My sharply rising CAC score - and why I'm staying the keto course 🖖

(B Creighton) #101

There are multiple factors.

  1. You can eat oxidized LDL. I don’t know how much dietary LDL the body typically digests and absorbs, but the liver may fix some of the oxidized dietary cholesterol you ingest. If it is oxidized, the liver may be able to “fix” it before it gets incorporated into an LDL particle. I really do not know this, but until I know better specifics, it is best to avoid oxidizing my animal foods. Plant foods are actually not cholesterol free, but typically have much less cholesterol than animal foods, but they do have polyunsaturated fats which are fairly easily oxidized. Storing and cooking animal foods have a large impact on their oxidation. Fried restaraunt chicken is a really bad idea. They tend to reuse the oil for hours, and it becomes odixized and hydrogenated. Poultry and pork meats have more potential to have their fats oxidized as they have more polyunsaturated fats than red meats. Fish is higher yet - both the omega 3 and omega 6 polyunsaturated fats can become easily oxidized. Canned tuna is broken into small chunks and is exposed to the air before canning. It is highly oxidized, and is to be avoided. Freezing meat has a high potential to become oxidized. To lessen this I now only buy sealed fish for freezing - essentially or close to vacuum packed - or I eat it as fresh as possible. I have a vacuum packer for my other meats. Deli and processed meats are going to be highly exposed to air, and are more oxidized. Refrigerating leftovers and reheating them greatly increases the oxidized level.
    It has been shown that oxidized polyunsaturated fats lead to higher LDL oxidation rates - probably because the liver puts that fat into the LDL particle for “shipping”, and eventually the protein shell becomes oxidized. Do not cook animal foods at high temperatures. The oxidation process is highest at 300 F. I do not cook my meats any higher than necessary - I usually look for an internal temperature no higher than 160 F.
    Grass fed beef has a much better omega 6 to omega 3 ratio BTW.

  2. Avoid refined polyunsaturated oils for reasons stated above. Because they are refined, they are already coming partially oxidized and even hydrogenated. I believe vegans and vegetarians who eat refined oils because they believe the saturated fat hype still get strokes and heart disease for this reason. When Ancel Keys made his recommendations to avoid saturated fat to lessen heart disease, Crisco was much more likely to be the real culprit. Also, on the top of my bad list are margarines, fried foods and fast foods.

  3. Do the Keto, saturated fat thing. I cook with coconut oil, butter, and olive oil to a lesser degree. When I use olive oil, I do not set the temp higher than 300 F. Saturated fats are much more stable, and less likely to be oxidized, and so probably won’t be oxidized when packed into the LDL particle by the liver. I hardly bake at all, but I bought some grape seed oil for my wife to use ocassionally. It has a very high smoke point so at least is not going to hydrogenate. It also is not GMO like virtually all the other seed oils are - unless they say non-GMO - so is not going to have glyphosate residues.

  4. Eat more wild seafood and grass fed meats to get more omega 3s to balance out the omega 6s. Get omega 6s from natural sources in whole foods.

  5. The Keto, low carb, low blood sugar thing is going to reduce glycated LDL. gLDL is much more likely to become oxidized, and oxidizes much faster than native LDL, so is to be avoided. High blood sugar is strongly correlative and causally related to heart disease mainly for this reason.

  6. Do the Hippocratic thing. Let food be thy medicine. Stick to whole foods in their natural forms. Avoid processed, boxed, and labeled foods which are full of seed oils, sugar, etc.

  7. Do not smoke or drink…Yeah, I know all you partiers.

(Bacon enough and time) #102

I just found a recent lecture by Paul Mason, a sports physician in Melbourne, on the causes of cardiovascular disease. In it, he states that higher HDL helps to keep red blood cells from clumping and clotting, whereas oxidised LDL promotes them. So it appears that oxidised LDL may be a causal factor, because it increases the coagulability of the blood, and the blood clots are what cause atherosclerosis.

(Joey) #103

If this weren’t a keto forum, I’d have suggested using a spoiler alert.

(Bacon enough and time) #104

Here’s the lecture by Dr. Mason:

(Michael) #105

Well, this is one of the few items whereby all the top conventional lipidologists like Dayspring (see his 5 part series with Peter Attia for his take - iirc it was in part 4 or 5 in which the uselessness of oxldl serum test) and the low carb cardiologists, such as Nadir Ali and in addition to Ken Berry (cannot find link atm - listened to something with him last week noting the same), Saladino etc all agree, that oxidized ldl in the blood is not concordant with oxldl in the intima. There are many references, and I do not have a lot of time to summarize my previous research on your behalf. Chris Masterjohn talking about oxidizing environment within the intima . In other words, except for a few older videos by Mason, it is pretty much agreed upon by almost all the doctors/specialists I have been listening too that oxldl that oxidizes within the intima is the oxldl of concern. That is not to say that none of the oxldl within the blood gets trapped in the intima, simply that the function of ldl is to indeed take up the oxidative stress within the intima as part of it’s job. And the monocytes/macrophages job is to then clear and break down the oxldl until it’s parts are removed via hdl (hopefully). Regardless, I am just giving the viewpoint that I have read many times and that I have come to accept (from starting with your viewpoint a year ago), feel free to disregard if you do not like this train of thought.

(B Creighton) #106

Thank you Michael. I am not interested in disregarding valid points. I am interested in the scientific truth of the matter, and I just haven’t seen any science as to how LDL is supposed to get into the intima if not from the bloodstream. It’s design is to carry fats and cholesterol through our water based blood in the blood vessels. I really doubt it is designed as a de-oxidizing agent for the body. OxLDL is plainly and highly correlated to heart disease. If the number is in the 200 range, the person is virtually always going to have heart disease. This guy says the chance of getting heart disease by eating seed oils is about the same as getting cancer if you smoke. It is about seventeen more times likely. There are other factors. Blood clotting is a factor, but if a plaque ruptures into the blood vessel, it is going to form a clot. Also as I mentioned genetically abnormally small particles can increase CVD risks. I am not trying to win an argument. I am just simply looking for the evidentiary truth, and this is what I’ve found.

(Bacon enough and time) #107

Ravnskov and Diamond suggested, in one of their papers, that the entry into the intima is not from the arterial blood itself, but from the capillaries of the vasa vasorum. It has far less distance to travel, if it comes in that way. Otherwise, it doesn’t make sense how it gets from the glycocalyx all the way through to the outer intima.

(B Creighton) #108

I don’t know my anatomy well enough offhand to argue with this. Yeah, the capillaries are probably where it gets started, because the blood flow is lower in the capillaries, and the LDL particle is more likely to get lodged there in the capillary walls, and maybe even shoved into the walls by white and red blood cells passing through the capillaries. That makes some sense to me, and this is where we see strokes in the brain and stuff. Capillaires are still blood vessels and carry LDL particles.