Mailman that walks a lot – leg cramps

#21

He’s happy with his shoes with inserts. They help with back and knee pain. I think he’s just not getting enough rest days. And that’s not going to change any time soon. So he’s going to have to work with what he has. Thanks for the suggestion!

(KCKO, KCFO) #22

Has he tried ketoaide?

Here is @Brenda Zorn’s recipe. Just be careful with extra potassium, he probably needs a lot more magnesium. I sure did.

#23

Thanks for the reminder! I did use this for fasting when I first started Keto. I might still have most of the ingredients. We’ll give it a try!

#24

I’m no mailman, but I do walk a lot, lift weight a lot and work my calves a lot. The leg/calf cramps are (almost) always Magnesium. My magnesium blend is 400mg per serving, I need that twice a day to keep the cramps away. Less than that if the daytime cramps don’t get me than the nighttime ones will.

This is the one I use, it’s labeled as Citrate but it’s a blend of Citrate, Malate and Glycinate.

#25

Polyester shirts can be worn under cotton shirts.

The following article is interesting. The males in your family could be sensitive to caffeine. Caffeine increases thermogenesis and can lead to hypokalemia.

https://www.google.com/search?q=caffeine+hypokalemia

What I do remember is that my brother developed kidney stones years ago after popping jamieson “synthetic” vitamin c tablets like candy.

(KCKO, KCFO) #26

Just remembered an older post by her about leg cramps that might be useful.
https://www.ketogenicforums.com/t/leg-cramps/7805

(Bob M) #27

Personally, I have doubts that leg cramps = low Mg levels. It might be, for some people, but not for others.

I tend to have leg cramps when I do “something different”. For instance, started “sprinting” (in quotes because I’m slow; think a turtle sprinting), got leg cramps; started biking instead of sprinting; got leg cramps; started working all weekend on the house; get leg cramps.

Have the same Mg level during that time.

Others argue that increasing salt intake minimizes the loss of Mg and K. Others are convinced it’s only Mg that’s to blame.

Applying that to your husband, I think his cramps will disappear as he gets used to his route, and much or all of what he took won’t actually cause this. But I could be wrong.

(Bob M) #28

Diet Doctor’s discussion of this:

Also, after reading this book, I only drink when thirsty. That might still be a lot, though:

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #29

If you need a lot, you need a lot. That’s fine. Your question about whether the husband was drinking that much water because he was thirsty or because someone told him he had to, was right on the money.

#30

Michael’s use of the word insipid sparked a thought. Has he ever been worked up (had tests done) for diabetes insipidus? He may have been symptomatic for a long time.

I only just looked at that 3 gallons is over 13 litres per day! (I work in different units). Normal for adult males per day is about 3.5L. Your hubby is drinking almost 4 times normal. That is extraordinary thirst. Even for a physically active job. It could be called polydipsia and be a concerning symptom of underlying metabolic disease. Also that he wakes up thirsty later at night despite such a large intake.

Does he urinate a lot? (Logically he must to clear the fluid volume taken in)

It could easily cause renal medullary wash out of many electrolytes in the urine, if the intake is water. It is a concern if a body loses too much electrolytes. One concern is the development of heart arrhythmia. The leg cramps, in his case with the large fluid intake, could be an early warning sign. So much fluid flow through the body may be difficult to replace the electrolytes as per the good advice given in the thread.

I reckon one thing to consider is to get that excessive thirst thoroughly checked out by a medical specialist. The symptoms have been commented on and observed by quite a few people. That is enough to go and get checked.

Check the symptom list ( I never knew until now that a preference for cold drinks was a symptom of DI):

#31

My father and brother were both mailmen so I’m aware of the physical challenges required.
I agree with all the dietary/supplement recommendations but one piece is being left out. As a physical therapist I’d recommend a thorough stretching program done lightly before work and a more thorough sustained stretching program after work. This can be very effective for avoiding cramps. For stretches to have an effect on the tissue they need to be sustained for about 30 sec, and repeat 3x.
You might want to get him to a PT for a good assessment of where exactly he’s experiencing the cramping and the most effective stretches to target those areas. All the best! BTW, I do stretches regularly and don’t experience cramps (For exercise I dance, hike and do Pilates) My husband does cardio and cramps frequently. Refuses to stretch and relies on Potassium pills!

#32

I’ve never heard of DI, very interesting! I sent him the link. From what I remember, he’s never been specifically tested for it. It doesn’t sound familiar. His A1C has always been in the low 5’s and now it’s in the mid 4’s since he started Keto. I’ll bug him to get it checked next time he goes to the dr! Cold drinks and muscle pains are the only things on the list.

He doesn’t have a bathroom available to him on his route, he just goes when he gets back to work in the afternoon. So he’s not urinating a lot during the day. I would assume the excess water is just sweat. Since April, if he gets up at night it’s from a leg cramp usually.

Thanks so much for taking the time to try to help!!

#33

He does do stretches on his day off, he’ll also walk a bit and does house and/or yard work. I don’t think he does stretches before work but I’ve seen him stretch after. I’ll mention that to him for sure! That’s a great tip, thank you!!

(Néstor Sánchez Camacho) #34

The pattern you described points to electrolytes being flushed out due to his high water consumption. Magnesium is necessary for electric signaling used by muscle and connected neurons.
Appropriate sodium and potassium intake complete the basic triad. I suggest you search for and listen to past 2keto dudes podcast on the minerals and vitamins topics.
Before trying a single thing and discarding, learn how the combination works. A single thing might not always be and “I used to…” type of help is anecdotal. It is given with the best intention, however - most of the time though it should be considered hollistically.

#36

Diabetes insipidus is a problem with the hormone vasopressin and water and electrolyte regulation in the kidneys.

HbA1c is not affected.

Diabetes means: to flow through

In Diabetes insipidus the water flows through for reasons other than insulin and glucose.

Professor Dr. Bikman was talking about it in a recent podcast.

(Ellenor Bjornsdottir) #37

It’s the diabetes that everyone forgets about.

(265c807ada7603b40f1f) #38

I really hope you meant that he drinks 3 liters, not 3 gallons! That amount of water daily is dangerous. That’s 12 quarts, or over 11,000 ml. A normal daily amount is 2,000ml. No amount of salt could ever be enough. He need a medical work up.

(265c807ada7603b40f1f) #39

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(Jane Srygley) #40

Holy crap!

#41

Sorry to hear about the leg cramps. The tendency to get leg cramps can be partly hereditary. They run in my family, although mine are worse than most. Here is what I have found over my lifetime:

  1. Walking acerbates my leg cramps more than any other exercise, and I don’t know why. Doing long bouts of walking is almost a guarantee that I’ll get the cramps no matter what I do. I just started working for the census about 6 weeks ago and have been walking 6-8 miles daily and HOO-BABY the leg cramps have been a serious issue. I was a professional athlete for many, many years and no other exercise hits me like walking does.

  2. NO SUGAR. None. Zero. No sugar of any possible kind. Sugar is my #1 cause of leg cramps. This means anything that easily converts to sugar. NOT EVEN ONE BITE. My very first leg cramps started in my 20s when I used to eat a bowl of cereal at night as a snack. I found out, the painful way, that I can never do that. I can not eat any of the following within 5 hours of going to sleep (of course now that I am Keto, this is far less of an issue: sugar in any form, fruit, juice, ALCOHOL, any dairy, anything white, any kind of dairy, any kind of grain or grain product, any starchy veggie. If I walk a lot, the only things that I can eat from 6 pm on are nuts, meats and fats. That’s it.

  3. As many have mentioned here, Hubby MUST cut down on his water intake. He’s diluting out his electrolytes and for someone who gets leg craps that’s the kiss of death. Even working in the hot, hot sun, 4 gallons of water is WAAAY too much. He needs to half that.

  4. Take Epsom salt baths and rub your own home-made magnesium oil into his skin, especially his legs, every single night before bed. He’s got to do this. He needs magnesium and potassium, and he MUST take those supplements before bed, but also he needs to get the magnesium onto his skin. At Costco they sell big bags of Epsom salts. He needs to do an Epsom salt soak every night for a while. And he needs to use a LOT of the Epsom salts. 3 or 4 cups per soak. Also, make your own magnesium oil. Super easy. Take a container and fill it with Epsom salts. Add water to the top. Put in a few Tablespoons of any kind of natural oil: Olive oil, grapeseed oil (great choice because it’s not greasy), rice bran oil. Stick to something natural. Maybe add a few drops of mint oil if you like or your favorite essential oil. Then just keep the container in the shower. After he’s done with his shower or soak, take handfuls of the mixture and rub it into the skin everywhere. Leave it on for a minute or two. Rinse. Not only will his skin feel good, he’ll get a good does of magnesium. When he’s having the cramps, the best thing to do is to immediately get into the hottest tub you can with Epsom salts and cover the body with your magnesium oil. It’s the only thing that stops the cramps.

  5. Take magnesium and potassium within an hour of bed time and again in the morning. I just get my stuff at Costco. Got to take it every single night.

When I get leg cramps, they , LITERALLY, feel like someone is stabbing me with a knife and twisting the knife as hard as they can. I have an incredible high pain tolerance and bad leg cramps can put me to the ground screaming in pain. These are what I have found that works for me. I hope they work for him as well.

Restless leg syndrome