My son just started. Do his macros look good?

(Chris) #21

Hey, I’m in my second week of keto. I’ve dropped 12 pounds roughly (I know it’s mostly water but still feels nice). I just want some reassurance because there are many different keto calculators and I don’t know my exact body fat percentage. I also hear different things regarding protein. Any advice would be great!

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(Chris W) #22

age, sex, height, weight, actively level.

(Chris) #23

27, male, 5"5, 168 (180 before i started), I move a lot at work and walk 10 km 3 or 4 days a week

(TJ Borden) #24

Boy, that’s not a post you want to skim…

I couldn’t figure out what sex activity level had to do with it, but I was intrigued.

(Chris W) #25

I use ruled me,

I always use maintain. I used moderate on yours and your numbers look fine.
The carb goal is too high but I see you are not making it.
Every 10 pounds recalculate you macros, it will slow down some.
BF can be calculated several ways, most males run between 13-25% I use an omron fat gamepad, its around $30 us. If you don’t monitor it the data is not real useful, there other ways to figure it out as well. Visually, there are several sites I have found to be accurate for my body fat in comparison.

Protein at your age and weight is not all that critical at the moment, I tell most people to start at 1.0 and if you keep your ketones up there if you are monitoring then you are ok. My protien is all over the map, but at first I was pretty high. Most people have a lot of cellular damage that needs to get healed. At the moment the real big thing is to keep the ketones moving and that is accomplished by keeping carbs low. If you hold on until fat adaption you can loosen up the diet a little if you would like. I lost 22 pounds in 10 days, 26 in 33. I cut my fat intake about 3-4 weeks in and my loss slowed down and my energy was crap. So stay at maintain, eat to satiety once you understand that, otherwise full. Don’t leave the table hungry, up your salt and the more active you are try and eat more fat.

(Chris) #26

Thanks for answering!
Quick question,
How will I know when I am fat adapted (rough time frame)? Is there a way to know without testing blood or breath? What sites did you find helpful for visual guessing of BF. What is the best way to rest ketones?
Also, I just have my carbs set hi but my net carbs are always below 30g a day.

(Chris W) #27

Quick answer no,
Longer answer its mostly based on hunger and energy, if you excerise esp cardio based you will notice a recovery of energy. If you doing workouts it will not be as noticable after a few weeks maybe 6 you will start to recover energy. Its not a light switch, its a lamp getting brighter. This is were the body health really plays in, some people have done it in a couple weeks, most of us its 8 weeks. And that is keeping the ketones up there, every day you are low or none even worse the longer its going to take.

(Chris W) #28

I just searched the internet for male body fat visual they are all about the same.

(TJ Borden) #29

Careful there. You might not like what you find, or you might. To each his own.

(Chris) #30

Thanks again!
I assume when you say full you don’t mean, “eat until you can’t”. How do you test your ketones personally? Is the breathe thingy ok? Blood test better? Any particular brands for that stuff?

#31

:joy:

(Ken) #32

You can be fairly sure that at least 10 pounds, if not all, was glycogen. A reasonable amount for someone your size. Since your glycogen is gone, you can be reasonably certain you’re now in lipolysis.

So called “Keto Calculators” are subjective, depending on whoever designed them. You are easily lipolytic as long as your daily Carb intake is below five percent. Having said that, the whole point is to burn fat for fuel, you want your fat intake to be at least 60%. If you do that, it gives you a moderate, 35% protein macro, a topic endlessly debated here, usually while citing some guru advocating dogma with fairly low protein and eating “fat to satiety”. That can work, but it often results in an absurdly high fat intake that, IMO can lead to stalls later on. So, high fat is fine initially, but as your body adapts it burns it more efficiently so fat loss slows or stops.

Protein intake is more dependant on activily level, as someone sedentary has different requirements than those that are active or training. Protein is best used for cellular repair, maintenance and growth rather than energy, but in reality eating a 60/35% macro keeps protein to it’s proper function. In addition, and IMO men do better on a little higher level. So, calculators are subjective, not Holy Writ. It usually takes at least two weeks for initial adaptation, usually longer, with a loss of between one two two pounds of fat loss (on average, it won’t be linear) after that.

Since now you know that in reality you have much wider latitude than professed keto dogma, you can do a little self experimentation if you stall (at least two weeks) and not freak out if you deviate from the calculators.

I highly doubt the keeping ketone levels high leads to fat adaptation. The vast amount of energy for the body is coming from fatty acids, not ketones. The issue is Lipolysis, not merely ketosis. Besides, it’s not “Fat Adaptation” it’s actually “adapting out” of a Carb based pattern. It’s reduction and eventual normalization of Anorexigenic Hormone Resistive States. It’s about not eating carbs, but you do need the fat for fuel.

(Chris) #33

That’s exactly what i needed to hear. “Don’t worry if you deviate slightly from the calculator” on I’ve been over thinking it. Thanks!

(Chris W) #34

Keeping ketones active leads to cellular activation of the fat usage in the cells mitochondria along with low insulin, several of the doctors who frequent the dudes say this. This also has something to so with mitophagy but I don’t think anyone really has done much research on it yet. Its much like a hormonal signal, such as insulin save its not a hormone.

(Ken) #35

I completely understand that that’s the theory. But there’s not much evidence. A 60/35/5% macro, even with a 500 Cal per day deficit will enable adaptation. That’s the practice.

(Ron) #36

Theory or not, my personal experiences are when I consume 35% protein in my day, my ketone production stops (down to .02 or less) and doesn’t start again for about 6 hours. BG levels elevate about 25% . Were I not adapted this would have surely hindered my progress to adaption.

(Ken) #37

Adaptation into what? Ketosis? That’s not the point. It is adaptation into sustained Lipolysis, not Ketosis. You still burn fat while showing low ketones. Ketone levels are fairly irrelevant as long as you’re still in Lipolysis.

(TJ Borden) #38

Exactly correct, but the threshold for getting to/maintaining a lipolytic state depends on how metabolically deranged you are.

Given that @Blue1’s kid is so young, you’re probably correct that he can be a little more liberal with percentages and get there just fine.

(Ken) #39

The lipolytic state is not determined by ketone levels.

(TJ Borden) #40

I agree, and I’m not saying it is. Im just saying that much like ketosis, the macros that allow a person to achieve and/or maintain lipolysis is going to vary based on their metabolic derangement.

I’ve never measured ketone levels and don’t plan on starting.

I’ve actually been tempted to start telling people that I’m following a Lipolytic way of eating because “keto” has become just maintstream enough that I don’t even like using the term in public anymore.

Throwing out a term someone has never heard of when explaining what I’m doing generally doesn’t immediately earn a rolling of the eyes.