Low Ketones? General frustration/sadness. Help? =(

[Shortstuff]

Good luck, I hope you find what works for you.

Remember to give each change a decent amount of time to work before changing something else.

[Chantruese]

I just looked through some of the zero carb threads, thinking about going kinds of drastic as a kick start - do any of you guys do ZC? If so, do you supplement fiber?

[Suzanneb]

@Chantruese
Hi! I also have PCOS and had to eliminate dairy from my choices. The milk sugars would trigger hunger and cravings for me.
I also echo everyone on here who says protein might be too high.
Don’t give up! Keep experimenting to find what works for you. it will be worth it!

[Suzanneb]

I do zero carb. No fiber suppliments. Not needed.
Stop trying to keep calories low and eat fat fat fat. Remember: fat is our friend!

[Jason_Fletcher]

First I have to say WOW you have a lot going on reading this thread was making my head spin. I am trying to figure out what your goals are from what i read. Some counter each other and by doing so they are going to make you nuts. I think you have to make a list of goals and put them in priority. If your number one goal is high ketones then fasting and using MCT oil will push you levels up. I could see a reason you would want to have higher ketones since there is some science suggesting it may help with MS. IF your goal is to build and muscle and strength your going to need to be in a surplus plus the kind of aerobic workouts you are doing are counter productive to this. If you are feeling that you have to constantly move[quote=“Chantruese, post:9, topic:15738”]
The peddling at work is cause I’m super fidgety. I have a hard time sitting still, so it helps me stay focused on work without getting up every ten minutes to pace.
[/quote]
I would think this is a hormonal thing or to much coffee. Your BMR would be higher i think.

If your goal is to cut body fat % you will have to cut your fat macros. You can boost your BMR with HIIT work outs. But doing more then 2 a week can be hard on your body. Your still going to want to lift heavy to prevent muscle loss.
If you are at 30% that is still in a healthy zone for a woman. Since you do have MS I would say sparing muscle is a priority at this point and your goal would be to build strength and muscle. Keeping MCT’s high in your diet as well should boost your Ketones and potentially help with the therapeutic effects. Eliminating carbs all but fiber would be best. The amino acids in protein do cause a insulin response that does drop Ketone levels. Some proteins have a greater impact then others. BCAA’s will cause this spike. BCAA’s are not needed if you are getting good sources of animal protein. If you do use BCAA’S or Whey protein it is best to time them right around when you lift because this is when your insulin is naturally its highest. If you are lifting heavy the muscle damage (this is normal) will cause cortisol levels to rise and ketones to drop. I would focus on the results you get from strength gains rather then worry about high ketone levels.

[Chantruese]

My goals are, in order:

1. Do the right thing to help my brain. This means being off the carbs long-term, and making sure my brain is running on ketones instead of glucose.
2. Maintain my strength so I’m able to back bounce if something happens. I’m not necessarily looking to build a bunch more muscle (I’m pretty strong now), but I don’t want to LOSE it, either.
3. Cut some body fat. I’d like to be more like 25%. I need to accept that this is NOT the priority. Husband has been instructed to re-hide the scale for the next 6 weeks.

I don’t know that these goals are completely at odds with each other? I can easily cut the BCAA’s - we eat dinner and then work out about 30-45 minutes after, so loading up on BCAAs 15 minutes before kinda seems like overkill (my last two lifting sessions I’ve not taken them, and feel just fine.)

I’m going to be forced to take a lifting break at the end of August. I’m getting surgery on my wrist, and won’t be able to lift for a while. I’m thinking I can use the next 6 weeks to ignore calories entirely and just lift and eat fat. Then, once I’m forced to stop lifting for a bit, experiment with some HIIT workouts on the elliptical instead. I’m hoping that by the time surgery rolls around, I’ll be more fat adapted.

My goal for this week is to stay below 20g TOTAL carbs each day. I’ll keep chugging my ketoaide and broth. I can do this.

[Jason_Fletcher]

I don’t know that these goals are completely at odds with each other? I can easily cut the BCAA’s - we eat dinner and then work out about 30-45 minutes after, so loading up on BCAAs 15 minutes before kinda seems like overkill (my last two lifting sessions I’ve not taken them, and feel just fine.)

BCAA’S are not a preworkout and will not give you more energy for the workout sometimes they are mixed in a preworkout with caffeine They are designed to maximize protein synthesis.

I’m thinking I can use the next 6 weeks to ignore calories entirely and just lift and eat fat.

The thinking ignoring calories entirely is that your body will self regulate the hormones and you will eat to satiation and your body will balance out. At 30% body fat you are at a healthy % for a woman and your body most likely will find this as the balance. Since you lift hard and work out a lot your cortisol levels are going to be high and this will increase your cravings beyond satiation. Plus you have other factors that cant be accounted for like your thyroid meds and what MS is doing to your hormones. Cutting carbs below 20g will get you to your first goal. Lifting like you have been will keep your 2nd goal. I am not sure if you thought about investing in a Skulpt they are not bad at tracking progress of body fat%. I always say get one if you hate it return it.

experiment with some HIIT workouts on the elliptical instead.

HIIT on a elliptical is hard to do since once you get to a max pace it loses resistance. Not saying you cant get a good work out just harder to get a efficient HIIT workout.
Sprints work well if you don’t have equipment and if you are conditioned to do them without injury.
A spin bike would be the best. Since you want to go to failure in about 15 to 20 seconds each set.you would start and up the resistance until you fail at the given time. Then let heart rate recover and do next rep. Doing only 4 to 10 sets would be good.

[kristinisketo]

My goal weight is around 155. I think it’s a mental thing, cause that takes me out of “overweight” and into healthy BMI. I already know that BMI is kinda bullcrap, but just once, ONCE, I’d like to shove it in my doctor’s face, lol. Body fat test was two months ago? Right before I started keto. I’ll have another one in August. They are said to be +/- 1%, which for me is close enough right now. I might do a DEXA from sheer curiosity at some point.

I think that the goal weight is almost always a mental thing
Sometimes for me, it can be helpful to put the weight goal on hold - like right now, focus on doing what it takes to get into ketosis (more fat, maybe less activity), and then turn your attention to the weight.
I will say that having lost 100 pounds is AMAZING and there’s a lot to shove in a doctor’s face already I did the Dexa scan and that is what convinced me that for me the BMI guideline is not appropriate (I have a lot of lean mass compared to other 200 pound 5 foot 9 inch tall women - still have some to lose, but not the 40 pounds that BMI suggests)

How long to recover from metabolic slowdown? Any recommendations for calories? I worry, since there are studies that say women with PCOS tend to be under standard BMR by a significant amount.

I don’t know much about the BMR for PCOS, but I do know that many people have had reversal of symptoms with keto diet for PCOS (since it is a set of symptoms related to insulin resistance).
I don’t have a calorie recommendation except to say that you shouldn’t be restricting them at all. Again, think of this as a measure to get into ketosis, separate from weight loss goals. Eat LOTS. I also think this is the way to come back from a damaged metabolism. Let your body know it isn’t starving, there is plenty of energy about for it to do its work

Thyroid was just checked in May. I am looking for a doctor that will address t3 in addition to t4, since mine is low and my PCP won’t touch it.

endocrinologist or natruopath is good for this, in my experience

I’d like to keep my activity level. It boosts my mood a ton, but maybe I can adjust calories? I’m worried that my body is stubborn and just wants to store right now, and I don’t know why.

If you’re exercising that much, you definitely need to eat more. I wonder, though, if there is a way to keep the mood boost without quite so much volume. A nice walk outside after dinner instead of as much during the day exercise…
I love lifting heavy things too (but have been sidelined by injuries unrelated to said heavy things), but again, maybe just a super short term reduction to give your body a chance to adapt?

Congratulations on all of your success - you clearly have a TON of focus and persistence to lose so much over 6-7 years. I can understand not wanting to gain it back, but it won’t be undone by eating more for a few weeks to give keto a fighting chance

Good luck and keep it up!

[brownfat]

Dr Terry Wahls is a physician who reversed her MS with a keto/paleo/heavy on leafy greens diet. You might check out her book “The Wahls Protocol”.

It sounds to me like you are doing a lot right. If you are doing heavy lifting perhaps some of your weight gain is muscle? You might try tracking your efforts with a tape measure and/or skin fold calipers to better distinguish between fat and muscle.

[VirginiaEdie]

Hello,

You have had a great outpouring of responses, that I admit I glanced through but did not read each one completely, so I hope I am not repeating anything.

One thing I’ve learned about eating ketogenically is that our salt needs increase. We should be eating 4 to 5 grams of salt per day. You are not only eating a ketogenic diet, but you are also exercising a lot. You probably need more salt. I have found that sometimes I am still hungry after having a large/high caloric meal. If I take in about a gram of salt (I use bouillon cubes), the hunger goes away. So, I believe that sometimes when we are hungry, it is really just our body wanting more sodium.

Good luck,
Edith

[Chantruese]

Thank you!! That’s actually a great point. All that sweat just pours out the salt, and it doesn’t help that it’s been over 100 degrees here for the last couple of weeks (and my old cute cars don’t have air conditioning! The things we do for love!)

I’ll try to track and make sure I’m getting closer to 6g a day on the sodium, I hadn’t even considered that.

[KetogurlNE]

I think not lifiting is the wrong change to make. It is good for you mentally and physically. Be aware that it is VERY normal and expected for ketone levels to be low after anerobic exercise and it doesn’t mean you are not following a Keto diet properly. I learned this the hard way [quote=“MKChitown, post:2, topic:10125”]
Anaerobic
[/quote]

ok I’m not sure I linked that correctly but I had a similar experience and folks here helped me understand what was going on!

[Chantruese]

Oh, I’m not stopping lifting, I just love it too much. I have to take a break when I get wrist surgery next month, so I’ll try HIIT for a bit while I wait for my wrist to be healed up, but I plan on going right back to it. Thank you for the link!! Great info!