Mostly committed but I have to admit I am still shaky with Carnivore


(Jackie) #1

I have been an ‘experimental carnivore’ since 19/7/2021 so about 6 weeks and started due to an IBS flare.
Since starting I have felt better with fewer gut cramps but my bathroom experience is very ‘fluid’ :poop::potable_water:. I am wondering when, if ever this will stop.
My stats;
57y/o. F . 5’1. SW 80kg. CW 75kg.
I am eating 2MAD Lamb, Steak, Pork, Burgers, Bacon, cheese (a slice on a burger) and rarely Chicken as it does not satiate. I have included cabbage (1-2 tablespoons) 3 times with no cramping affects. I have a coffee daily with cream (1-2 tablespoons).
The weight loss has been really nice but I am am worried about my gut. How will I know when to start reintroducing foods?
I guess I am really looking to understand why my poop is so fluid as I am trying to heal an IBS flare.
I have read on here many long haulers are happy to continue this away of eating due to the amazing benefits though I am not sure I can see myself eating this way forever.


(Robin) #2

Are you taking magnesium citrate, by any chance? Many of us do and that can happen… bit the dosage can be adjusted. BUT… I’ve heard many people talk about “keto poop” too. By the way, I have Diverticulitis and Keto has helped me tremendously. I know that’s different from IBS tho. Good luck to you. You can probably wait it out as many things adjust and change when we go keto or carnivore. But poop is a common topic on here, LOL, so I’m sure you’ll get some reassurance or answers on here. Good luck to you!


(Jackie) #3

Hey Robin,
So glad you have had relief from your diverticulitis.
I am taking magnesium malate 3.750mg x 2 at night as a sleep aid.
Perhaps I will cease and see if that helps.


(Old Baconian) #4

Don’t over do the salt, either. A number of long-term carnivores have found that they get enough salt in their food and have no need for added salt. If you back off the salt and start to be constipated, then increase your salt a bit. You may need to experiment a bit to find your sweet spot.


(Robin) #5

Then yes yes yes… it can definitely be that. I personally am ok with that (too plus the gurgling and churning sometimes) because I feel like I get “cleaned out” every day.


(Marianne) #6

I can’t give you anything near a biological explanation for this, but there are others here who I am sure can and will. I can only offer my personal experience. I started carnivore on or about Feb. 19, 2021. For several months, my bowel movements were fluid. It wasn’t diahreaha (sp?), but just fluid. I had no cramping beforehand, just the need to go, which I would, and then I was clean until the next time. Probably in June, my bowel movements started to become solid and very minimal. It was not unusual to go 2-3 days without having one. I was slightly concerned about why they were so infrequent and minimal, considering the amount of meat I was eating. I ate once a day, but I’d eat a large amount of meat at my meal. Anyway, it has continued that way and I’m okay with it. I believe I read here, and I attribute it to the fact that my body is absorbing and using most of what I am eating, and there is very little waste left over after that. This once again reinforces for me that carnivore seems to be a very efficient way of eating. Better yet, I enjoy it and I don’t miss the few non-carnivore things I did eat on regular keto.

I’m sure others will respond and ease your concerns. Best to you on your journey!


#7

This is one of those hard to post advice wanted threads cause when one is ‘mostly committed’ you can’t expect real results and real changes to 'follow those of an ‘all in carnivore menu’ for people tackling the change the correct way into this lifestyle.

So think of it this way…best recommendation to come into carnivore is meat and water. No dairy…dairy is to be dropped to give your meat/seafood/fish and fowl a change to work its magic and heal the body and it takes time for that, so recommendation is drop all dairy AND ALL condiments truly when starting. Next recommendation is drop ALL supps you are taking and this could be a few from mag to a multi vitamin to fish oil pills or MCT in coffee to ??? we don’t know but recommendation for best learning to eliminate and find truths about us is dump it all and come in clean into this lifestyle.

So if one comes into it with dairy and using some cabbage and using some ketchup and using that cream in coffee…also ‘coffee being a hmmm into this plan’ when recommendations are mostly ‘beef and water’ to find the best truths for our bodies…it again is that darn hard call to ‘find reasons’ why things ‘are off’

BUT fat content can show us alot. Too much fat…loose stool. Too lean, the stool can be hard and less frequent to come out. Then ya got the ‘guts changing over’ and all this fat intake is just gonna have its way and then ya got ‘do you have any medical issues’ or ‘food allergy’ issues that were bad for you that you know of in your personal past that isn’t being posted?

Fat adaption for our entire body, guts included and the most effected as we know, takes time…sometimes way more than we want of course…then what supps are ya taking we don’t know…then what ‘little tastes, nibbles, treats, or a spoonful of this or that’ extra food that isn’t what the carnivore lifestyle entails comes into play??

then Jackie you say in the post you want to re-introduce foods? but carnivore is a lifestyle that requires time to heal hormones, become carnivore fat adapted, heal guts, change the entire body thru TIME on plan so?? Normal recommedations are a full 90 days to learn about us on this plan so if we go less than that, we just don’t know what can be effecting us so?

it is kinda that very very hard row to sow in that you want to get back to other foods but you never got ‘the carnivore changes or healed’ as with what time needs on this plan so again, it hits that ‘not enough time or hardcore commitment’ into this plan to learn truths that suit you or fit your needs ya know :sunny:

then your fat intake…lamb is a ‘very greasy’ fat and different than a beef fat and a pork fat…it is a different kind of fat coming into your body so is the fat intake a good one or bad one for you mostly? See we all react to different fat intake on a personal body difference, but if one isn’t kinda just doing —this meat only for a few days, and then trying another meat we kinda tend to ‘not know if pork suits us best while adapting or if beef suits us best’ or does just some good ol’ chicken with skin is our choice that works best as we change.

it is ok if you wanna go back but your 6 weeks or so into carnivore is showing one thing…you don’t have enough time on plan to show you real truths of what the plan can do for you and then it is that tough decision to pony up and go all in hardcore carnivore to ‘see what it does’ or do you back up more back into keto?

ok just some thoughts cause these are the posts that are super hard to give advice regarding the carnivore lifestyle…new people have to commit all in, find truths, see differences, feel and ‘go thru’ alot while detox/adaption happens but can they give the time it requires.

one of our best people to do this was @VirginiaEdie. I gotta say, she came into carnivore and worked the plan and ‘found what suited’ her best with a full on 6 mos. into this plan and learned more about herself and that is the commitment sometimes it does take :slight_smile:

Just saying sometimes a short walk into anything we take from a health change to job change or life change of anything takes way more time to learn outcomes than the ‘timeline we force’ on it.

Sending good vibes and wishing you the best of the best to find your way forward and what suits your personally!!


(Robin) #8

If being regular is important, I would not stop the magnesium, I would try half the amount.


(Edith) #9

I’m curious: why are you adding in cabbage? If you truly want to see how carnivore works for you, I would even stop the cabbage.

With that said, I will mention that electrolytes are a tricky one. I needed to supplement extra salt on keto and I need to supplement extra salt on carnivore. That need has not gone away. I thought I could decrease my salt, but I could not and actually ran into a lot of problems as a result of trying to cut back on my salt intake. I seem to need an extra 1.5-2 teaspoons a day and that does not include the sodium I get from the food I eat.

I tend to have loose stools on carnivore, but a big part of that is from my magnesium intake. My body seems to need extra magnesium. If I cut back on my Mg, I have firm stools but then I get heart palpitations. I’d rather have loose stools than the heart palpitations. I believe this could be due to mineral depletion due to oxalate dumping but I will mention that further down.

The runs could also be a result of your shifting microbiome. The intestinal flora does not change over night. Even if you were keto before going carnivore, you biome still has to adapt. I will also add that if you were not keto and went straight to carnivore, your body also needs to adjust to digesting the high amount of fat in your diet.

Another possibility is oxalate dumping. Oxalates are toxins found in certain plants, particularly nuts, berries, and leafy greens that can build up in our bodies. When we switch to only meat, we suddenly put ourselves on a no oxalate diet and our body goes into purge mode. Diarrhea can be a symptom of oxalate dumping among a plethora of other symptoms. There has been much discussion on this forum about oxalates and you can find a lot of information about it on the web.


(Jackie) #10

Yes the gurgling and churning is so real!


(Jackie) #11

Thanks for your gracious honesty Fangs.
I guess my ‘mostly committed’ comes from my vision for life going forward. For context the ‘experiment’ has conveniently happened during lockdown. I am in Sydney Australia in lockdown which means I can leave my house for 1 hour a day to exercise and buy essentials. I am able to feed myself MEAT with no questions from anyone. My partner is supportive.

How do carnivores socialise shared meals and so on are they only with other carnivores? Perhaps lack of imagination on my part but explaining the whole carnivore thing to share a meal just sounds exhausting.
For me I tried this in an effort to get my IBS under control. Honestly I can says the only things I have consumed are the things I have listed.

At this stage while still in lockdown I can see me continuing. Having read a few posts on this forum I see some people come to carnivore for a short time and presto years later are still here.
One never knows that could be my story.
:cut_of_meat:


(Jackie) #12

Hey Virginia,
I guess boredom led me to put some on my plate. I know that is weird because …cabbage seems a strange addition but it is low in carbs at least.


(Jackie) #13

I am pleased to report I did not take mag last night and this morning I have a little less gurgling and not so much action in the bathroom.
Happy days.
Onwards :blush:


(Linda ) #14

I think you can go out to dinner. order things like bbq ribs at a BBQ reastaurant sauce on the side
Shrimp cocktail ask for melted butter rather than the cocktail sauce
Omelet, steak and eggs, sausage and eggs…steak and salad…just don’t eat the salad or get it on the side…or a normal meal and pass the extras your husband… a burger just don’t eat the bread… bacon and eggs…
Or go to a smorgasbord and bring back a plate of different meats…as long as you got food on your plate I don’t think ppl really watch what your eating.
And if ppl ask just tell them you just didn’t feel overly hungry or say I just thought the meat dishes looked delicious…


#15

wow that lockdown situation sounds super tough for sure! yikes

but for this lifestyle change if one does go into carnivore full in and want this life, we work ALL around eating situations.

you go somewhere there is no eating options, then we do not eat. Like Azi mentioned, any other place we can ‘carnivore style up’ any restaurant or shared meals IF meat is involved, if not, don’t eat is as simple as it gets for us. The old eat before you go very well and just say no thanks when food is offered, or if a meal that has no meats, ask the person can you bring a roast, or can you bring a few racks of ribs or can you bring meat for you…believe me US carnivores are not shy on telling it like it is LOL

You kinda put into your brain this little idea of…if I was allergic to shellfish and I went to a party and all there was is shellfish, would anyone expect me to eat it and have to go to the hospital and maybe die? nope. If I said I was gluten sensitive would anyone then expect me to eat gluten foods by the buckets…nope. If you say you are diabetic would anyone expect you to sit down at a bakery and suck down tons of sugar pastry? nope

but see those are all validated issues…medical issues…heaven forbid anyone says just ‘I desire to not eat anything but meat’ and you get the idiot stares of what the heck is wrong with you? and don’t do it and you gonna die maybe on not eating veg and more HAHA People then feel they can sling opinions and accusations and advice willy nilly but if you say I have a medical condition they back down super fast…you say you want carnivore for your health, they feel fine to jump all over you LOL
I tell ya people are nutso in a way if ya think about it but in the end, you have to do you!! You walk thru eating times as you must, you don’t give in, you stick to your guns and you just say…whatever and shrug your shoulders and think, hey they can eat what they want and I eat only what I want and hold your lifestyle any way you can.

that is all my conclusions that fit me in the end of it all I guess.

I have been into this change a good while, I kinda walked all those issues and get this…last time eating out I said I want my double cheeseburger on no bread, no fries, put those on another plate for my husband to eat and the waitress looks at me and says are you zero carb? I got all excited and say YEA I AM and she said she has seen that plan around the 'net and it looked interesting and of course I said it saved my happy butt HAHA

Our carnivore lifestyle is ever so slowly getting understood by more people out there now…which is nice to see…so just do you is the final thing in your eating for yourself and forget judgements or anything else that comes against you…they mean squat in the big scheme of things. Your health choices on eating is all you, no one will ever be what you need in your eating for health so the advice they sling at ya really is just a waste of breath in the long run :slight_smile:

Super glad with no mag you are finding yourself better. Drop all added supps you want to take and let those guts just clear out and react on real food and then see how ya do :sunny:


#16

I am totally with Fangs, it’s about your health even if you aren’t actually medically sensitive to the plants… It’s so silly you have all right to eat 30 slices of cakes (I did that on a contest once, some were tiny and low-carb but still…) but refusing plants is odd?
Oh I wish I could shock or handle your acquaintances, I surely never was shy to talk about my woe ever and a debate sounds so cool but I rarely meet people! And I never lie as it would be the end of the word if me, a honest person would lie about not important things like not showing something perfectly normal to other people :smiley: I could still hide my reason, saying “I don’t want”, “I don’t tell”… But why would I?
But you don’t need to explain anything to anyone if you don’t want. Just say you liked your option the best… But you may say it does the most good to you or whatever. There are usually many options to deflect and hide while being truthful and if we refer to our well-being, maybe people understand it more. I really don’t feel right if I sugar poison myself so avoiding a lot of carbs is basic and I clearly would be an idiot (and a bad hedonist, oh no! :scream:) not to do that. They make me hungry and way less controlled too, definitely a bad idea, other people’s little comfort and opinion can’t compare.
I very rarely attended events with food and never work lunches/dinners and my family usually have good options for me so I can’t fully understand your difficulties but I surely wouldn’t choose a big bunch of carby food when I can just eat nothing. It may be tricky in certain situations, thankfully never with family, it’s family, if I choose not eating anything at a Xmas dinner (or just my own food), it’s my right and I doubt it would cause a problem (I have a good family but I have experience with saying NO to certain foods causing family members very upset… never moved me, it was their problems, clearly, it’s my life). I never went that far yet but I can imagine I will next time. I already didn’t touch most of the food in the last years. If I ate something carby, I made an educated decision and enjoyed it without bad consequences. But I change and those things can’t enthrall me so easily anymore. It makes things way easier.
If an event isn’t where everyone sits and have their food (possibly everyone the same, to make things worse) but there are many options and people walk and stand and talk, it’s easier to get away with no eating (if there are zero good options… I attended many with only baked goods but it was before carnivore and I always relaxed my ways on those rare days as it worked good enough occasionally and I was tempted. I came a long way since) and no one batting an eye.

You really should eat in a way that suits you. It’s your body, your health, your decision! You must be on your own side, not letting social pressure interfere with your health and well-being! I am very much against people forcing their ideals regarding eating, drinking (and most other things) on others.

Maybe I wrote too much but my feelings is very strong regarding this topic. Choosing a worse woe just because some peer pressure? Sounds wrong and well, it probably is.


#17

Preach it! :100:

There is never anything wrong about the word selfish if it puts your health and well being as being balanced in your life in these situations…I had to learn just that.

Selfish is so negative but in truth it isn’t actually in a good way—but that word truly is never focused on in a positive way anymore…sad truly but it is what it is but to the original poster, being selfish to help yourself thru a health issue is never wrong, ever!


(Bob M) #18

Instead of cabbage, have you considered fermented cabbage, ie, sauerkraut? Some believe that’s more helpful for IBS.

Obviously, if you’re fully carnivore, then you wouldn’t eat sauerkraut. I just think that not everyone has to go fully carnivore to treat something like IBS.


#19

@ctviggen
agree.

but to me that IBS IS SUCH an over used useless and blanket statement medical term that means they don’t know what the hell is effecting your body…do you kinda agree wtih that? Let’s crank out meds for others to pay to ‘fix’ this constipation, bloating, gassy, diarehaa and all crap that is truly associated with food choices one is probably sensitive or absolutely allergice to? :sunny: and I say this in good form chat.

in that food is us and we are food intake so? but that never will come into play…IBS covers a ton of gut issues and yet has never been narrowed down to anything by med professionals in that they lump it in and say live with it. IBS…so useless a term if ya ask me but there are tons of pills to fix us :slight_smile:

again just a chat on it in good form


(Jackie) #20

Yes you are right ! Thank you.