Mitigating elevation of LDL on a ketogenic diet


(Tim Sheehan) #1

Firstly I want to preface with the fact that I’m not arguing as to the effects of saturated fats on your body and the many potential misconceptions the health industry has about saturated fats, I’m simply attempting identify a method of reaching ketosis through diet that can be achieved by anyone, consistently, without raising LDL cholesterol levels regardless of fitness levels and activity. Many people are scared off the diet after receiving blood work because of increased LDL and the more blood tests like these are seen by medical professionals the more it proliferates the negative opinions of ketogenic diets amongst the medical community.

I made a post to the Facebook group today regarding the results of clinical studies vs individual reports of elevations in LDL cholesterol after following a ketogenic diet periods of up to 6-12 months. I’m creating this topic as a means for me to follow up on my blood panels over the coming weeks and to further break down my reasoning behind what I’m doing.

Objective: Identifying a method of reaching ketosis consistently (through diet only) without increasing LDL cholesterol levels regardless of activity level by adapting saturated vs unsaturated fat intake to individual variables.


Clinical studies have shown that ketogenic diets high in polyunsaturated fats result in increased ketone levels when compared to diets high in saturated fats. Additionally, the diets high in polyunsaturated fats resulted in no adverse effects on LDL cholesterol levels, while the diets higher in saturated fats resulted in significant increases.

Link to full article

There are many arguments about whether or not having higher levels of LDL cholesterol matters as much as the medical community at large says it does but the fact remains, most medical professionals consider high levels of LDL to be dangerous and will recommend people stop the ketogenic diet more often than not.

This causes two immediate problems:

  1. The individual panics and their first reaction is to stop the diet immediately, at the very least they’ll continue amidst healthy anxiety
  2. The results of the blood test proliferate the stigma amongst medical professionals that there is causation between ALL ketogenic diets and higher levels of LDL cholesterol regardless of what the diet constituted of

But some people have reductions in LDL cholesterol while on a high saturated fat versions of the keto diet, how can you explain that?

While definitely not the only factor, the most obvious factor could be the level of physical activity the individual is involved in and the TYPE of physical activity it is. Studies have shown that aerobic exercise prevents increases in cholesterol from diets high in saturated fat.


The ketogenic diet is gaining immense traction however it still suffers from one major setback, reports of increases in LDL cholesterol and the inevitable stigma that follows. To combat this stigma we now have research that shows our preconceptions of LDL may be unfounded to a certain degree, but like anything these arguments will take a long time to become mainstream.

While there are many people that have successfully transitioned to a ketogenic diet without taking saturated vs unsaturated fats into consideration (and that’s great for them) and have perfect blood work there are many that haven’t. Instead of treating ketogenic diets as a one-size-fits-all approach backed up with modern & fringe arguments about LDL levels I propose that more thought needs to be put into the induction process.

Before starting a ketogenic diet some questions need to be asked, these are just a few basic ideas that I’ve thrown around based on the studies I’ve read and sifting through causation and correlations.

What is your level of activity? If you are very active aerobically then increasing your intake of saturated fats won’t have the same impact on your LDL levels that someone with a sedentary lifestyle has (although the amount may differ for the individual). The goal, of course, is for everyone to be active but there are many heavy people on a ketogenic diet that are unable to exercise at their current weight. In these cases recommending at least a 20/80 ratio of saturated vs unsaturated fats may be a better approach until activity levels can be increased.

Will elevations in LDL put you off the diet? GP’s well versed in ketogenic diets are few and far between and you can’t throw a stone without hitting a story about someone’s GP recommending they stop their diet immediately 6 months into their diet. If this is something that will prevent you from continuing with your diet then reducing saturated fats may be a way of sticking to the diet long term while showing your GP that ketogenic diets can help lower LDL cholesterol at the same time leading them to become more interested in the topic and not writing it off. On the other hand if you are confident in studies regarding LDL not being as bad as previously thought then this won’t be as much of an issue for you.


There are still some unanswered questions that I hope to find the answers to, for instance how do the effects of cholesterol mobilising due to weight loss combat the effects of reducing saturated fat intake? Will one outweigh the other and if so which?

I’ll follow up with my own blood work and other results over the next several weeks.


#2

Great thread, I’ll be watching since my LDL is sky-high and although it is Pattern A and currently considered to be unlikely to contribute to atherogenicity, the science is always evolving and that might change.

I want to point out that in the following YouTube video Dr. Cate Shanahan points out the mechanism by which polyunsaturated fats work to lower LDL, which is why they’re recommended by mainstream medical dogma, is to cause the LDL to actually stick to the vascular linings which induces atherogenic plaque, so it’s usually a choice between saturated and monounsaturated fat while polyunsaturated fats should be incidental to the other fats consumed and not the determining factor.

YouTube: Dr. Cate Shanahan - 'Practical Lipid Management for LCHF Patients’

Dr. Cate Shanahan - ‘Practical Lipid Management for LCHF Patients’

(The YouTube link in the editor appears fine, but when saved, it doesn’t display correctly, so I’ll monitor this and update it as necessary.)


(Larry Lustig) #3

I’m bookmarking this fascinating and important thread.


#4

Peter Attia and some others have suggested that if you have high LDLp and it’s the small types, that reducing saturated fats and increasing monounsaturated fats will improve the profile.

I’ll have to go dig up some links…

@DaveKeto has a link to some interesting information about LDL on keto, in addition to his own research.

http://bjjcaveman.com/2014/11/17/ketosis-and-high-cholesterol-according-dr-thomas-dayspring/

From Peter Attia’s blog:

"So, on balance, he consumed about the same number of calories and even total quantity of fat, but his distribution of fat intake changed and he heavily swapped out SFA for MUFA.

The result?

His LDL-P fell from >3,500 nmol/L to about 1,300 nmol/L (about 55th percentile), and his CRP fell from 2.9 mg/L to <0.3 mg/L (and for the lipoprotein cognoscenti, both desmosterol and cholanstanol fell)." http://eatingacademy.com/cholesterol-2/random-finding-plus-pi


(Richard Morris) #5

There is an advantage in Australia to having Total Cholesterol over 6.0 … the government will subsidize a lipid subfraction analysis for you on Medicare.


(Maia Doherty) #6

Thank you for this post. I’m one of those people on a ketogenic diet where my cholesterol went right up. I had my blood work done 8 months in to keto and received my results a couple of days ago (so I am now 9 months in). I had assumed that any rise in cholesterol would have dropped by now but nope.Everything in my blood work is excellent except for my LDL-C. My doctor said that it was “crazy” and wanted to put me on meds. She asked me if I was aware of the risk of heart attack. I told her that I was and that I will change some things in my diet and have blood work done again in 3 months. Total cholesterol (mmol/L) was at 8.3. Triglycerides’s at 0.94. HDL at 1.66. LDL (Calculated) at 6.21. Non-HDL at 6.64.

I understand from my Trig to HDL ratio that my LDL particle size is likely quite big and I have no need to worry, but I can’t help but worry slightly. I realize that I have been getting the majority of my fats from saturated fats (2, sometimes 3 BPC’s a day with coconut oil and butter), among other things. My plan is to cut down the saturated fats and increase the monounsaturated, start taking Omega 3’s which I have not, and if I can get my butt in gear to start exercising. We shall see how things go! I too am curious as to if my LDL would have ever increased in that manner if I wouldn’t have eaten so many saturated fats.


(Keto in Katy) #7

That is my understanding as well. I don’t remember what my LDL number was but a couple years ago I had the VAP (Vertical Auto Profile) blood test done and it showed that my LDL particles were mostly Pattern A, the large fluffy type, and so the conclusion was that this was generally seen as protective and not a concern.


(Charlie Herbert) #8

I’m in the same boat. After 7 mos, TG down, HDL up, total C and LDL-C UP. I’m cutting back on BPC, no more added fats to coffee. But not changing exercise routine – 3-5x/wk strength trng. Looking to get tested again soon (it’s been about 2 mos since last test).

Note there’s another calculation for LDL-C that might tamp down the heebiejeebies. Re: Iranian forumla. See Did your LDL-Cholesterol go up on Keto? Interesting article


(Dennis Herrera) #9

Great thread. Im gearing up for my doctors visit to get blood work done and wanted to look in the forum and see what tests i should request so what that high cholesterol is found there is some science and understanding. Im 7 months into my Keto and my keto is strong, the fat is melting away and i feel great most of the time. On a daily basis i will typically eat one solid meal a day, usually some meat with greens on the side and for most days thats the only food i typically eat. However…I do drink 3 BPC’s in the morning with 1 tbs KG butter, 1 tbs Heavy cream and 1 tsb coconut oil so thats a pretty fatty breakfast. After reading this thread im a bit nervous on my results regardless of what tests i ask for. Maybe i need to back the BPC’s down. Thank you for the insight.


#10

Today I have received the results of my first ever blood test and they appear to be pretty bad, so I’m worried and a bit confused right now. My doctor is downright discouraging of my continuing with the ketogenic diet.

I have been following keto for nearly 9 months and love it. I came to this through my training at the gym. I’m very active, training up to 6 times per week and plan to compete in my first bodybuilding comp this year.

My results are:
TG: 1.6
HDL: 3.24
LDL: 7.9
Total: 11.9

I have no starting point to compare these to. I am in my early 40’s, 5’2", and weigh around 49KG. I’ve never felt so good as I do now on keto, so would appreciate any further advice from others. From what I’ve researched, the particle testing for LDL is not available in NZ, or certainly not common, which is where I live.


(Jacquie) #11

@Bloss I’m the same height and weight as you. :slight_smile: My last lipid panel in 2015 was - Cholesterol 9.17 mmol/L, HDL 3.49 mmol/L, LDL 5.22 mmol/L, Trigs 1.02mmol/L. I’m not worried at all. My trig/HDL ratio is good and your might be a bit high. We both have high HDL, a good thing. I can’t get particle testing either in NS (Canada). I’ve been keto over 2.5 years and plan to do so for life. :slight_smile:

@DaveKeto may have some further input for you.


(Roberto) #12

@bloss so your ratio of total cholesterol divided by HDL is 3.67 which seems pretty good-- have you read Jimmy Moores book “cholesterol clarity” ?


(Roberto) #13

If you are in the USA you can request this test by quest labs: Cardio IQ® Lipoprotein Fractionation, Ion Mobility and if you have any heart disease in the family (or if not) also read about getting homocysteine & crp (or HS CRP) as a measure of inflammation-- i always get these plus a carotid ultrasound from my cardiologist as well- my blockages in my carotids have come down from 40 percent to 30 percent over 2 years (YAY!!!)


(Roberto) #14

ps my bad cholesterol was high last test but my cardiologist (being low carb) is thrilled with the carotids clearing up AND my weight loss and lowered blood glucose…she’s just not concerned with it…


#15

Thanks for that :slight_smile: The last thing I want to do is go off keto! Hoping to make some small changes and perhaps see some improvement. I found these articles which seems to suggest a few of us can be susceptible to raised levels of cholesterol on low-carb diet, but to try switching out some saturated fats for more monounsaturated. Looks like no more BPC for me prior to training :pensive:


#16

Hi there, no I haven’t, but would love to. I think I better make that a priority… and maybe lend it to my doctor!


(Jacquie) #17

@Bloss I wouldn’t jump to that conclusion just yet. Check out @DaveKeto’s website first. You and I are probably hyper-responders, like Dave. :slight_smile:


#18

Thanks Jacquie, I’ll definitely look that up :blush:


(Michael Wallace Ellwood) #19

One inexpensive experiment people might try, in order to try to reduce LDL, is to take at least 6g (6,000 mg) of l-ascorbic acid (i.e. vitamin C) per day, in divided doses over the course of the day, ideally with about the same amount of l-lysine (an essential amino acid).

Note that the powdered form (dissolved in water) is better than tablets, with all the fillings and binders, etc.

If desired, one can mix it with about half as much sodium bicarbonate (baking soda), to make a fairly refreshing fizzy drink. You are then drinking sodium ascorbate, which is as effective as ascorbic acid (which can also be called hydrogen ascorbate), since it is the ascorbate ion which is the effective part.

For more information see:

“Practicing Medicine Without A License?”
by Owen Fonorow (2008).


(Maia Doherty) #20

You have a terrific triglyceride to HDL ratio (suggesting that your LDL is large, fluffy and not harmful). This article states that a ratio below 0.89 is optimal. Yours is 0.49! Looks like you are doing very well!

http://www.docsopinion.com/2014/07/17/triglyceride-hdl-ratio/