March 2023 IF/EF Chat Thread (All Welcome)

(KM) #58

Have you ever tried a dry fast (no water)? I am not sure of the science behind it (or if there really is any), but supposedly it is the most efficient process for autophagy. I think the idea is that the body will break down cells to create the “metabolic water” needed for its various processes. I’ve tried it twice. I don’t know if it was any better (I told myself it was, because it make me miserable), but it sure was harder, especially since I didn’t wean off caffeine ahead of time.

(Doug) #59

Jane, coming from a ketogenic diet, I think there’s a good argument for autophagy increasing after 24 hours. We don’t store much protein (the most potent inhibitor of autophagy) in our bloodstream at all, and glycogen levels should be somewhat lower than on a carb-heavy diet. After a day of fasting, the ‘pipeline’ is empty and glycogen depleting should be ongoing. Before that’s over, autophagy should be ramping up.

I’d gladly volunteer to have tissue sample taken while fasting - you’re right that most measurements are indirect. But, a tissue sample can show autophagosomes, and under a microscope they can be counted, so it’s not impossible.

(Doug) #60

It’s like the “one day of dry fasting equals three days of water fasting.” Somebody just made it up, and it sounds good.

I usually hear it as the body 'breaks down fat cells" or "when we break down stored fat… water is created. But the truth is exactly the opposite - water is consumed when we break down fat. Water is created when we store fat.

#61

I am so glad I keep a liter of water next to me now (in the water bottle holder of our stationary bike… it’s needed). Nothing changed: I just READ “dry fast” and I am immediately parched and must drink a lot…

Even if it was a life or death situation, give me death if I can’t get water.
I would rather have breakfast. Or go vegan. Water is life and I am especially sensitive to the lack of it.

(Jane) #62

No, I would have to ween off the caffeine gradually prior to dry fasting and there would have to be some good data to support it before I put myself through that.

It’s hard enough to give up my beloved cream in my coffee when I fast! :grimacing:

#63

Apropos caffeine. I gladly listen to any reason to give up coffee now. I am drinking coffee every day again and can’t seem to stop - though I will now as I run out of it… I won’t give up tea but I need every help to stop drinking that stupid coffee. Money concerns aren’t strong enough. Simple determination helps but not enough. I am not even lazy enough not to bother with my normal (not instant) coffee and my tea filter (works great for coffee filter, never had such a dense thing ever) and I make a huge mess with my coffee…

(KM) #64

I’ll admit it, I take a caffeine pill and water instead, because I really hate black coffee. I can’t imagine that’s good for me, but I own my addiction!

#65

Fasting was the reason I had a time when I was fine with black coffee. I am not compatible with black coffee but I rather learned to tolerate it than not drinking it in my fasting window… It must have been not in my ancient past as I never drank coffee in the morning then… Now I drink it all day, potentially, I take my “no coffee” plans more seriously and I managed to reduce my consumption. Except on some days when I don’t care… Before I really wanted to quit, I just drank coffee all the time. I had days when I drank only coffee until 5pm. Not like it means anything really bad, I woke up late and my coffee hydrated me perfectly but still. I usually drink water too…

When I have better times, I don’t drink coffee until my first meal (usually at 3pm) and I unlearn tolerating black coffee though of course much depends on the coffee, some are nicer when black. But never nearly as good as with some cream.

(KM) #66

Just laughing to myself. My husband loves all the ritual surrounding the coffee; he has an electric kettle, and a french press, he grinds the beans with a burr grinder, he adds some cocoa nibs, he stirs it all with one of my chopsticks, he uses a timer … who knows what else. I throw my mug of water in the microwave til it boils, drop in my fine mesh tea ball, and still curse the mess of cleaning it out again. :smile:

#67

I don’t like extra work. Until very lately, I only drank instant coffee. But it’s expensive. And the non-instant is fun, smells nice… So I do it more like you, not microwave though, I boil water in my waterboiling pan (it’s its role for me. my SO makes oatmeal and pudding in it too) for multiple reasons all the time, it’s quick anyway.
I buy grounded coffee, cheap but with an aroma I like, not too bitter (that’s basic to me anyway. I am bad with bitterness and eventually I will try to drink it black…). And I put my filter with coffee in it into hot water. Multiple times because I want my coffee asap, so make a small one and then put it into bigger water and somehow my kitchen counter get coffee all over it but it’s no big deal…

I don’t like to overcomplicate my life if it’s not needed. Even if I tend to make egg milk too whenever I make my first coffee of the day and don’t have cream (that’s the norm as cream triggers coffee so I barely buy it and rarely open a box. I still drink coffee without it but I need every little chance)…

Since dry fast was mentioned, I have drank 8dl water. As I ate a lot before, I feel a bit full now.
Still thirsty. Sigh. Carbonated water works better but I just run out of it.

(KM) #68

I agree, totally. Efficient and easy is basically my motto for life. The only thing complicated and busy is my brain! I use the microwave because it’s a device that’s already here, and it’s the most efficient way to heat water and get my mug hot at the same time, which is nice when it comes to coffee.

#69

Oh, your microwave doesn’t make the mug hotter than the liquid? It’s an annoying thing. But I make my coffee hot so the mug quickly warms up anyway (good thing it has a handle).

And then my coffee has a big chance to cool down. And then comes the microwave and its cleaning when it turns out that my new, tiny cup can’t handle even 30 secs (the only time I can get with only a single button pressing that starts the microwave too… I am very lazy when things come to that. at least it’s not my old microwave with the number buttons. I used 99 sec all the time). And it gets cold again… Usually not but when one has many coffees a day and focus on other things and has my chaotic mind…

I have no coffee now. How will I handle it? Sounds easy but it’s deceptive. WHY do I want my coffee? Habit? More joy than tea? I could just drink water, simpler, cheaper, cleaner…

(KM) #70

It’s not the microwave, it’s the mug.

I cover stuff with another plate so it doesn’t splatter everywhere. Probably not as efficient on the electricity, but much more efficient on the elbow grease.

#71

There is no splattering, my coffee just boils over sometimes.

Sigh. Okay so I try to go back to my normal, natural eating window. Why I get out of it so often I don’t know, my natural one is really small! Too many temptations and too little joy in life, maybe? But it’s even spring… Eating is still special. And I am almost always in the kitchen, at least it feels so but it’s not too far from reality.

The blur option made me bold, it’s not even food, it’s very, very much not keto either. I warned you if you can be triggered as I totally can’t and I was present, being the one making it. But that’s me.

Now I made bread, at least raw bread dough isn’t tempting, actually even the freshly baked stuff isn’t as it has no eggs. What lame bred is eggless? Ew. My SO doesn’t want to eat eggs in absolutely everything (except seitan, it didn’t work there. and I don’t put eggs into my tea or water either… but pretty much everything else, the first thing I did with a marshmallow recipe -one using egg whites, of course - is to put a yolk into it to make it better) and the bread is his. I love baking, it’s the only carby food I am willing to make that needs more than 1-2 minutes of work, regularly. It happens every week.
I am super wild now, my “let’s use the last days before a hopefully carni April start” idiotic attitude kicked in… So I make keto bread as well.
That’s why I am sure I will have lunch again. I won’t be able to resist, no way. I can be super optimistic, I know what I may be able to do (skipping lunch starting tomorrow) but resisting certain freshly made things at lunchtime? Not that. Just like June won’t be carnivore, most definitely. I don’t say keto because there is a slim chance for it? Very slim. Like 0.000001% but not zero.
(Theoretically I could die until and then I wouldn’t eat anything but I give a zero chance for that too because my belief in my fate or whatever is like that.)

Erm but I write too much again. So. I go back to my small eating window now (even with lunch, I can do 3-5 hours. very rarely 1. but lunch is tricky so I go for dinner OMAD if possible. I really will push myself a tiny bit from now on), no matter what my diet becomes. I need my tiny eating window all the time. It’s natural, it’s helpful, good training to be somewhat consistent.

Considering I am lucky enough to be quite satiated until 3pm almost ever workday, I am horrible at this. It’s waiting a tad more! It seems so easy… I don’t know if it IS easy but I fail it way too often. So a tiny extra push is needed.

It’s surely totally pathetic for you who just decide on EF and do it but it’s me :slight_smile: I race with myself only. I seem to lose but I am not one to give up! :wink:

(Jane) #72

Another successful fast and this one was easy. Last one, not so much but I came down with a cold or bad allergy attack right after so that may have been a factor.

43 hrs in and will go to lunch for a 48-hr fast. Hubby is hanging with me so far but he usually breaks mid-morning. Doesn’t matter to me - just happy to have someone to fast with me for support.

Only teeth-gritting moment was when I unmolded some soft chèvre cheese I had made. A small chunk broke off and I was SOOOO tempted to pop it in my mouth LOL. But I was over 24-hrs in and wasn’t going to spoil my progress

(Doug) #73

Into the fourth day. Woke up at 4:30 a.m., couldn’t go back to sleep though I tried. Hot - especially my feet and hands, even though the house had cooled to 61 F or 16 C. This has happened before, and searching the internet shows many similar experiences while fasting but not (as I see) any sure explanations. But something happens…

(Doug) #74

Ending day 5. My wedding anniversary is tomorrow, so maybe a roasted chicken tonight. I’ve never worked so hard on a fast, and today I’m feeling it. But after a week like this, I’m not sure eating would make me feel any different. This was a good one.

(KCKO, KCFO) #75

Happy Anniversary, Doug.

(Doug) #76

:slightly_smiling_face: Thanks, Collaroygal. Had a nice dinner of pork chops and broccoli to end the fast. Didn’t really “take it easy” - had 3 porkchops and a lot of broccoli. I tasted the salty water that the broccoli had been cooked in (I always imagine that whatever good things - vitamins, minerals, enzymes, etc. - get leached out of the food in cooking will still be in the water), and it tasted awfully good. Drank a lot of that.

Food + salt + water = water retention, and I’m 4 lbs. heavier than before breaking the fast. Still, today I’m at the lowest weight in 26 years. Still some ways to go, but the direction is right.

(KCKO, KCFO) #77

Time for the April thread, so here it is: