New Carnivore - Giving this a try after long break from Keto

(Dawn) #1

Hi There

My name is Dawn and I used to be here about 20 times per day back in 2017 - 2018, but over time I have backed away. I am starting over with carnivore this time as where previously was fully keto and fasting. I don’t want to fast as much this time. I would prefer to eat well, but I really need to lose about 120 pounds. So I am not sure if this is the best for me or not but it is definitely worth a try for 30 days or so. If I don’t like it, I can always go back to keto.

For my experienced carnivores out there, can you help me with a few questions

1). Can I eat ham instead of bacon for the 30 day jump start that Dr. Berry suggests
2). Is cheese ever allowed
3). Same question about heavy cream. I can go without sweetener in my coffee, but I need at least a little cream to help me out. I cannot do black coffee
4). Dr. Berry suggests bacon, eggs, beef, coffee and tea for 30 days, but can I get away with chicken? I want to optimize my results, but I also want to make sure that I can make it through the 30 days. Does anyone have experience doing his 30 day challenge and adding in a few items that he did not list?

I really want to try carnivore to figure out what does best for me. I am so curious to see how this N-1 experiment works out. I truly have nothing to lose at this point

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #2

It is true that the most effective elimination diet would be beef only, but if you don’t have any known problems with other meats, then why not? Personally, I don’t find poultry as satisfying as red meat (including pork), so that may or may not be something for you to consider.

As for cheese and cream, a lot of people don’t recommend dairy for a variety of reasons, and there is some thinking among carnivores that one should stick to meat and not other animal products, but for the first thirty days, if doing without cream and cheese is going to be a deal-breaker, and if you don’t have any known problems with dairy, then you probably can get along with them in your diet.

Often, when people make a recommendation, it is for good and sufficient reasons, but if they don’t explain those reasons, then I don’t see any reason not to modify to suit.

A goodly number of strict carnivores found themselves eating that way, because they became aware of problems they had with various foods. So they ended up carnivore by a process of elimination. You might or might not have the same experience. It’s impossible to predict.

(Bill) #3

Personal responses from me

1 Yes no problem. I tend to make my own ham or just cold roast pork.
2 I have cheese sometimes but find it can have a bad effect with eight gain and I think constipation dso limit what I have.
3. Coffee with cream is my fasting crutch so I do every single day multiple times!
4. I find chicken not especially satiating but again so long as it has a mother you should be ok with it.

As Paul says the hardcore carnivores would do beef only for the first 30 days but if you are coming from a more varied diet that might be quite hard. I did it for a month and quite enjoyed it … then again some might say I’m a bit odd!

(Dawn) #4

Can I please steal that phrase “As long as it has a mother”? Because I absolutely love it. Thank you so much for the advice. I love beef so much so I think I will be ok. I will keep some chicken on hand just in case I need variety.

Do you IF and just do one big meal or two big meals within your window?

I think I can probably get away with skipping everything except heavy cream. I absolutely love cheese, but I have never known a life without it. I think it is time to see what happens without it.

(Dawn) #5

Thank you so much. This is really helpful. I don’t know if I have known problems with dairy because I have never been dairy free. There could be all kinds of problems and I just didn’t realize it. It will be interesting to see what happens. I don’t think that 30 days without cheese is a deal breaker, I need to try it. I have got to get some weight off and get kick started into a regular routine. Im so fat that I can hardly walk up the stairs. Thank you for the motivation and guidance. I really appreciate it.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #6

Most long-term carnivores advise newcomers not to try to fast. I don’t believe they fast, either. I’ve read advice to the effect that newcomers should eat three meals a day. Also (fwiw), they do say that the solution to any problem a newcomer might experience is to eat more meat! :grin:

So if you are up for the experiment, mazel tov. If not, keep calm and carnivore on!

#7

I better tell you in advance that I am not a carnivore. I just try to stay close most of the time as I tried carnivore and it was way better and easier than keto, finally I got benefits too!

I don’t think labels and rules are so important, I go for finding my realistic, nice method that works for me… I am pretty sure there isn’t even some single definition of carnivore… There are stricter and looser styles.
Many people have problems with dairy but if you don’t and they even help you, why not? I could never do anything close to carnivore without my numerous dairy items. As time passed and I got used to eat more meat, dairy lost its vital role but it’s still nice and useful.

People who have some problem they really want to fix, often start with a strict version, it’s understandable. I felt pretty healthy even on high-carb let alone on low-carb, I just wanted the best but needed more variety so I started with a more relaxed approach (anyway, you pry out paprika from my cold, dead hands. normally I don’t need it but some dishes require it and I won’t give them up. it was more important in the beginning when I needed my stews).

Chicken is fine (if it works for you. I don’t particularly like it and it doesn’t satiate me AT ALL, at least alone, as far as I know, all fowl has this with me but pairing it up with some other meat works). I don’t even eat beef more than maybe once a month as I can’t afford it (I can’t just buy it in any supermarket anyway, it’s not that country) and I prefer pork anyway. Yum. I mostly live on pork and eggs, even off carnivore, even off keto. It’s just my normal food and I like it best. it’s works for me well enough so why bother with some impossibly strict style? I do experimented with those, it’s good to try out things, maybe they will be informative… But I don’t force things, I don’t need to, lucky.

And carnivore (or anything close to it) is WAY better and easier than mere keto for me. So I am all for people trying it out. It’s not for everyone, it’s not even for me ALL the time but it’s so great to get the benefits mere keto never gave to me.

IF: I am a natural IFer, it has about nothing to do with my woe, almost every day is IF for me (1-8 hour eating window). My number of meals are crazy on carnivore, on day 1, the next day 5… I went from 3 meals to 2 on keto but without my plant carbs my satiation is all over the place, it can be too quick so I need to eat many meals to eat enough for the day.

Do IF if it comes naturally. Don’t if it would be forceful. And decide what to do in-between. But if you don’t do IF already, you probably shouldn’t try that together with a new woe.

Number of meals are individual too. I need to be flexible as sometimes I eat up an OMAD sized meal and sometimes I eat as much as I can, using all tricks and small breaks and still need a few more meals to have some low-cal day, it’s a bit tiresome sometimes… Eating meat often has this “stop sign” where you suddenly get satiated and that’s about it. Probably not everyone has it. I often don’t but often do. My carni isn’t particularly predictable, not even when I actually stick to it for weeks, no idea why.

Good luck! You are individual. And you can change a lot anyway. I know I did and it’s good.

(Michael) #8

I normally do TRE, but not everyday. Some days I eat 3 meals, at say 11 am, 3 pm and again at 8 pm. Today I just ate breakfast at 6:30 pm, so most likely I will only eat once more today. I am usually hungry when I first wake up, but if I ignore it for a bit I can eat soon or very late in the day and be fine. I am T2D with some loose skin, so for me, getting some fasting time in is still valuable. Overall, I think quite a few carnivores fast or TRE, but there are certainly a few that do not. They are usually more outspoken, but seem to be the minority to me (just more vocal).
Whipping cream (35%) is fine here and there. I never use it except a tiny bit when scrambling eggs/brains. I like Jarlsberg lactose free cheese as it has good vitamins and very little carbs - I have decided to NOT buy cheese for at least a month just to break my cheese addiction :slight_smile: . If the cheese has more than a few carbs in your meal, you probably want to skip it (especially in the beginning) - so read the packages. Personally I do not drink coffee or tea as they do not agree with me, and I avoid all vegetables (I do not add any seasoning either for example). I have decided to simply state to those who ask, that I am allergic to all fruits, vegetables and nuts.
Chicken is low fat in general, so I avoid chicken meat and only eat chicken livers and hearts. If you love it, go for it, just make sure to get enough fat calories in as well. I started with beef and water only for 30 days before adding in other animal meats/eggs and then later lactose free cheese.

#9

According to my data, chicken is pretty fatty with the skin on… Egg level. My most important pork staple is WAY leaner as I need that to avoid overeating fat. It’s still not easy.

Even having something super lean is fine as long as the daily food is right for the one in question. Who cares if some part is super fatty or super lean? It’s no problem.
We just shouldn’t depend on too lean items too much. Or too fatty as we need enough protein too.

Carnivore may feel a bit restrictive anyway, no need to add rules we don’t necessarily need. Just be careful with too lean items, don’t use them in huge amounts unless it’s balanced out with enough fat.

#10

I think you best think one thing…super strict, the BBBE challenge? and other carnivore challenges can be very very strict and tough.

best ya come in and think 60 days to get results…so if you want longer you are better to come into this allowing ALL ZC foods that suit you well. overly tough restriction can throw one out of transitioning into this lifestyle easily. Eat very well, at all times you are hungry. Do not skimp ever. You are not hungry, don’t eat. Water only with your bit of coffee. Drop all weirdo supplements you are on and use salt as needed and see how you do day by day and just evaluate yourself as your body changes.

but remember, carnivore is a lifestyle and sometimes we don’t have to ‘be overly challenging to ourselves’ and try for some tough over the top goal when IF WE JUST enter this lifestyle and eat, we do so well and find ourselves healthier at the same time.

Wishing you the best and if ya want some good info, read this stuff:

alot of info on this thread all about zc. do a run thru if ya get a chance.

(Bill) #11

Yes of course… It’s not my phrase but have read it multiple times…
I tend to eat a snacky type meal mid afternoon (usually cold meat) then a bigger dinner in the evening. I fast until the first meal (just coffee with cream in the morning).

Edit to add I draw the line at humans of course…