Low Ketones? General frustration/sadness. Help? =(

(Chantay) #1

I’ve been keto for 2.5 months. Averaging around 25g net carbs a day (50g net with lots of fiber from veggies.) I tried ketostix and never saw any readings, so I went ahead and ordered a blood meter. I was so excited!

Until it read 0.2 (at 2pm, about 5 hours after breakfast.) This is super low, according to Phinney’s chart for optimal ketosis. I’m so disappointed! I feel like curling up and crying – this has been difficult (not eating more fat, but getting control of my hunger.) At this point I think I’m going to have to cut things like dairy and nuts out completely, and that’s frustrating.

Here are bullet point stats, maybe someone can make some sense of wtf is going on?

  • 5’6" female, 169 pounds (gained about 5 pounds since starting keto), 30% body fat from last BodPod.
  • Shooting for about 1500-1600 calories a day, struggle to maintain that through hunger/cravings. 25g net carbs, around 85g of protein a day
  • PCOS, endometriosis, no thyroid (radiation ablation about 12 years ago), on synthetic replacement hormones
  • Multiple Sclerosis, taking interferon for this (this is tied with losing weight as the main reason for going keto)
  • Heavy weight lifting using super sets with minimal rest, about 60 minutes 4x a week
  • Generally get about 20k “steps” using a high resistance under desk pedal bike at work, supplement with steady state elliptical cardio if I have a “lazy” day.

My diet is lots of fatty meats (rib eyes, chicken thighs, deep fried wings, etc.), a good amount of dairy in the form of cheese, sour cream, 45ml of half & half in my three cups of morning coffee, and a ton of veggies like broccoli, broccolette, zucchini, bok choy, spinach, etc. I’ve tried to cut back on nuts and seeds already, cause I find I over eat them. I’ve been trying to cut back on snacking, but prior to that my snacks were pepperoni slices, pepperoni sticks, liverwurst, or sugar free pickles. I read labels obsessively. I have a food scale at work, at home, and in my purse just in case. I log everything into my FitBit app.

Potential culprits: Splenda in morning coffee, 1/2 cup servings of Halo Top occasionally, cheese.

Gaining weight has been frustrating, but I’ve been sticking with it. I guess I was really hoping that my ketosis level was deeper and that would make me feel like at least I’m on the right track, but FUCK! I feel so frustrated. I just want to throw something. Anyone have thoughts? I could really use some help.

(Sherry Richie) #2

I just got my keto meter and tested for the first time. I’ve been keto for 4 weeks and my reading was 0.7, which I know is low, but getting there. I keep my carbs (total) under 20. I’m wondering if your carbs might be too high. Have you tried lowering them to 20g or less?

#3

Maybe sub heavy cream for half & half? Less carbs in HWC and they add up quickly when adding to 3 cups coffee. Also remember that ketone reading was a snapshot, the levels are changing all the time. If you are getting some of the benefits of ketosis, don’t get too discouraged by one reading😉

(David Karlsson) #4

I feel you Chantruese,

I’m not an expert from what I’m reading these could be to possible reasons:

Is it possible be that you’re eating too much protein that would be converted to glucose? I have read that the amount of protein we need are lower than one might think (have no science to back that up though). I’m currently eating around 50-60g of protein per day, seen no detrimental effect on muscle gain, training 4-5 days a week (20-30 mins of resistance training). I’m a 25 year old male at around 76kg/185cm.

As a side note, I would avoid fried food and find a healthier source of that fat. Cheese also have a very high amount of protein so are you perhaps eating more than you are aware of? I’m one of those who have a hard time eating just a “little” bit of delicious cheese :slight_smile:

Could it be that you are overtraining with low quality sleep which maybe causing you too much stress? I’ve heard stress and cortisol can impact ketotis. Are you maybe taking supplements like BCAA? I believe they cause insulin spikes that can kick you out of ketotis.

I’m far from an expert but it can help you in some way and I hope you find what the problem might be. Hang in there!

#5

Also your calorie count seems pretty low for someone as active as you are, you did not mention how much fat you’re eating. I know it’s hard to do this, but try not setting a calorie limit for a week. Maybe if you put more fat in your meals (which certainly will increase calories, but this is irrelevant since it will cause little to no insulin response) you will be more sated and feel less hungry/ less tempted to snack. Just a thought, KCKO!

(Deb) #6

Since I was in about the same situa2a few months ago , I’ll tell you what I had to do to start losing again. My stats were pretty much the same. I lowered both protein and fat intake, and yes, had to lose the nuts and most of the cheeses and the fattier meats. At this point, I had to cut back the fat so my body would be able to use my body fat, and cut the protein to keep insulin low. I also do at least IF of 16:8 or better every day. Lots of green leafy veggies. Lugols for my thyroid , selenium, magnesium, sea salt when fasting…

And wow…you are training incredibly hard! Any reason why? It will help with LBM in the long long run but the adage is true" lose weight at the table, build muscle at the gym". I do Zumba 2x a week for an hour…maybe w hours if practicing routines…and short weight routine 2x…15 minutes each. I think what you are seeing on the scale is most likely inflammation and water weight from training.

(Chantay) #7

I can try going that low, but the volume that I get from veggies is the only thing making me not murderous. I keep waiting for the magical moment where I’m not hungry, and obviously I’m not there cause I’m clearly not fat adapted. Two months of fighting with being hungry AND still gaining weight really pisses me off.

Also, just a side note, I was low carb before starting keto (less than 100g a day), so I guess I thought the transition would be faster.

I’ve also tried talking with my PCP about this, but she really pushes the standard “healthy grains” diet. I’m trying to find a doctor more open to this diet, because I wonder how much my hormones being screwed up is making this more difficult.

Long story short, I can try even lower carb, yes. Sorry, didn’t mean to rant out a novel, and I really appreciate you taking time to respond! :smile:

(Chantay) #8

I’ve had a hard time justifying the calorie load of heavy cream, but I’ll give it a whirl. I’ve been thinking I should switch to straight black, so I don’t have to worry about calories OR carbs, but damn I don’t like black coffee! Haha. I’ll try switching and see if I can make it work. Thank you!

(Chantay) #9

Honestly, I just love the lifting, and have been doing it for about 8 months! Nothing makes you feel like a badass like hoisting 300 pounds off the floor over and over again! :slight_smile:

The peddling at work is cause I’m super fidgety. I have a hard time sitting still, so it helps me stay focused on work without getting up every ten minutes to pace.

I don’t work out to lose weight, I work out to be strong and have good muscles. Part off that is fear that if something happens with the MS, I’ll be strong enough that I will recover better/faster. Figure having more muscle makes it harder to waste away too quickly. :smiley:

What are lugols? I’ve never heard of them, I’m always curious about alternatives to Synthroid.

(Chantay) #10

Thanks for the reply! I keep carbs to < 25 grams net, protein to 85 grams, and then fat for the rest. According to my food log, that’s about 110 grams on an average day. I freaked out when the scale jumped so much, so 1500 is where I landed based on basically all the internet calculators. Can’t trust them damn internets, right? Haha! :smile:

(Kristin Rogers) #11

I feel like this is my answer to everything (I am unofficial keto coach to several friends) but, eat more, eat more fat, don’t count calories and relax…
More specifically:

What’s your goal weight? How long ago was the body fat test (I am not familiar with bod pod - how accurate are they?)
Not everyone’s body belongs in the “normal” BMI range.

Huge red flag!! If you are struggling to keep a calorie count it is too low! Keto is the not-hungry diet. I would try making sure your meals are SATISFYING. In a way that maybe feels excessive at first. If you are really eating enough fat at a meal, it shouldn’t be difficult to get to the next meal without a snack.
There have been studies about how calorie restriction damages metabolism, it’s not a great idea. And it’s also really hard emotionally in my experience.

How long since your last thyroid panel? I have been on meds for years and years and just recently had to adjust again after a long time at a steady dose. I find having my TSH right around 1.0 is best for me. Might be worth fine tuning (I don’t think that is why you aren’t in ketosis, but could be making weight loss harder)

(I don’t know anything about MS, so skipped that one)

That’s a lot of exercise. Potentially too much (certainly too much at the calorie level you are at). Exercise is stress (good stress, but still stress). Could you cut back just to focus on food/getting into keto for a few weeks?
Stress can definitely make ketosis harder to get to. Often people who are generally in ketosis will be bumped out right after exercise, as the liver generates glucose to fuel the muscles. If you are doing it all the time, you aren’t giving your body a chance to get fat adapted.

I really think you should cut way back on exercise, eat a lot more fat and don’t count calories. Don’t weigh food. Probably eat fewer veggies. Your satiety should come from fat not volume of veg. Cook everything in butter or bacon fat. Definitely heavy cream. Don’t worry about nuts and cheese, but do try to just eat meals with few/no snacks.

I feel for you so much - I have come to find patience with the number on the scale, but the upside of keto is not being hungry and it is not just a perk, I think it is necessary.
I hope this is helpful, and not too much telling you what to do :slight_smile:

(Paul) #12


Check out this pod cast. Leanne Vogal looks at the keto diet from a women’s view point. Her book is awsome and it explains a lot. Look her up on Amozine and check out her pod cast. Also check out Jimmy More and Drew Manning they both have a pod cat as well. I’m new to this life changing event so that’s about all I can offer you. I hope it will help.

(Deb) #13

Synthroid never did a thing for me so researched natural thyroid treatment and found Lugol’s iodide/iodine solution. I get it on Amazon…and I’ve never been better. Last year I laid in bed every minute that I wasn’t working; this year, I can’t do enough. It sounds like your energy level is fine though!
I know what you mean about lifting; I feel the same about my Zumba. Maybe just crank it back for a week , make a couple dietary changes like recommended above, and see what happens with the scale.

(Chantay) #14

Thanks for the kind words. I guess it’s possible I’m eating too much protein. I’ve been targeting 85 grams a day, but I could start to dial that back a little and see how I feel. I’ve been feeling pretty good after workouts (not having crazy pain or long recovery, which is nice.)

We don’t deep fry too often, but my husband loves fried chicken wings, and since he puts up with all my crap, I figure I owe him that one every once in a while. :slight_smile:

I do take a BCAA, but maybe I’ll can it for a while and see how I do. I weigh all my food cause holy craaaap it’s easy to throw back 400 cals and not realize it, especially with something like cheese!!

Stress is an issue. My family…I love 'em, but they are super emotionally taxing. I’ve been thinking about getting back into some light yoga for that very reason.

Thank you for your input, I really appreciate it!

(Chantay) #15

Thank you so much for taking the time to write out such a thoughtful reply. I really appreciate it!! I’ll try to keep things in order. :slight_smile:

My goal weight is around 155. I think it’s a mental thing, cause that takes me out of “overweight” and into healthy BMI. I already know that BMI is kinda bullcrap, but just once, ONCE, I’d like to shove it in my doctor’s face, lol. Body fat test was two months ago? Right before I started keto. I’ll have another one in August. They are said to be +/- 1%, which for me is close enough right now. I might do a DEXA from sheer curiosity at some point.

How long to recover from metabolic slowdown? Any recommendations for calories? I worry, since there are studies that say women with PCOS tend to be under standard BMR by a significant amount.

Thyroid was just checked in May. I am looking for a doctor that will address t3 in addition to t4, since mine is low and my PCP won’t touch it.

I’d like to keep my activity level. It boosts my mood a ton, but maybe I can adjust calories? I’m worried that my body is stubborn and just wants to store right now, and I don’t know why.

I’m trying to ditch the scale. I’ve lost about 100 pounds over the last 6-7 years just slowly changing habits. There’s a deep seated terror with the idea of gaining it back. That’s a hard move to make.

(David Karlsson) #16

I can also relate to the “need” to lifting weight, I recently (like six month ago) cut back on training from when I was going to the gym twice every single day landing on 14 trainings sessions per week. Worked fine for a month or two but then went downwards. Guess it’s easy to find yourself in “the more, the better” mentality. So the doing the light yoga as a retreat to reduce the stress seems like a wonderful idea.

I also relate to the familiy part to some degree. Though I am not a parent myself,I can’t imagine how it is, but I do really admire all the hard efforts all the parents out there put into it. I just moved out from my parents a few month ago and I know it’s a struggle when not everyone is onboard the same boat as you when it comes to diet, understandably so. Especially when you have a mother who loves baking heavenly sweet sugarfilled cakes that seem to appear right in front of you nose where ever you go :slight_smile:

Again, hang in there. I’m convinced you will get through it :slight_smile:

Best wished and have a great day

(Allie) #17

It may just be that you’re having too many carbs as some people need to stay below 20g total in order to get into ketosis.
You mentioned 50g net in your post, even 50g total would be too much for many.

(Karen Fricke) #18

I think too much protein, 1 gram per kg of lean body mass, by your description, lean body mass is closer to 50-55 kg. Combine that with your carbs being over the standard, and you will have trouble staying in ketosis. Crank your fat up and you likely won’t be as hungry.

(Chantay) #19

I’ve been 25g net, but it might be worth cranking down a little. Thank you. :slight_smile:

(Chantay) #20

It sounds like I have a few options, but I’m going to start with keeping total carbs to 25g for the next couple weeks. I don’t want to change too much at once cause then I don’t know what’s working. Thanks, everyone, for the kindness and feedback. I appreciate the ledge-talking-downing. :slight_smile: