MOOvember Carnivore


(Megan) #82

We have Guy Fawkes here in New Zealand but no one gives a thought to the meaning. Some folks just enjoy setting off fireworks.

Hopped on the scales this morning, lost another 1.1kg. That’s a total of 14.5kg (32 pounds) now since the 23rd May this year. Weight loss has definitely slowed but it’s still happening. Sometimes I feel a bit frustrated and wonder if I should actually go “on a diet” (i.e. eat less) but I know that is wrong thinking. I just worked out my weight loss per week and feel better - 600 grams/1.3 pounds a week over the past 24 weeks. For someone eating whatever they feel like, and however much they feel like, that’s pretty good lol.

I think feeling frustrated is more a feeling about how I’m spending my days atm and it’s just tagging onto the issue of weight loss. I am a terrible procrastinator/avoider and I have 2 quite stressful things I absolutely must do and can’t put off any longer. I’ll do one of them today for definite or my benefit will get cut off, and hoping I’ll do the 2nd as well. Both things involve leaving the house and talking to people. Life “have to’s” show me just how dysfunctional/low functioning I am.

Anyway, a bit blah here. But I know what I need to do to feel better and am having a good talk with myself about it.


#83

But why, you lose wonderfully… I lost 2 kg in the last 2 years, well I totally should eat less. If and when my body is on board with it, of course :wink: I can just choose my food items well, avoid eating when I don’t need it and hope for the best (but don’t get disappointed when it doesn’t happen) :wink:

I never was the classic dieter type though I had some determined times. That didn’t help much.

Yep, it’s a great pace of fat-loss! I was very, very happy when I had half of this but it didn’t last long enough (and I never expect to get back that again despite I weigh as much as I did in the middle of it and I am more active)… I ate as little as I comfortably could back then but it was enough, I was satiated all day, it was easy and no tracking! Oh golden times. But it’s good I stopped losing as I went even lower with my carbs and eventually I arrived where I am now…

I have read stories from people who has it WAY worse than me. I can satiate myself and don’t gain, merely don’t lose, it’s not so bad. All the struggles in vain are problematic but I have my fun too so okay.


(Judy Thompson) #84

@FrankoBear I looked up APOE4 as I wasn’t familiar. Google said this:
ApoE4 genotyping is not regularly used by most neurologists, Dr. Sabbagh says, and advisory groups recommend that people who do not have symptoms not get tested . But he does believe that the test can be used safely and without causing harm or distress in some people.Jul 10, 2019
My mom had pretty bad T3 diabetes. She was fine till my dad died in 2006 but then adopted a diet of mostly M&Ms and therein lay her downfall. Now my brother’s gf thinks he’s showing signs so she took him to get that test where they have you answer questions and draw a clock and he scored very well. I think her diagnostic tool is his mood. When he’s stubborn she assumes he has Alzheimers.


#85

Carb creep from a coffee addiction. I reckon the cream has created some carb creep as the doses were getting bigger. There are 4g of carbs in each 100mL of pouring cream. There’s also 38.6g of fat per 100mL. But 4g is not zero carb. “Double cream”, I think it is called “heavy cream”, a poor naming choice, in the US, has less than half the carbs, 2.6g, per 100ml. The fat and protein stay about the same. I can see why zero carbers may avoid fresh dairy foods in their eating, and favour fermented forms of cheese or yoghurt, in so letting the bacteria eat the carbs. There are also the almost zero carb (and zero protein) higher concentrated dairy fats in butter (80%) and ghee. Talking about cutting “dairy” from a way of eating, as we see in many post topics, starts with cutting low-fat milk. Then follows many paths from there. Some dairy products carry creepy carbs, and inflammatory reactive baggage.

Upon reflection I think single cream, or pouring cream, entered my coffee food cycle because of bought coffees.There is one cafe, a coffee truck, where the owner/barista has all types of nut juices and seed mash liquids, the current trend being oat milk, and some low fat milk, even ice cream, but no cream. Other coffee peddlers only have pouring cream, if I am lucky. Sometimes they have attempted putting ‘thickened’ cream in the coffee. Basically my plant-based chemical coffee addiction is the problem here. I should take the focus off the cream.

I wonder if the cream dollop in coffee would affect my blood glucose reading? It could be something to experiment with.

@Naghite Michael. What was the indicator that your carnivore diet had not enough fats? Is that suet granulated? I ate suet for a few weeks mixed into evening meals, and found it very hunger satiating. It has a high proportion of long chain saturated fatty acids, I think.

I am still interested in the adjustments made by @Azi Linda by doing some blood glucose tracking and finding a better path to follow. Now that I have replenished my blood glucose 🩸 monitoring sticks, I reckon I’ll explore that path again.

Last night’s dinner was about 400g of rare cooked thick cut Scotch fillet steak with a playing card sized slice of pan-fried sheep milk halloumi cheese. Yesterday’s breakfast was after a morning of yard work chores and was 4 large chicken eggs scrambled in butter and the left over fat from the steak the night before, 60g melted Jarlsberg cheese (I like that Norwegian cheese too much), and 120g of tinned mackerel mixed into the scramble. 2MAD, NoFUN, physical activity, outdoors…


Coffee fasted blood glucose before breakfast at 12:30pm = 5.8 mmol/l (104mg/dl). Blood ketones = 0.3 mmol/l. That’s heading in the right direction for this experiment.

Breakfast = 3 large size pasture fed chicken eggs scrambled in butter with 3 rashers of middle bacon, That is the streaky bacon still attached to the short-cut or eye bacon. Salty bone broth, 2 capsules of desiccated beef organs, 3 capsules of tallow.


#86

APOE4 is an interesting genetic test that can indicate a few things. I’m running my mouth off of memory here, so please check what I say. But intolerance to highly processed modern foods leading to Alzheimers dementia is one thing. I can imagine that neurologists and doctors without a low carb lifestyle treatment option in their doctor’s bag would counsel against it as a screening test. That’s because, if someone is a APOE4 carrier the “bad news” of future Alzheimer’s Disease would be seen as stressful and possibly leading to mental health problems. But if a person understands that it is not specifically the presence and expression of that gene that is causative for disease, then there is no need to stress. APOE4 and living a standard “western” lifestyle is the toxic mix. Following an ancestral eating way and lifestyle is the way to live with the knowledge of APOE4. The gene also has benefits like improved blood clotting after injury. That would have been handy for warriors and hunters.


(Judy Thompson) #87

That sounds right. Since we know it’s a combination of those 2 factors, there shouldn’t be any reason not to take that test if you want to. It’s just spit.


(Michael) #88

I track my food regularly, yesterday was 317 g protein to 232 g fat, or only 60% of my calories from fat, which I find to be low for energy, both as a percentage and in total calories (3440 cal while I usually eat over 3750 cal). I prefer more like todays, which was 334 g protein to 325 g of fat, which is a better ratio for me for energy at 67.3% energy from fat (and 4340 calories). The suet was granulated and frozen/cold. Tasted great with my high protein content in my breakfast.

P.S. Not bad for someone who weighs under 130 pounds eh? :slight_smile:


(Linda ) #89

If you can tolerate cream most ppl cut it cos it stalls or slows weight loss some ppl it doesn’t have that affect.

Yes the blood tests show me alot about me as soon as I eat too much protein it drops me out of ketosis and starts pushing blood glucose numbers up higher …I wish I had other ppls problems of carnivore making them drop all excess weight but nope that’s not the case for me…

But I’m not the only one so there is that…if you like dairy try goats milk, goat cheese, yogurt or sheep’s it’s higher in fat and better for keeping ketones lol… but it might be your halloumi cheese when I ate that it made me want more diary lol…


#90

Oh that’s easy, I never even touched that thing… Low-fat dairy, what a strange concept. And milk is low-fat anyway (okay, the term is for relative fat content, I just ignore it now), 5% fat at most? But I can’t buy such a thing easily, maybe if I buy raw milk…? I usually buy 2.8% (flavored water, still good) as it goes on sales while the 3.5-3.6% just rarely does and I don’t mind that much anyway. But I don’t go down to 1.5%. We barely have anything lower, 1.5 and 2.8 is the classic and Hungarians aren’t fatphobic, to put it lightly.

Apropos coffee… I am still drinking it. Very little and black. I should stop, it’s not good and I feel tempted to open another box of cream but I won’t.

My first week of November was relaxed. It wasn’t carnivore due to my tinned fish (emergency), my fav condiments with cheese… And yesterday was much worse, still not too bad but I wanted to train properly in November. But things piled up, some whim or circumstance can’t break my (somewhat tentative, I did it better before) determination but there were multiple things. I lacked the proper satiation and satisfaction and that is dangerous. To proper carnivore, I still eat good enough for me I am sure.
And now I don’t feel myself ready so I had coffee now… Ew. It’s only really good with cream.
And cream is actually fine, I couldn’t care less about the carbs in it as I am able to drink way too many coffees during the day using 10ml of it.
But coffee and cream is usually together in my life and it’s not healthy mentally to drink coffees instead of water half of the day, using it for procrastination and whatever I do with it. And IDK how long cream lasts (I mean, doesn’t spoil), 1 week? (I use UHT cream as I have zero other options, not even the milk truck has cream and it’s not easy to catch that. The bag one has little enough UHT flavor but the box one is lovely too. UHT milk is the foul thing we never would touch. It has a price cap so it must be cheap now compared to everything else but who cares? It’s like the cheap sugar and sunflower oil. We just can’t get poor and desperate enough to use such things. Fortunately the alternatives get more affordable as time passes and even Alvaro uses little of them anyway. My comsumption is negligible even when I eat off. I use lard and the thought of sweets rarely enters my mind.)
Where I was, oh yeah, let’s assume the cream doesn’t spoil in a week. It would meat 200ml cream every week, that’s just unacceptable even if Alvaro helps. It’s not really food to us, we only use it for coffee and desserts, it’s fatty and unsatiating… Merely lovely. I just don’t want to open a box every week, I had such times, littered with zillion coffees every day. Nope.

So they both must go, kind of. Maybe a long break would be nice so I wouldn’t jump right back into my “coffee all the time for a week” habit.

And I wonder why people call normal sized eggs “large”. Do too many tiny eggs come from very young hens…? A man with super young ones sold us “M” eggs, they were so, so small and he said he keeps the “S” ones…
But the egg lady always have mostly 63g (with shell, 52g without shell) eggs or a tad smaller or bigger. I almost always eat that sized eggs. Sometimes it’s 75g, sometimes 48g but that’s very rare. Smaller than normal eggs aren’t so rare but it’s still not M sized, far from it.
The same with the greengrocery eggs. They only have one kind of eggs and that’s the mentioned sized or a tad bigger.
The supermarkets have smaller ones too, probably never S ones and never really big ones. I don’t really watch, Alvaro has the habit of checking them out nowadays, their prices are ridiculous and they come from caged hens, not from probably a tad better places. But one never knows, I saw hens kept at a house closed into a smallish darkish place. The old hens were outside at least, still not in an ideal place. I have high standards as I have empathy and saw hens running around in a big green place, below trees (well, as green as it’s possible with many hens, they eat the greenery up in no time if the place isn’t really, really huge for them), getting lots of green food to eat.


#91

well count me a brit then :sunny: that was a good read, interesting about it all. I definitely parrot that one needs a very small event to make a huge celebration :wink:

-----------------so great posts on the board to read.

I am in busy mode again darn it. alot to do and zc food easily handled.
got a nice ribeye steak to start the day on first meal and might pair with shrimp depending on hunger level, and got me reg. ol’ burgers for second meal. Woke up wtih food not being any kind of draw or thought to me. I love my zc days for sure! So freeing to just steak and burger myself and call it a day!

off I go to get stuff done!! ugh :ghost::star_struck:


#92

I just wish we would outlaw the sale of fireworks for domestic use. I’m not a total grinch, and love a big organised display as much as the next person. But I hate that any old idiot can (and will) just buy a bunch of fireworks to dick around with. When there are people walking down the street firing off rockets like shotguns, it’s not exactly fun -_-

Feel for the poor animals this time of the year too. Ofc, I keep the cats in when it’s all majorly going off, but people will start setting them off well before and after the actual event and act like prats about it.


(Karen) #93

You’re absolutely right but hopefully it is just the minority who are irresponsible. Unfortunately there are more and more youths who don’t have good role models as they are 2nd and 3rd generations of prison ‘vistors’ … and I know that from first hand experience working as a prison officer. It has become normal behaviour because that’s what Mum Dad, Grandad Uncle Aunt did. Certainly Not saying they don’t know right from wrong though! They are every bit aware!


(Karen) #94

Had a longer sleep last night. My neck was hurting about 7ish this morning so I took a couple of pain killers I’m allowed to take lol, they don’t have any caffeine in them and so I went back into a fairly deep sleep for another hour or so. Unusual to get my deep sleep at that time in the morning. I actually got more deep sleep than awake !

Sat outside for brew n books time and the rain that was forecast held off till I went back in doors to get ready for the gym …timed it to perfection🙂

Did an upper body workout and bumped into a CrossFit friend which was nice. Did a bit of stretching then off to take Raymond out to Stapleford. Another local town. From my home its like a triangle of towns. We went into the Salvation Army charity shop as they have a cafe at the back and I had a lovely brunch of 2 easy over fried eggs and 2 portions of bacon and it was lovely, the eggs were so tasty and cheaper than our regular cafe😃 forgot to take photo which is a shame as it looked just as good as it tasted! This is the place that has the books in the back room where the cafe is and they have a specific shelf called ‘Faith’ which save me examining every single book to gi d what I want. I came away with 5 paperbacks, a couple of small ones and 3 regular sized ones, all faith oriented. I have so many now but I love them and that time I set aside in the morning sets me up for the rest of the day.

Had to stop off at Halford again on the way Home where a couple of Saturdays ago I got my brake lightbulb fitted because my neighbour had noticed I had no lights on the side that got the new one last week! Fortunately it was just the connection and I wasn’t charged. So I am safe on the roads again! HA!

I now have chicken wings in the oven. The packet of frozen wings instructs deep frying them but I don’t have a deep fryer so they’re in the oven and we will see how they turn out. I can smell that they are nearly ready. Got to go :wink:

The wings turned out okay and I ate all of them and probably could have eaten more as they were quite small. They were nice and crispy but also tender.


#95

I should learn that I MUST have enough ready to eat pork at hand ALL the time. I am way too optimistic :frowning:

I hopefully am done but if not, I have plenty of pork shoulder roast in the oven. But no, I don’t want to eat that, I should be fine now.

I started with my leftover broth with an egg yolk in it. Then I had a piece of turkey (maybe 270g meat+skin? I can’t possibly know, it’s always a mystery with bony meat) and some sponge cakes with cheese as I was still hungry, no wonder. And a sausage too. I was already over 120g protein but my fat was very low. No problem, there is dinner but I wasn’t satiated at all. I took a break and my focus went elsewhere but some time later I fried 100g pork shoulder (it looked ridiculous but I didn’t want to fry a proper portion and overdo my protein) with 30g bacon. Oh, it was a good idea, the bacon was still salty but nice with the unsalted (well, salted with bacon) meat. It was lovely, finally some substantial food! Even if little… I was so hungry so I ate up whatever I still had, even some mascarpone. IDK what to do with it but I bought it like 2 months ago and its expiration date is near. I tend to have desserts with it. And it’s a cream substitute but a poor one as it doesn’t mix with coffee so nicely and the taste isn’t the same either. But it’s still more cream than egg+butter in my coffee… I will look up some recipes or make my own. I think I mixed it with sour cream and it was very nostalgic, a childhood dessert was very similar to it even though that used quark… Odd but not as odd as egg and ground pork skin mixed and dry resulting in a very traditional pasta dish (that uses smoked pork fat tissue) flavor and feeling, even the texture has some similarity. I love that. If I had the original dish, I wouldn’t like that and it wouldn’t be anything like I remembered. Just like my old pancake experience happens only with my carni pancakes, the original became flour tasting.

So I am waiting for my perfect satiation I had in my fasting window but lost when I started to eat more than 4 hours ago.

The next days should be fine, I have 1800g pork shoulder, roasted (I put some of it away, poor freezer has nothing like that now and not even sausage). And 2 more turkey wing bases. The 3 biggest for me, the 2 smallest for Alvaro, I am very generous I think. He dislike very fatty pork so that’s all mine, probably. One can never know, the slabs have fattier and leaner parts and he can eat pork chuck, that is the top fattiest he can handle.

I hate being annoyingly hungry and it’s very, very tiring for hours on end. It was more like “not satiated” now, not hungry but it’s just as annoying. I don’t want to spend this much time on food (with a break but still).


(Judy Thompson) #96

A quick note/placeholder that I can come back to a few more times today - just finished reading, although I think I started way back there a couple times in the past few days and made one little comment somewhere in the middle. Lots of work once we got here, hit the ground running Wednesday night and crazy busy every day since. PLUS we have to talk to each other a LOT which eats up a ton of time.
This morning my sis in law called. She has anxiety and calls every morning hoping for an hour or more of my ear. In VA I used the time to walk with the puppy, here I don’t really walk but this morning used the time to make dog food and treats for the next couple weeks - chopping 3 lb chicken breast, cutting up the liver I dried over the weekend, and mixing the meats and bone meal and veggies I use for her meals, then wrapping and freezing them during the time my brother called later. Sheesh, they need so much of my time. But so does dog food so it balances out perfectly!
@MeganNZ I know, fruit and veg smell awful, not as bad as garlic but most people have to buy and cook all that anyway because their SO’s eat and so we have to buy and cook it all. I’m lucky in a way as hubby eats 1 kind of veggie, one kind of starch, a plain salad, and a prepackaged dessert EVERY day so that’s easy. He also doesn’t like garlic so I’m spared that sensory insult!

I’ll be back to comment and post more - I’m off now to set up my internet for a few violin lessons.


#97

@JJFiddle: I am even luckier as I just stopped handling vegs when I tried out carnivore and I won’t go back. If he wants vegs (apart from one legume - I actually don’t consider that vegetable just like I don’t consider a very starchy food vegetable. vegs are those low-carb, low-protein things to me - that requires like no effort and time to cook. a few mins at most counting everything and he has first side dish for 5 days. as he needs grains as his second side dish, crazy, normal people use the legume as a side dish but he disagrees), he can buy and cook them himself. AS LONG as they don’t took all the leftover space in the fridge when I need them for my meat soup and/or roast. Sometimes it’s tricky but I am amazing at putting everything inside, really, I am self-critical, it’s really so, Alvaro can’t do it when it’s serious but I am an expert and I can be creative when I want to make something happen.
The freezer is almost completely veg free all the time as well. I need the space for my meats.
Good thing we are only two persons and he isn’t super choosy…

Garlic is nice for us (I don’t understand why would be the smell bad when it’s fresh, it is not for us. sure, it is strong and special and not good when it lingers and Alvaro talks about the horribleness of the garlicy smell of coworkers) I just don’t like it in my meat dishes. Or any dish as they don’t need it. So I need some extremely off day to eat any garlic. Alvaro stopped eating it when I mostly cut out vegs and he somehow quit eating spinach… It’s odd as I always hate that stuff and never cooked it so it had nothing to do with me… Unless it’s the freezer space :smiley: But he still could cook it right after buying. Oh well I guess he liked his other vegs more so when he cooks, it’s just the favs.
So we buy garlic once in a few months and I have no idea what happens with it… Maybe he has some other dish for it…? But I think we can stop that and use the few tiny ones in the garden, they should be enough for… ever. They grow extremely slowly but we almost never use them so it’s fine.

But fruits smelling bad and vegs too… Most vegs smell like nothing. Fruits are lovely but the smell is often tiny too… But we are all different. I NEVER felt anything bad while cooking vegs (oh maybe it’s about that!) and some are famously smelly. My smell is a bit abnormal but in a good way.

Erm sorry it’s about vegs again but I like vegs, I just don’t eat them. Talking about them and remembering the lovely times with them (time consuming and hunger inducing but extremely delicious), that’s good. Why not to keep enjoying them even if I don’t like the consumption (and can do much better with my time, effort and money anyway).


I tracked. Vague guesstimation, protein is high but not extreme, fat is too high but that’s mascarpone and pork shoulder for you. And my nature.

But why I don’t get the usual carnivore (and even near carnivore!) satiation effect now I don’t know. Eventually I get satiated and it lasts for 10+several hours but it was unusually hard to reach it lately. Oh whatever, I do what I know the best, try to focus on meat with a few eggs and very little else!
Tomorrow is pork shoulder experiment, past experiences showed that it’s not a very satiating item for me (part of the fat acts like added fat, very small satiating effect) but I actually never had it almost exclusively… Or on OMAD…
I add some leaner meat to balance out the fattiness and keep my mascarpone eating to the minimum.
It would be so good if my fat/protein ratio needn’t to be in a small range for a proper food intake (my body is fine with a big one but it results in overeating fat or protein if it’s not right and I don’t want to waste money for that while simultaneously losing any chance at fat-loss, probably), it’s annoying and I can’t track anyway but hopefully my low accuracy will be enough.
OMAD would help so, so much. It should be very easy with pork shoulder as I easily can eat an OMAD sized meal using it. That’s a plan.

I really want to stop this struggle and focus on other things.


(Robin) #98

Thanks for checking in, busy lady!


#99

This morning I went swimming at the beach with Billie the Labrador. Mrs. Bear still has her cough and sore throat. But it’s on the improve. It’s a sunny late spring day with a cool land breeze. The ocean was cold. That’s part of the fun. Outdoors and physically active.

Pre- breakfast fasting blood glucose is 5.9mmol/l (106), and blood ketones are 0.2 mmol/l. Still some tweaks to make following @Azi Linda’s lead. 3 chicken eggs scrambled with 3 rashers of middle bacon, cooked in the tallow from last night’s lamb chops. Two coffees, three hours apart.


(Linda ) #100

To get into. Ketosis drop your protein but up your fat you can only process 30"to 50 grams of protein per meal according to the scientific experts…because your so active I’d start at 50 grams…at least double that in fat…see how fast you drop in to ketosis…then you can slowly increase it…or lower it as needed

You might want to break up your meals into 3 or 4 so it’s not necessarily low protein that would be up to 200grams if you ate 3 or 4…


#101

Did a little n=1, non-carnivore experiment over here: https://www.ketogenicforums.com/t/threw-myself-off-the-meat-wagon-on-purpose-a-blueberries-ice-cream-experiment/117011?u=frankobear
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