My stall has lasted a year. Sadness

(Jim Scott) #1

About me:
I started Keto almost two years ago. I started by limiting net carbs to about 20g / day (usually gross carbs ~30g). I lost about 50 lbs over the next 14 months. There were a few minor stalls (a couple of weeks) but the trend was always down. I tested ketones at first with pee sticks and later a Keyto breath analyzer. While not wildly accurate they did show low-moderate Ketosis pretty much all the time. Since I was losing weight and my A1C dropped from 6.1 to 5.4 and my HDL rose I figured I was in the zone.

Then it stopped.
About that time (pandemic start) I changed a few things. For the better, I think.

  1. Eliminated all seed oils
  2. Started taking Vit D3/k2
  3. Started on blood pressure meds (I had very high blood pressure when I started Keto and it came down. But was still not good and so my doc put me on Metropolol, Amlodipine and Lisinopril)
  4. Started taking a high quality fish oil with high DHA/EPA. I rotate high quality brands in case I am wrong about the quality.

Since that time, about a year ago, I continue to eat 10-20g net carbs (25-35 gross carbs) just as before the stall. I also have experimented with a 16/8 intermittent fast a few times a week to see if it would break the stall. I have gained back about 6 pounds in the last 12 months but my A1C, lipids and blood pressure all continue to improve. I am still at 250 lbs and really need to drop this last 40-50 lbs! (6’ muscular male.)

I bought a blood glucose/ketone meter (keto mojo) and while my blood sugar is stable it is still a bit high (fasting - 100. stays 88-110… after meals peak is like 120) my Ketones measure pretty consistently 0.4. It is rare I go over 0.6. On intermittent fasting it’ll go to 0.6. Once I did a 24 hour fast and it hit 0.9. I have the dawn effect where my glucose is highest first thing in the morning but gets better as the day goes on.

I always have energy. Rarely get hungry. Never hangry. Carb cravings are almost non-existent. I’m loving all the whole, real foods. My macros (I track very well and always have) are like 5%-30%-65% Carb-Protein-Fat. My thinking is sharper than ever. As I say my blood tests and BP are all trending well. But I stay +/- 3 lbs of the same obese weight, week after week, month after month.

I have had this last 50 lbs for like 30 years. Is it possible that very old fat just can’t get unlocked? I know. Kinda crazy. But I am desperate to get back to losing the weight!

Suggestions?!?!?!

(Robin) #2

@Jim_Scott, It sounds to me like you are doing everything you possibly can. The only suggestion I would make is to forget net carbs and stay under 20 total carbs, period.

Also, I do not use the word stall, as that is only related to the scale. And the scale can not only play head games with you… it can remain “stalled” while your body IS recomposing and you are losing inches and fat. I had a one month stall and lost a pant size. Now, after 1 1/2 years, I may only lose a pound a month. But everything about my health has improved.

Don’t give up…. You’ll be receiving input throughout the day from lots of great keto and carnivore minds. Yoo got this. And we got you!

#3

No such thing as a year stall, only not doing what your body needs. Since you’re tracking all your macros what are you averaging daily for fats and protein? What’s your activity level? You’re clearly doing something right from the A1C and rising HDL, but seems you’re just eating over what your metabolism will allow. Don’t worry about ketone levels, they’re a waste of time. I almost never went about 0.3-.0.5 and lost 100lbs that way, the ketone levels don’t correlate with speed of fat loss so outside of a medical need they’re a useless metric.

You should get hungry, to me I read not much of a metabolism which fits with not losing for a year.

NOPE! It can 100% come off, but you gotta rework what you’re doing.

(Bob M) #4

I would mix things up. Try higher protein, lower fat for a while, a few weeks to a month. And this is easy to do: buy beef roasts like eye of round, top round, etc. Lower in fat, higher in protein.

If you’re eating dairy, eat less or eliminate. (I personally don’t seem to have a problem with dairy, but others do.)

Try eating higher animal fat, first, then eating protein. Here, I can’t help you, as I can’t find a fat that doesn’t upset my stomach. But if you look at Amber O’Hearn’s info, she can lay out what to do.

Do you fast? You could try some 36 hour fasts. You don’t want to overdo them, though.

(Jim Scott) #5

Typically (both when I was losing weight and now)

114g protein
15 g net carbs
13 g fiber
4 g sugars (whatever small amount is in cheese, mostly. I eat a lot of cheese! A bit from veggies like tomato)
182 g fat
67 g sat fat

3% net carbs
75% fat
21 % prot

tot Calories 2100
net calories 1700
(6’; 250 lbs so this should be a bit of a deficit)

Activity level… very light. Almost sedentary. A 20-30 minute light walk 2x a week. I used to get a lot of steps at work pre-pandemic walking around to people’s offices (I am a manager.) Been WFH since Mar 2020…

I guess my last things to experiment with is getting more exercise. I HATE exercise.

#6

If you were me, you’d stand no chance of losing at that much fat intake… like none! I couldn’t have mine any higher than 100g but more realistically like 80’s to keep burning fat off. I’d also up protein to to protect muscle during loss (as well as bone mass).

Many of us have had much better luck with higher protein and lower fat, all around, not just with fat loss. I also wouldn’t net down your walks, let them just account for more of a deficit that you don’t have to think of. Plus is at 6’ 250 really isn’t bad, no doubt it’ll come off man.

If that doesn’t get the scale dropping consider you may have a bad starting point at your RMR/TDEE, When I was at my worst with an active job, and the gym 5-6 days a week both lifting and cardio I had mine measured at a little over 1700! Took a year of reverse dieting to fix it, now in the 3000’s but would have treaded water forever if I didn’t have that checked as every macro calc on the planet had me around 2400-2600.

(Joey) #7

@Jim_Scott Greetings and welcome to the forum!

For starters, it sounds like you’re doing great and have made superb progress along the way. You’re feeling better, energized, brought your a1c down, and aren’t depriving yourself of satisfyingly good, healthy food.

Question: Just how “overweight” do you believe you are? Many of us have ideas in our head about the body type we should have … as opposed to the body type we actually do have. When you refer to that obese weight you’re struggling with, can you please clarify a bit?

As for plateaus, yeah, if it took many years (decades) to put your body and inner metabolism in a certain state, it could take longer than you might wish to undo internal damage and move things toward a better place.

But meanwhile, it sure sounds like you’re doing the right things to get there. Keto on! :vulcan_salute:

(Laura) #8

I was not only stuck; I started gaining weight. So, I made some tweaks and the one that seemed to do the trick was to reduce my Heavy Whipping Cream intake.
Once I did that and added some walks during the week, I dropped 20 pounds over the past year.

It may be that you need to reduce your cheese intake. It hurts nothing to experiment. For me, I think I was eating all the fat I needed (and then some), so my body was not drawing on the stored fat.

(Jim Scott) #9

No, unfortunately I am really overweight. It is almost all in the belly (liver enzymes and GFR are good; but could still be fatty liver, even after nearly two years of Keto.) I have much more than a ‘handful’ and I wear waist 42 pants (36/38 in college at 205 lbs; peaked at waist 52 330lbs prior to Keto!) My doc and cardiologist say it is the most important thing for me to concentrate on (now that my A1c and lipids are good! My cardio has finally stopped pushing for statins!)

It could very well be as many said that for me the fat % needs to come down - and reduce dairy. I was hearing how proteins can inhibit ketosis if eaten in large amounts so I was sticking to high fat. Every body is different. Maybe I can still reduce insulin resistance but eat 60% fat 35% proteins - and lose weight!

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #10

50 lbs of 30 year-old fat that won’t move sounds like a symptom. Have you had thyroid function tested? I suspect a sluggish thyroid - even if still within the normal range - changes the game completely. Reducing fat, increasing protein intake and exercise might boost your metabolism; reducing overall food intake by a couple hundred calories might get the onboard stowage moving again; eliminating potential problem foods might help. But if your thyroid is not doing it’s job you’re fighting a losing battle unless you deal with it. When you do so, get your growth hormones, testosterone and estrogen tested as well. If GH and T are lower and estrogen higher than normal you’ll have to fix those as well.

#11

We are what we eat and what changes we allow from our start plan.

BACK TO THE most simple basics of what your Keto plan was, where you thrived.

We all can easily ‘allow’ so it boils down to what is going in your mouth.

Back to simple basics and control and just get back to the start, works for all of us and there isn’t any ‘tweaking or wondering or changing’ IF ONE goes back to the plan, clean eating, all in again :slight_smile:

worked for me all times when I wondered what is wrong, nothing wrong at all, eating too much, allowing off plan eating a tad too much, a few alcohol drinks too many :slight_smile:

this might or not might not fit you but it is clear to me that when ALL of us go back to bare bone basics we thrive again!

(Marianne) #12

I detest exercise, too, and am pretty sedentary. I kind of enjoy light weight training (occasional 30-minute workout at Planet Fitness), but forget cardio. I’ve never liked it.

I don’t have much input but have read what others have posted and they gave some good suggestions. Maybe limit or eliminate the cheese (for now), eat leaner protein like @ctviggen mentioned (eye or round roasts are relatively inexpensive and delicious!), and maybe try to reduce your calories a bit. Also, I wouldn’t track ketones, blood sugar or weight, but that’s just me. Good luck!

(Marianne) #13

Good advice. I still have ten lbs. I’d like to drop and need to pay more attention to the amount of fat I consume. I love fat and if we eat a leaner piece of meat like eye roast or regular pork chops, I’ll add a big dollup of bacon grease to it. Delicious but probably not helping me shed these last few pounds. Will give it a try, that and eating more chicken.

(Marianne) #14

:sob: Oh, it hurts me to hear that, although, I suspect you’re right. I have four coffees a day (two regular in the AM and two decaf in the PM), I think mainly because of the HWC and small amount of Splenda I put in. I definitely could get rid of that.

(Joey) #15

Don’t mean to be contrary, but just to clarify:

We are what we don’t poop out.
Otherwise, all of us fat-eaters would be fat. :wink:

(Robin) #16

Marianne, if you do get rid of that, we will no longer be twins separated at birth. I’ve decided my coffee (same way you make it) is my line in the sand.

(Marianne) #17

Don’t say it, girlll - just because I’m considering giving it up doesn’t mean I don’t love it! :sob::laughing:

(Alec) #18

Nobody has mentioned yet your meds. I understand that some meds can generate an insulin response in some people. Your story says that you were losing consistently until you made those changes. As that was when you stopped losing, I would be looking at what you changed around then.

3 of your 4 changes look good/harmless to weight loss to me. But the meds could be the problem. Is your BP under control enough now to do a stint with no meds and see how you go? If I was in your position, this is what I would try.

Best of luck.
Cheers
Alec

#19

Don’t be shy of upping the protein “because ketosis” - I think the so-called threat of gluconeogenesis is often greatly and unnecessarily exaggerated in this community. You may be reassured after watching this presentation by Dr Ben Bikman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3fO5aTD6JU

#20

oh I meant it in context of it could take alot of time for the person being older and starting keto to truly heal their body internally. So we are what we eat means decades of SAD eating could have ruined metabolism and insides that need more heal time, etc. That was my swing on it but I didn’t clarify that part enough :slight_smile:

Simple Keto basics. Best forward path.