Mitigating elevation of LDL on a ketogenic diet


(Stephen Price (Lythix)) #21

It appears I’m a hyper-responder as well. Cholesterol went up (HDL was 1.4, LDL 7.3 which was up from 5.2 taken late last year. 9.6 Cholesterol total).My doctor freaked out and wanted to put me on statins and I was like hell no. Changed doctors to one who supports LCHF.
I did have a Heart CT scan though and just found out all is normal, calcium score of zero.
So as @daveketo mentioned just because there is cholesterol in your blood doesn’t mean it’s actually being used.

I have this analogy I use. If a house is on first (the inflammation) then the firemen are the Cholesterol. You wouldn’t shoot the firemen that turn up, you would let them deal with the fire. (Statins wipe out the firemen). If the heaps of firemen show up but the house is not even on fire then they eventually leave and go look for the next fire. The blood test shows how much cholesterol there is (how many firemen) not how many are fighting fires. There might be no fires at all (no inflammation). The heart CT test shows how much damage from fires there are.
It was pretty expensive ($560Aus) but I feel better knowing. Medicare doesn’t cover any of it so goes to show how much the Government doesn’t care about reducing heart disease.

btw, my second opinion doctor said my blood works looked fine except for the cholesterol and even then the jury is out if that actually means anything relating to heart disease. There are two sides disagreeing what it means. In my book that means they have no idea, really.


(Richard Morris) #22

Congrats on the 0 CAC. That test sees the disease rather than looking for markers that are more likely to be seen in people with the disease.

But speaking of proxy markers of disease. Your circulating triglycerides number is a good indicator for whether your LDL is dangerous. Above 1 mmol/l and there is a better chance that it is small dense atherogenic. Below and you have mostly pattern A LDL.


Vldl vs Pattern B
(Bella Tricks) #23

Hey Richard. I’m in Aus (yay) and after 7 months keto, have total Chole of 6.3.
What’s a lipid whatsy test?
Btw, do these look ok?
Trig: 0.6
HDL 2.3
LDL 3.7
Non HDL 4.0
Chol/HDL ratio: 2.7
.???
I know yer not a doc but I m trying to understand these (and why after 7 months I’ve still not lost weight) , and hoping I’m cool to press on with keto.
:slight_smile:
Bel


(Richard Morris) #24

I get a lipid subfraction analysis - it’s run by Sydney Adventist Hospital and the lab you get your blood tested at just sends it away. My Doc just adds “Lipid subfraction” to the list of tests she requests for me.

I can predict with Trigs <1.0 that your subfraction will probably say that you are pattern A so your LDL is non-atherogenic. That’s great. Also your trigs/HDL number is awesome, indicating that you are not very insulin resistant. The rest of the numbers don’t mean much :slight_smile:


(Bella Tricks) #25

Thank you so much for the response. :relaxed:


(Linda Ann Mc Donald Cash) #26

After reading your post and the linked to medical testing from the Endocrine Society, one thing that I have noticed, and is of particular interest to me, is that we’re not differentiating TYPES of LDL cholesterol here. I just found out via lab testing that my LDL has skyrocketed to 249! However even though the doctor didnt bother ordering a LDL-P test, we did get the VLDL, which as you know, is the worst LDL, the VERY LOW (small particular sized) Density Lipoprotein, and mine is only 11, which leads me to believe that the balance of my LDL, 249-11 = 238 must be the larger size LDL which is NOT harmful. Also my triglyderides are only 54. I am 5.6", 120 pounds (lost eight pounds in the past two months on keto, hopefully FAT!) I exercise with weights twice a week, and fast walk two miles another twice a week. What do you think? My doctor is freaking out frankly! :exploding_head:


(Linda Ann Mc Donald Cash) #27

How can you have a TOTAL cholesterol of only 6.3???! Mine is 365! “Normal” is around 150-200.


(Carol O'Carroll) #28

This is probably an Australian measurement. Are you in the US? All the blood sugars, etc are in mmol/L, while American measurements are in mg/dl
Here’s a quick reference
http://www.joslin.org/info/conversion_table_for_blood_glucose_monitoring.html


(Bella Tricks) #29

Lol. Yep it’s a conversion thing.
So I’m about 240 mg/dl
And you’re about 8.9 mmol


(jburtonpdx) #30

wondering about my numbers now…
on 4/27/17 - Total 345, HDL 36, LDL 282, tryg 136
on 10/24/17 - Total 284, HDL 37, LDL 223, tryg 123

prior to the 4/27 test, I just ate my normal LCHF diet
3 days prior to the 10/24 test I went higher fat up from about 150 grams a day to 400 grams per day.
Since the test I’ve resumed normal diet except for one thing - I’ve stopped drinking coffee from a french press. Now drinking coffee from a normal drip coffee maker using a paper filter.

I’ve read a couple articles and a couple studies showing the impact of cafestol on LDL. I guess the paper filter catches the stuff where things like a french press or the mesh metal filters don’t. Here’s one of the articles - https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/06/070614162223.htm

I’m going to get another test done on Monday the 30th along with a couple other things that the doc won’t order for me.

Not sure if a week is long enough to impact or not but I want the test I’ve ordered to get a real LDL number as opposed to the ‘calculated’ number in the other tests…


(Linda Ann Mc Donald Cash) #31

Ahhh, yes, I am in California actually. Thanks for that info!


(Linda Ann Mc Donald Cash) #32

Does coffee have any effect on cholesterol? Never heard that one. Also, even though your LDL numbers are high, mine are too, but remember, you have small VLDL particles and then you have the Large buoyant good LDL particles. You should try to find out what the numbers are on those individually. I would be more concerned about the trygliceride level myself, yours is high, should be lower and your HDL is quite low, should be higher by now. Might ask for an LDL-P test, and if your doctor doesnt get it, educate him or her! Good luck.


(jburtonpdx) #33

Hi Linda
I suggest you read the linked article regarding the impact of cafestol on LDL numbers. Coffee that is not filtered through paper does impact.

Yes, I am getting a particle size density test done along with other tests that my doc won’t order as said in the post.

Doc’s not interested in being educated by those of us without the blessed MD someplace in our title. I’ve stopped using her.

Considering the ratio of Trig to HDL I can likely predict the particle size density and it’s not good.

As far as raising my HDL, a very recently published study says that might not be desirable either… Here’s another article to read: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/08/170823094124.htm

I propose that we don’t know as much about lipids as we think and a lot more study is required.

I like the idea of a CAC scan but can’t get that without a Dr’s order so I need to find an agreeable doc to get that done. Will also have to be within my insurance plan…


(VLC.MD) #34

Raising HDL is still a good idea.
What that shows is that the people with the highest HDL (i.e. One person in 1000) has a higher risk of heart disease, not lower.
You can’t pin it down to HDL even.
If it is the HDL, then it reminds us of one thing … there is an ideal range FOR EVERYthing.
Which shouldn’t really be news :slight_smile:


(jeff) #35

Ketoer for 10 months.

I got a real shock too when I saw my very high LDL levels a few weeks back. Luckily, I stumbled on the work Dave has performed over the last 2 years:

which has also received praises from the low carb scientific community. Seems like a high LDL in keto may not be an issue after all. I assume it will take a year or 2 for the researchers to catch up with his work.
Oh, and eating more fat would decrease the LDL, not the opposite :wink:

Jeff


#36

@JamieHayes shared this on the cholesterol forum, I thought it was pretty good. I even sent it to my brother who’s not into keto.

My LDL was already “high” before I went low carb/keto and I haven’t gotten it checked yet. My, probably soon to be former GP, doesn’t seem to be open to anything that doesn’t involve medicating everyone for everything.


(KCKO, KCFO) #37

A couple of hospitals in Colorado had these for $100, just calland schedule them. Even if insurance doesn’t cover them it is well worth really knowing the condition of your heart. My husband is at the same high levels he was 10 yrs. ago. He was in a major car wreck in his younger years and the calcium in his arteries are all that is holding them together basically, so he has to know insurance or not. It isn’t that expensive as far as ct scan go. Worth every penny.

Forgot to add he has family with high chol. and he can’t take statins due to muscle pain. I am slowly converting his diet to keto, so far it is only low carb health fats as in mono/sat. fats.


(Alex K Chen) #38

HCA2 activation inhibits lipolytic and atherogenic activity (i.e., it inhibits the breakdown of fats and the development of atherosclerosis), induces vasodilation (i.e., the dilation of blood vessels), and is responsible for mediating niacin-induced flushing.[12]

^maybe THIS is how some people on ketosis with ultra-high cholesterol from excess fat consumption avoid developing cholesterol deposits


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #39

Except that experiments have shown that the lipid profiles of people on a low-carb, high-fat diet are usually improved after time on the diet. Triglyerides drop, HDL increases, and LDL normalises.

There is a population of what Dave Feldman calls lean-mass hyper-responders, whose LDL tends to rise on a ketogenic diet, even though their triglycerides and HDL are excellent. There is a fair amount of research to show that it’s the ratio of triglycerides to HDL that indicates cardiovascular risk, not the LDL level.

Also, over 50% of people with familial hypercholesterolaemia (a genetic mutation that causes very high LDL) never develop cardiovascular disease, live normal lives, and die of unrelated causes. In fact, many of them are actually healthier later in life than people their age with lower cholesterol levels. As for the people with FH who do develop cardiovascular disease, they all have genetic variants of fibrinogen and clotting factor VIII that make their blood much likelier to clot. So high LDL is clearly not the problem we’ve been led to believe it is.