Net carbs messing with ketosis?

Ketodrick · 2019-03-12 17:07:41 UTC

I’m using an app to track my diet. I had been doing really well keeping my carbs way under 20g (even though my app has 22g as the goal). But I haven’t been feeling all that different after a week. No keto flu, no change in energy, none of the supposed telltale signs. So this morning I went into my app and turned off the “count net carbs” setting. Whoa! All of the sudden my carbs are way over.

Here are my carbs (net in parentheses)

Day one: 22g (12)
Day two: 50g (18)
Day three: 38g (22)
Day four: 26g (15)
Day five: 28g (3)
Day six: 36g (14)
Day seven: 27g (16)
Day eight: 33g (20)
Day nine: 21g (20)

On the one hand, I guess I’m eating a lot of fiber. On the other, is counting net carbs potentially keeping me out of ketosis? I’m eating a lot of avocados and it seems with net carbs, they are a no no. 22.5g per avocado according to my app.

Azure · 2019-03-12 17:48:11 UTC

Hello, I personally count net carbs myself. I have been in ketosis the whole time (about 2 1/2 months) not everyone is alike.

What works for me may not work for you so, yes YOU may need to go by total carbs. Second thing is maybe change what you are eating?

Take a good look at your menu and see if you can switch for less carby options. Also you should post exactly what you are eating in a day, not just the total carbs. The more information the better.

Ketodrick · 2019-03-16 22:06:46 UTC

Here are the foods I ate on the day with the biggest discrepancy between net and actual carbs.

Azure · 2019-03-12 19:06:42 UTC

Hmmmn that avocado carb count seems high, I personally don’t eat avocados so I don’t know how much 1 is but when I put a whole avocado into my app it comes back as 7 carbs. Maybe someone else might know if that is accurate.

Alicia_Jimenez · 2019-03-12 19:29:03 UTC

Hi,

I do net carbs as well and I’m in ketosis. I try to get 25g of fiber per day - it slows down cholesterol absorption and lots of other gut benefits.

Depending on your age and liver quality, it could take a couple weeks to get into ketosis. My friend’s mother took two weeks and she’s in her late 40’s. And if you have a fatty liver, which I have, you lose weight slowly as your liver is slower at processing things.

I think you are doing great though. Most people on week 3 have a stall and will get a “swoosh” on week four. It’s where your fat cells replace the fat they lost with water.

Alex99 · 2019-03-12 19:37:36 UTC

“Net Carbs” work for most people most of the time, whereas “Total Carbs” are more sure and bound to work all the time, first time.

If you go with Total Carbs then you’d have half an avocado. They do contain plenty of fibre and most people don’t digest that fibre - but some people do.

You’re figures don’t look overly bad. Are you sure you’ve counted everything? Was it accurate? Sometimes we have to guess certain things, how much milk is in a cafe bought cappochino? Or we can’t find brand X in the app but they do have brand Y, however they’re very different for some reason…

Some people speak of “keto flu” as if it’s a requirement - it isn’t. If you get plenty of sodium you probably won’t even get it.

You may well be in ketosis. Give it another week or two and see.

xKetoMikex · 2019-03-12 20:42:47 UTC

Net carbs is the only measurement that makes sense IMO. Fiber is good for the digestion and does not increase insulin levels and is not broken down by and large. Net carbs for an entire avocado is about 3g. Not much when you consider the healthy fat and fiber you are getting. I eat half an avocado per day at lunch. Sometimes another half at dinner.

https://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fruits-and-fruit-juices/1843/2

https://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/calories/generic-1-whole-medium-avocado-82501442

CaptainKirk · 2019-03-12 21:21:46 UTC

LowCarb Denver 2019 had a session…
Your Intestines SENSE the carbs coming, and SIGNAL the pancreas to produce insulin.

I cannot count NET carbs. Now I know why.
While you still have a lot of weight to lose, you should pay attention to how your body responds.

I always recommend a glucose meter as well as a blood ketone meter, like Keto-Mojo… Fast, Eat, Test should be your motto.

Also, the above LCD report IMPLIED that because of this, FEWER Meals, without snacking probably helps a lot more than people realize. If your “sensors” are overly active, you could be squirting insulin EVERY Time you eat anything resembling a carb. And the more processed looking (sweet) the carb, the more insulin that gets pushed quicker.

Finally, always always always eat carbs/fiber AFTER consuming FAT and protein… It slows and greatly reduces the amount of insulin. And it is believed it could be simply because the sensors are covered in fat, or they body is smart enough to know that the carbs will hit the blood stream at a slower rate.

PS: Every Body is Different! YMMV! Test everything, Test Often! (While some people are okay with Nuts, they make me sick, break ketosis, and cause weight gain for ME. Does it matter that this result is not typical? Nope! All that matters is N=I (That’s an “i” as opposed to a 1, because they look alike, and it makes the point. When N=me, then that’s more important than N=1 for someone else, or a study not involving people EXACTLY like me!)

Ketodrick · 2019-03-12 22:15:18 UTC

So being on my 10th day, should I strive for actual carbs under 20g or keep goin with net carbs? I ordered some test strips which will be here Thursday. But is there any other, perhaps more reliable, tests that can tell if I’m in ketosis?

TBH, it’s going to be hard for me to keep under 20g if I can’t eat avocados. I feel like my protein will spike because I’ll eat more meat.

For the record, I’m 48 years old, but at 6 feet tall and 165lbs and fairly active, I’m not out of shape. My father is a type II diabetic, but he’s always been less active and had a much worse diet than I ever had. I’m not doing this to lose a lot of weight, although a bit off the midsection would be nice.

charlie3 · 2019-03-12 22:35:11 UTC

Over a year of keto all my carbs came from a large evening dinner salad. Every few months I weighed the individual veggies and put them in a recipe in crono to know the carbs and micros. I was shooting for 30-50 net carbs. A few months ago I became suspicious that net carbs wasn’t accurate.

For the past 2 weeks I’ve been eating zero carb to see what that’s like. Crono reports 6 total carbs, a gigantic improvement for carbs. I’ve been thinking that carnivore might be a viable way to get fat adapted fast then may be add carbs after a month or two.

KetoCancerMom · 2019-03-12 23:06:17 UTC

It does seem to be ok to eat veggies first/early in the meal.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The impact of food order on postprandial glycaemic excursions in prediabetes.

AP Shukla, M Dickison, N Coughlin, A Karan, E Mauer, W Truong, A Casper, AB Emiliano, RB Kumar, KH Saunders, LI Igel and LJ Aronne, Diabetes, obesity & metabolism, Feb 2019

Data suggest that nutrient order during a meal significantly impacts postprandial glucose and insulin excursions in type 2 diabetes, while its effects in prediabetes have not been reported. Fifteen participants with prediabetes consumed the same meal on 3 days in random order: carbohydrate first, followed 10 minutes later by protein and vegetables (CF); protein and vegetables first, followed 10 minutes later by carbohydrate (PVF); or vegetables first followed by protein and carbohydrate (VF). Blood was sampled for glucose and insulin measurements at 0, 30, 60, 90, 120, 150 and 180 minutes. Incremental glucose peaks were similarly attenuated by >40% in the PVF and VF meal conditions compared with CF. The incremental area under the curve for glucose was 38.8% lower following the PVF meal order, compared with CF, and postprandial insulin excursions were significantly lower in the VF meal condition compared with CF. The CF meal pattern showed marked glycaemic variability whereas glucose levels were stable in the PVF and VF meal conditions. Food order presents a novel, simple behavioural strategy to reduce glycaemic excursions in prediabetes.

xKetoMikex · 2019-03-13 00:46:23 UTC

Ditch the pistachios… Eat macadamias which are very low carb, almost the lowest among nuts, and full of healthy fat!

Also asparagus and bok choy are very low in carbs in comparison to brussels sprouts. Bok choy is really low and delicious sauteed.

Ketodrick · 2019-03-16 22:50:28 UTC

Here is today’s food. I ate leftover bacon wrapped pork tenderloin from last night for lunch and did crock pot pulled pork with just Frank’s Red Hot sauce. These macros are with the net carbs turned off. I’m not sure how much I trust number for tenderloin. It seems high in carbs for what it was, but that’s what the recipe said.

yi5hedr3 · 2019-03-13 14:44:50 UTC

Maybe too much Protein is the problem?

Ketodrick · 2019-03-13 15:26:51 UTC

I’ll be honest, I have NO IDEA how I can eat 1600 calories with under 20g gross carbs AND keep protein lower. Avocados had seemed like the ticket, but those things are gross carb bombs. The only way I feel I can get the calories without the gross carbs is meat and meat is loaded with protein. I’m open to suggestions.

KetoCancerMom · 2019-03-13 15:36:19 UTC

@Ketodrick This was my 1 meal yesterday (and a fatbomb to up my fat):

Ketodrick · 2019-03-13 15:39:02 UTC

@KetoCancerMom What is that as gross carbs?

KetoCancerMom · 2019-03-13 15:44:33 UTC

The salad dressing is:
2tbsp Olive Oil
2tbsp MCT Oil
2tbsp Apple Cider Vineger

KetoCancerMom · 2019-03-13 15:45:00 UTC

Carb Manager is listing it as about 18g of Total carbs.

I should note that I’m 5’2" and about 118lbs

Ketodrick · 2019-03-13 15:49:12 UTC

Oh I see, I missed the total carbs line.

You’re about the size of my wife. She’s 5’2”, 113. As I stated above, I’m 6’0”, 165. Ive been pretty diligent about tracking and I’ve read going over on protein isn’t too big of a deal. I’m surprised those mozzarella balls are more protein than a ribeye. Question: does the flax seed oil satiate you hunger? I don’t eat breakfast but I’m pretty hungry by noon.