Mike's Excellent DOM and Ocean Minerals Adventure


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #1

In this topic I introduced my discovery of Deep Ocean Mineral Water (DOM) in the form of carbonated YHB Ocean Bomb:


I liked it! So I started drinking a couple cans of this daily. Unfortunately, I quickly bought out the complete inventory at Osaka (TnT) Market at Park Royal and was told by an employee that they don’t intend to restock. There are a few more TnT Supermarkets here in Vancouver so I intend to visit and buy out their stocks as well. I also began searching for alternatives and turned up two: Aussie Trace Minerals (ATM) and Whole Earth and Sea DOM (WES). Both are concentrated liquids intended to be added to either still or carbonated water.

ATM is not DOM. It’s extracted from surface water near the southern end of the Great Barrier Reef off southeast Australia. WES, on the other hand is DOM from the same source in Taiwan as Ocean Bomb, at a depth of 660 meters.

Why? My initial motivation for this experiment is night leg cramps. In my research for available sources of DOM I read that DOM (or just ocean minerals) might be effective treating/preventing cramps. I’ve participated in several discussions on these forums related to dealing with cramps. The general consensus seems to be that electrolyte imbalance is at least part of the problem and possibly the major part of it. Thus, for the past couple of year I’ve been trying various combos of sodium, potassium and magnesium salts trying to adjust my macro electrolytes.

I’ve had some success. I no longer get cramps nightly or every morning, only occasionally. The cramps I get usually aren’t as severe or long lasting as in prior years and I am able to stretch my leg(s) to stop nearly all as soon as they start. Only once or twice in a couple of months do I get a cramp that is bad enough to get me out of bed to ‘walk it off’. And only very rarely do these even severe cramps last longer than 10-15 minutes. For comparison, before keto I got severe cramps several times per week. Many were so bad that I had pain in the affected muscle(s) for days afterwards.

So, I’ve made a lot of progress and I’m quite happy about it, thank you! But I still suffer cramps and still suffer the occasional cramp severe enough to send me limping around the apartment. Interestingly, the cramps have moved from my feet, ankles and calves up to the inner and backsides of my thighs. When I get a cramp in my thighs it seems to be much deeper and more painful. So I don’t want to get them - at all! Period. Even though I can still stop 99% of them by stretching my legs as soon as I feel the first pang of tightening, I’d much rather not wake up every morning wondering if today is going to be a big one.

I think I’ve probably gone about as far as I’m going to get by adjusting electrolyte macro minerals. Originally, I worked with Redmond’s Real Salt for sodium, French’s NoSalt for potassium, and epsom salt for magnesium. Unfortunately, for some reason French’s NOSalt has been unavailable in local groceries for a year. Although it’s available online, the cost is 5-6 times what it was in the grocery. So I haven’t bought or used any for about a year now. I also stopped adding epsom salt. It’s not particularly bioavailable so I wondered if dropping it would make a difference. It did, but not much. I substituted a magnesium supplement which seems to have helped a bit. But again not very much. I switched to Himalayan pink salt because I can buy it at Walmart for less than half the price of Redmond’s Real Salt. They both contain a host of trace minerals. For about 7-8 months I’ve consumed only Himalayan pink salt for electrolyte supplementation. No potassium and only a small amount of magnesium (couple hundred milligrams). My cramps got no worse for it.

So on to … Trace minerals. After reading that trace mineral balance might be involved in muscle cramps I decided to test whether they be helpful to reducing my cramps even more or even to eliminating them. Trace minerals in ocean water approximate the natural/healthful mineral balance of blood, hence the claim that ocean minerals (both DOM and otherwise) help a lot of issues related to electrolytes and mineral proportions.


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #2

Thu, May 6, 2021

This is not the beginning. I started drinking YHB Ocean Bomb a month ago. I started supplementing Aussie Trace Minerals a week ago. My magnesium bisglycinate ran out a week ago as well. So I’ve now been one full week without magnesium supplementation - other than whatever is in Ocean Bomb and ATM. And Himalaya pink salt.

On the assumption that my trace minerals were likely not in healthy balance and probably have not been for years or decades, I decided to overdose ATM for a week or two. I’m hoping this will get my trace minerals into balance. The recommended daily dose of ATM is 5-20 drops once or twice a day. That’s quite a range! I’m taking 2 grams (about 25 drops) 3 times per day and on a couple of days I took a 4th dose. This is in addition to a 330ml can of Ocean Bomb on every work day. I’m generally working 5 days per week now, although I’ve had the previous 2 days off, I’m working today and the next 5 consecutive days (6 total)!

In the 7 days since the magnesium bisglycinate ran out, I’ve had zero cramps. One morning I had a very slight hint of an oncoming but it went away as soon as I stretched my leg.

I take about 10-12 grams of Himalayan pink salt dissolved in water every work day. I’ve started to do this on my off days as well. This because until last week, if I did not get my salt water for a day, my greatest risk for a cramp was the following morning.

I did an experiment the past two days, which were off days. I did not drink any salt water. I had 2.5 grams of Himalayan salt in my morning coffee and another 2 grams with my Angus beef patty at Tuesday supper. I had only the 2.5 grams in my coffee yesterday morning.

No cramp or even incipient threat either yesterday morning or this morning. For me that’s excellent!


Non-cramp related observation. More later. Maybe this is just my imagination, but I'm going to record it anyway, since it might be something. A lot of folks report that soon after they started keto they experienced 'increased mental clarity' and/or 'disappearance of brain fog'. Some report that they had trouble sleeping due to being wide awake instead of sleepy. In the 4 1/2 years I've been eating keto, I did not experience any of that.

This morning, after about 5 hours of pretty sound sleep, I awoke fully awake. Because I’m working today and need the physical rest, I stayed in bed and was able to drift off a couple of time for maybe half an hour each time. Although physically completely relaxed I was otherwise fully awake and mentally ready to go. My mind felt very clear and alert. Normally, I’m pretty groggy for a while after waking up in the morning. Not today.


(Bob M) #3

Interesting. I’ll have to look to see whether I can get anything like that near me.

You know what I use that helps, too, is magnesium oil. I put it on my legs at night and in the morning. It does get absorbed through the skin (some studies show this), though it’s futile to attempt to calculate how much. And I put it on my legs only because they’re easy to reach.

I usually use the magnesium oil and not pills. But that might be because I’ve built up a supply of Mg and don’t eat many anti-nutrients (ie, plants).

I can still get a cramp if I fast 24+ hours overnight and don’t take in salt (and now, I’m using potassium via No Salt). Ive also used various “fasting drops”, but these are a bit expensive.

Other than fasting, I don’t get cramps very often, maybe 1 or 2 times per month, if that. But I’d like to cut down on those.


(Edith) #4

Electrolytes have been a real struggle for me pretty much the entire four years I have eaten LCHF. I think I am going to give them a try and see if they help.


(Hyperbole- best thing in the universe!) #5

Interesting. I’ll have to keep my eyes open and give it a try if I find it.


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #6

Fri, May 7, 2021

05:45 I had a twinge of a cramp starting in my inner right thigh as I sat over the edge of the bed lifting my right leg to remove my pajamas. I immediately stood up and it dissipated. No pain.


#7

So, we eat food and have no cramps, then we stop eating lots of different foods because we believe we don’t need them. Then we think we do need something and this something needs to be some difficult to find drink that is made of something claimed to be coming from somewhere around the world, and deep ocean, no less?

Isn’t it easier to eat a bit of spinach, some green beans and brocolli and be done with it?

I’ve had severe cramps when I started keto. I’ve written about my problem here. It disappeared almost completely when I upped my greens. Now that I’m carnivore, the cramps are back with a vengeance. This evening I had a terrible one… on my neck, the front of it! I had never had cramps on my neck before.

So: very low carbs, but with greens = no cramps.
No carbs = cramps.

The solution… deep ocean minerals!

Or, the local farmers.

I’m thinking of the carbon footprint of this deep sea thing, assuming it’s really from deep ocean. An perhaps silt being lifted that may disturb life that isn’t used to it, down in the deep ocean.

In general, eating/drinking local is better. You can even plant your own greens, if your local farmer is that untrustworthy.

Now, do you really trust you aren’t just buying a placebo with a fancy name, that’s perhaps some deep sea mineral diluted in lots of tap water?

You guys have such a love for supplements!


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #8

I had cramps for many years prior to keto. In fact eating keto has reduced both severity and frequency. I’m now trying to eliminate them completely and I think electrolytes and other trace minerals might be effective. I ate lots of spinach and other leafy greens and veggies for decades to no avail. I await with baited breath your report.


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #9

Sat, May 8, 2021

04:00 First full cramp in more than 2-3 weeks. Top of my right foot. Moderately painful and would not respond to attempts to stretch it out. Lasted about 1 1/2 hours!

05:45 Foot cramp finally gone. I was still in bed and lifted each leg in turn to remove my socks and got a twinge of cramp starting in both inner thighs. I was able to dissipate both by stretching. Got up with no further problems.

Note: I drank some alcohol the evening before after getting home from work, maybe around 75 ml total. Further note, I’ve done the same several times during the past couple weeks without triggering any cramps other than the ‘twinges’ I reported yesterday. I’ll continue to note this to see if any pattern emerges.


(Hyperbole- best thing in the universe!) #10

image

I found these, but sadly they are almost as high in sugar as Classic Coke. But I’ll keep my eyes open for other ones and see.


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #11

Yes, all the flavoured versions have loads of added sugar. This is the one that has no carbs:

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(Hyperbole- best thing in the universe!) #12

Thanks! Low or no sugar things aren’t super popular here, but getting more so. So maybe I can find it. It’s probably more popular in Taiwan than here on the mainland.


(Bob M) #13

My perspective is eating those actually reduces the amount of minerals you’re getting, or at least you’re not getting anywhere near the amount printed on the package. Too many anti-nutrients.

Now, say you got some minerals, more than the anti-nutrients could “disable”. Could that help with cramps? Maybe.

But the you’d have to know what you’re actually getting and how that helped.

And unless you ate exactly the same meat (and everything else) when keto, then just dropped the spinach, green beans, and broccoli, you’re likely changing things too much to really know what’s happening.

And while I don’t eat these a lot, I do eat them, as my wife makes them. Is there a benefit to eating them? I still get cramps at times. But I’ve never performed any type of scientific testing.


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #14

Today’s (Monday, May 10, 13:45 - 14:45)) meal at work. Roast beef slices and President spreadable brie cheese. Ocean Bomb carbonated deep ocean mineral water.

  • 49.3 grams fat
  • 24.7 grams protein
  • 6.2 grams carbs (from the cheese)
  • total calories: 614.6.

Macros:

  • fat gr::protein gr = 1.48
  • fat cal::protein cal = 3.33
  • carb gr::total gr = 0.07 (6.75%)
  • carb cal::total cal = 0.04 (3.98%)


(A fool and his bacon are soon parted) #15

I’m not even going to ask what they put in the Brie to make it “spreadable.” In my experience, taking a piece of Brie out of the fridge and putting it in my lunch bag is all I need to do to get it spreadable by lunchtime.

Unless this is President’s version of the Folger’s slogan, “It’s mountain-grown,” lol! (Hint: all coffee is mountain-grown.)


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #16

Take your pick. My guess would be the gums and propylene glycol (aka antifreeze) alginate:

Ingredients:

brie cheese (pasteurixed milk, pasteurixed cream, salt, calcium chloride, mircobiral ezyme, bacterial culture, penicillum candidum), milk ingredients, water, salt, xanthan gum, carob bean gum, propylene glycol alginate, carrageenan, guar gum, bacterial culture, artifical colour


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #17

Tue, May 11, 2021

05:00 Back of right thigh, just behind the knee. Moderately painful and would not respond to attempts to stretch it out. Had to get up to walk it out. Lasted about 10-15 minutes.

Note: I drank some alcohol the evening before after getting home from work, maybe around 75 ml total. Further note, I only drank a little less than half my liter of salt water at work yesterday. Although I also had a 330ml can of Ocean Bomb (as I reported just above) and a couple of 2 gram doses of ATM at home later. And, of course, I had my regular 2 grams of ATM in my morning keto coffee.


#18

You can breathe again.

It works for me. Not necessarily spinach and broccoli, but just eating a little more carbs is enough to help. And if I’m eating a little more carbs, I’d rather go for veggies than to heavier in carbs alternatives. I pick the veggies with the least carbs that come from closer, as opposed to eating some other veggie that needs to travel here all the way from China, or Kiribati.

Now that I’m carnivore, the cramps are back with a vengeance. But I’ll put an end to the carnivore experiment soon, as it doesn’t work for me.

Prior to going keto, I had no cramps. At least, not more than a few times a year and never a severe one that would make me literally fall. So, in my case it is linked to lack of carbs, or something that comes in a carb package.


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #19

Mon, May 17, 2021

03:40 Inside right ankle Not very painful but would not go away, even trying to walk it out. Lasted 20 plus minutes.

05:45 Both left and right inside thighs. This was a ‘biggie’. Pain was very severe. Forced me out of bed. Lasted 20-25 minutes.

Note: Yesterday was a short shift at work, so I only drank about 1/2 a liter of my salt water. Although, I did get a couple of doses of ocean minerals. Also, wife and I went for a couple hours walk and I suspect that may have stressed leg muscles.

Note 2: I’ve discovered that Absorbine Jr. helps to relax the affected muscles. I’ve been swabbing on both thighs for a couple of weeks, though not every night. Last night I neglected to apply. I used it this morning to help relieve the cramps after they started. As of today, I will apply liberally every night when I retire without fail!


Night Cramps - Compression, Another Approach
(Bob M) #20

You could test this. Try pure sugar. If you still get cramps, then it’s something you’re missing in vegetables, whatever those are.

Then consider why you can’t get the same things from animals.

It’s an interesting thought experiment.

Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it), I don’t get cramps enough to test this. And mine seem to be related to salt/potassium/magnesium intake, though I could be wrong.