defer to your personal physician; try find one who knows something about low carb
  • Having said that, there are some great threads on this forum, from introductory to advanced.
  • Stay under your 20g carbs and you will lose the fat. If you have to postpone the surgery… so be it. Don’t rush it (This is an example of an opinion to take with a grain of salt… consult your physician!)
  • Watch lectures on YouTube. Stephen Phinney, Eric Westman, and Gary Taubes are my top 3 recommendations. Robert Lustig too.
  • Jason Fung is great also. Also, Tim Ferriss has his “slow carb” diet which is low carb-adjacent, and Peter Attia was ketogenic for years but no longer is, and he worked extensively with Gary Taubes, so he’s worth listening to
  • The book “Why We Get Fat” by Gary Taubes is superb. He also wrote “Good Calories, Bad Calories” which is longer and slightly older.
  • Jason Fung’s book, “The Obesity Code,” is excellent too.
  • Both Eric Westman and Stephen Phinney are two of the early pioneers of mainstream keto (though Phinney would insist he is not a pioneer but a “settler.”) – both of these gentlemen have made very clear a number of points that “internet-based keto” has gotten wrong. Westman recently contrasted this with “evidence-based keto.” Some of their key points are:
  1. that you cannot eat unlimited fat
  2. you should not try to “reach your macros” – just stay under 20g total carbs (not net carbs)
  3. calories DO count, but you should not count calories (this is Westman)
  4. don’t eat foods labelled “keto”
  5. you should not be adding gratuitous amounts of fats/oils to your foods. Just eat healthy whole low carb foods, and stay under your 20 grams.
  6. You WILL be eating fewer calories as you’re losing fat – because you’re actually “eating” the fat stored in your body. So don’t listen to people who tell you to eat more fat. Eat to satiety. See Phinney’s graph below courtesy of his company, Virta Health.

Another thought… even if you don’t stay under 20g carbs, the reality is that you’ll achieve 80% of your goals by cutting out starches and sugars. Lustig is not a “low carb” guru… he’s the guru of unprocessed whole foods. Even if you find yourself eating fruit, you will still achieve a lot of your goals. My first 22 pounds came off in 10 weeks while eating copious amounts of mango. Heresy on these forums! And weird–because I’m insulin resistant, so I can tell you that the mangos weren’t good for me. It was just that I’d switched to an infinitely better diet than the one I’d had prior to going lower carb.

I have a lot more thoughts… but I’m at work now and don’t have time. Feel free to look through some of the threads I’ve posted in over the years by clicking on my handle, and also feel free to @ mention me if you have any thoughts or questions.

Good luck!

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#12

Just keep those carbs at 20ish, get a gram of protein per pound of bodyweight to protect much (more is fine) and stay as active as you can. I’d normally say 1500 is pretty low, but you have a goal with a real reason behind it.

Your ketone levels don’t matter, on either side. Them being higher doesn’t mean you’re losing fat faster, and you’re not going to any “unsafe” level, because your body doesn’t let that happen in any normal context. You’re good!

(William B) #13

Thanks for the suggested reading. I appreciate it. I am hoping to meet my short term goal forst, and then look at if continuing on the keto diet will work long term. As of now, I am just waiting and watching what changes I see. The hardest part for me is the lack of options out and about, bit since I work at home, that is minimal.

I am hoping to see the benefits of the higher energy levels I have read about, and am still struggling through some of the brain fog issues through transition right now. But time will tell. When I say I have been restricting calories, it has been more tracking what I have been eating, and thatbis where they have been falling when I am no longer hungry. I have been eating a fair number of salads, chicken, beef, pork, eggs, bacon at breakfast, cheese, etc.

I do appreciate all of the responses and the warm welcome on my journey here on the forum.

(Gabe “No Dogma, Only Science Please!” ) #14

When I first started low carb, I found that I could tweak orders at restaurants pretty easily. Eg bunless burgers. Sugary sauces can throw a wrench in the works but as I said earlier, just avoiding sugar and starches got me 80% of the way there.

If you ever find yourself finding keto boring, there are threads entitled “boring keto” on these forums displaying how exciting keto cooking can be. I’d also encourage you to listen to the old episodes of the 2 keto dudes podcasts where they discuss recipes as the final segment each week.

Final note: going off keto is pretty much guaranteed to reverse weight loss. That’s why so many people call it “unsustainable.” You probably know by now: this isn’t a diet, it’s a lifestyle.

Good luck again!

(Robin) #15

Welcome!
Keep us in the loop as you progress.
You’ll find your way amidst all the different details from our varied experiences.
Some read and research. Others never do.
Some hop on the scale every morning. Others threw theirs out.
Some keep veggies as a staple. Others gave them up for various reasons.
Some like to cook keto versions of old faves. Others give it up and never look back.
Some need supplements. Others don’t buy into that.

Some folks measure and track. Some never do…
except that 20g carbs.
That’s the line in the sand for most of us. But…There are variables if you are a weightlifter or into heavy exercise or running… you’ll find that tribe here too.

(Denise) #16

Welcome William,

I don’t know a thing about having to lose weight for surgery. Was this a suggestion or a “must do” by your doctor?

I also don’t know enough about weight-loss when weighing heavier than my weight was. I was 140 lbs, got diagnosed as a T2 Diabetic, and hit the ground running it scared me so bad (actually a good scare). I didn’t exercise regularly at all the first few weeks, then I started walking. I steadily lost a lb a week. I also kept a diary of my foods so I would know what I could eat without spiking my Blood Glucose (have a tiny test-kit I’d use).

For me I didn’t have a test for my ketones, I just kept reading about “symptoms of” switching from using carbs as fuel, to Fat. It was hard at first because I felt crappy, lethargic, headaches but I kept coming here and complaining :sweat_smile: The forum has been a God-sent for me. I’m now 21 months into Keto and have lost down to a normal weight, mostly love my gym and the people I’ve met there.

Eating when hungry, yes watching my macros percents more than calories. I’d been taught before keto that it was necessary to fuel my body enough to lose weight but I’d never put it into practice til my diagnoses.

I still eat 3 meals a day, my carbs run about 30 or less and are my spinach, brussel sprouts, berries. One other thing I did, and don’t have a family, so I emptied my cupboards and fridge of all the high carbs and never have looked back. I wish you every success, and do hope you stay here with us. It’s a great place, and never-ending supply of info on books, videos, studies for us :slight_smile: Denise
PS I’m 69, 5’2", and 113, do weight-training and walks. Oops, almost forgot, all my self-tests for T2 are in safe range. Had one week when starting serious weight-training mine shot up a bit. Came here and complained :sweat_smile: and got it straightened out in a day or two :slight_smile:

Please don’t let my slow weight-loss discourage you, I have heard time and again that the heavier a person is the faster the weight-loss :wink:

(Denise) #17

Hi again @William_B,

I found this and thought it might be a good one since it’s from dietdoctor.com. The diet doctor info is highly recommended by some here so check these out on other men your age, weight etc. that did/do Keto :slight_smile:

https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/success-stories/men-40/all

#18

Stop the stupid here in that the lifestyle of Keto Plan is showing the way forward.

NOW STOP THE what ifs LOL

you are doing fine. DO NOT kowtow ever again. You are following keto plan and you see results and NOW you are super ‘guessig and what if and and how can I be not that bad from another’s post and more?’

YA READ too much Keto bs on the net :astonished: one size will never fit all! :star_struck:

do you. just eat Keto plan since SO NEW you can DRIVE your own personal life on this plan and dump all the other crap you read and felt you have ‘some extreme’ goal to acquire.

YOU DO NOT!!

Key being as a more new person you ‘eat the plan’ as in guidelines of 20g carbs per day, feel good doing that and eat well by doing just that and ‘get thru real adaption phase as it hits your personally’ and let go of the scale or ketones burned or what ifs…

this is key…there is no concern. Keto Plan is 20g carbs, eat all you require and focus on good meat fat intake definitely and walk your path as you need, do not ‘ever go forward’ til ya know who you are in transition and what ya read :wink:

12 days is baby but key being let loose what ‘ya read must hit’ thru all the internet crap out there and be you and WE GOT YA ON support when day 20 or 30 gets harder and we can support you thru adaption times.

wishing only the best and smartest way to you to proceed and we got ya :slight_smile: truly…we can help tons if the changes of life we need hit home and want real experiences during changes we grab onto so tight but feel so alone ya know cause so many of us walked this path!!

:100: you got this change in you. eat and forget literally the ‘controlled science’ on it all as you transfrom, in such a new state to eating for your heatlh! :heart: Key to Keto plan is just eat and let the body show you the way forward that ‘always suits’ u as you change. You are so new and dump all the keto chat in your brain, you will find if you do the plan, as you need, nothing else will come into play but one thing is, if it does, we got’ya!! K

(Denise) #19

I agree Robin,

Everyone has to find their own way, and coming here, reading all sorts of info in order to weed out what you need for yourself to be successful, and toss what you don’t need or want. I love all the info available and still have great interest reading. If something confuses me, I can always ask about it here :wink:

I never blindly follow someone shooting off their mouth about what to do and what not to do. I weigh out the info I have and decide for myself. Most of my progress has been sort of like being my own guinea pig :wink: but also, there’s been some “magic” I’ll dare to say that’s happened to me while steadily sticking with Keto/low-carbs :wink:

(Laurie) #20

Lots of good advice here. I’d also suggest adding in some exercise to help boost the weight loss a bit. Maybe add in 30-60 minutes a day of walking.

Some say that exercise has nothing to do with weight loss, but my experience suggests that it does. Good luck.