Low carbohydrate diets are unsafe and should be avoided


#1

Someone on FB posted this recently because she knew I was doing keto and doesnt agree with it and I was hoping to get some thoughts from you guys.

My intial thoughts:

I dont see a link to the original study - or studies rather since it seems to be a culmination or multiple ones that agree with each other. They are determinging everything on one metric from what I can see: low carb and premature death or death by stroke/cardiovascular etc etc. They dont designate what low-carb means. How low is low? They have zero specifics on the diets that are actually being practiced and offer no details into metabolic data of any kind. It just seems like one big correlation that has absolutely no explanation other than “animal protein, and specifically red and processed meat, has already been linked with an increased risk of cancer.”

So? Correlation isnt equal to causation. I imagine that people who already have one or even a host of metabolic disorders are the ones attempting low carb so they already have health complications that are not being accounted for. Plus Im not sure how the other host of studies got their data. How can we compare them?

I could be reading this with Keto lenses though so input is appreciated.


#2

This study has been discussed and debunked on the forum previously.

Also, Jimmy Moore debunked it on one his podcast. If I remember correctly without rereading the threads, the title of the study is mislabeled because the participants were not really on a low-carb diet. They were at 35% carbs which is not low-carb. Also, they used food diaries which are very unreliable.

So in short, it is more junk science.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #3

Especially when you only ask the participants what they ate twice in the first couple of years out of a twenty-five-year period. Like everyone keeps eating the same menu for twenty-five years straight?


(Running from stupidity) #4

Epidemiological studies are much more likely to be BS than not, there’s just so many fail points.


(Bill C) #5

There are wide-ranging ideas on macros and most of the top medical schools and institutions do not encourage people to stay on keto for extended periods of time. I believe the verdict is out at this time but I do think it would be wise to take into account what some prestigious naysayers are saying and not just dismiss it as old school.

I don’t think there is any doubt one can effectively reach their goals using keto. The question is, is it good for you long-term. Or will there be more negatives than positives.

For this reason, I do both. I stay low carb sometimes for long periods of time and get results but I also believe it is wise to infuse your body with high fiber foods as well, since your body needs fiber. If you go straight keto the daily fiber needs can be tough to reach.


(Lonnie Hedley) #6

Show me the science. This has been pretty well debunked.


(Bill C) #7

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/in-depth/fiber/art-20043983


(Lonnie Hedley) #8

“found mainly in fruits, vegetables, whole grains and legumes”

I’ll stop reading from here thanks.


(Running from stupidity) #9

That’s just an article, it’s not science per se.


(Bill C) #10

Just like your comments.


(Running from stupidity) #11

I don’t post articles in response to people asking for the science.


(Brian) #12

Bill C, how do you quantify how much fiber your body needs and how would you know if you weren’t getting it? I don’t know why a person couldn’t eat keto and get all the fiber that they need. I eat a good many veggies, nuts, and even a few small fruits. The “lower end” is working just fine, no issues there whatsoever, smooth and fully functional. What exactly would I be needing the additional fiber for?

There are ways of being keto that have very little fiber and other ways of being keto that have quite a lot of fiber. I’m not certain one size fits all. Some who eat carnivore or nearly so claim to have normal function and some even claim that fiber causes them massive problems.

A person telling the world how many grams of fiber they should be eating is a lot like a bodybuilder telling everyone within the sound of their voice that they should be bench pressing 400 pounds. Maybe a few will fit into that nicely. A few may exceed that. Many never will come even close and yet somehow manage to live full, complete and healthy lives.

I’d much prefer to deal with fiber on an as needed basis. If my body is telling me that it needs more fiber, we’ll see what we can do. If it’s doing just fine the way things are, I’m not going to rock the boat. And right now, we’re happy. And we’re keto.

Good luck!


(Bill C) #13

Why does anyone ask questions if the same response is given each and every time? And that answer is, keto is working for me. Disregard what Stanford, The Mayo Clinic and The Harvard Medical School is saying. Fiber? Eh, who needs that? I’m feeling fine. Carbs? Nah. Hey, if it works for the Inuits, it will work for me. Measure? Quantify? Hell, no, I’ve got my keto. Do what works for you.


(Brian) #14

I’m not sure I should but I’m gonna answer.

I read through the article you posted, Bill C. The reasons they were stating that we needed a high fiber diet are: 1) for normal bowel movements, 2) bowel health, 3) lowering cholesterol, 4) helping control blood sugar, and 5) aiding in achieving a healthy weight.

Some people do have a harder time adjusting to a keto diet than others. That’s well known. But bowel movements normalize over time. If they don’t, it’s time to seek help, and people do. (Sometimes it can be adding fiber, sometimes it is avoiding fiber.) As I have stated, I do not have a problem in that area. My bowel health is just fine. I have no issues with diverticulitis. I do not have hemorrhoids. I eat things like yogurt and sauerkraut and have a healthy gut bacteria.

I think there is quite a bit of data out there that proves that people can and do have healthy cholesterol levels with a keto diet. You can bark up that tree for a very long time and you’re not gonna get much satisfaction with real people eating a keto diet. Besides, even mainstream medicine is finally starting to (reluctantly) admit that maybe cholesterol isn’t the monster it’s been made out to be the last few decades.

If you spend any time at all here, you know there are hundreds if not thousands of people here who have either dramatically lowered their needs for diabetes meds or gotten off of them completely by eating a low-carb / keto diet. This is not new, it’s been around for decades. This is not quackery. People are normalizing their blood sugar with a ketogenic diet. And there are real medical doctors seeing real patients that advocate a ketogenic diet to their patients and have excellent results year after year. They don’t need Stanford or Harvard or any other university or medical school to tell them how poor of a job they may be doing with their patients. They have the feedback right there in their own offices.

Finally, as for the matter of maintaining a healthy weight, maybe you should look at the company you’re in here. There are very few people who are not improving their situation on the keto diet, losing weight, getting closer to a healthy weight or maintaining a healthy weight while eating a low-carb / keto diet. I’ve lost 70 pounds and am getting close to my weight goal. Others have lost more than that. It’s pretty common with people who’ve adopted a keto way of life.

So I’ll ask you the questions again, how do you quantify how much fiber your body needs and how would you know if you’re not getting enough? If it’s a matter of being satisfied that the five things mentioned in the above article are satisfactory in the person eating a ketogenic diet, or at least going in the right direction, It would seem the person in question is getting enough fiber.

That said, there are some people who do not do as well on a keto diet. Some of it is genetic. Some have tried it and not done well and then moved on to some other way of eating that works for them. If you are one for whom keto doesn’t work, why stick around here? Go find a good fit for you. Hey, I tried for decades to be a plant based vegan and vegetarian. (Talk about high fiber!) I ended up prediabetic, obese, and set up nicely for a heart attack and/or stroke. That’s not the kind of health I was looking for. Keto has turned a lot of that stuff around for me. I’m in better health then I’ve been in 20 years and still improving. So when I read a news story from Harvard or where ever that tells me I need to be a plant based vegan or vegetarian to be healthy, I’m sorry, I just can’t do that. Been there, done that, it wasn’t good for me. I wanted it to work for me, I really did. I wanted to prove how healthy it was. And I still kinda envy people who can eat that way and be healthy. I can’t.

Hitch your wagon to whatever star you choose. But if you should find yourself going the wrong way, unhitch and find a new star. Good luck in your journey. I hope you find what you’re looking for.


(Lonnie Hedley) #15

Why do you trust these sources when they spew the same misinformation year after year regarding nutrition? The medical community is necessary for a lot, but many of us feel they’re lagging WAY behind when it comes to what is a healthy diet.


(Bill C) #16

“These sources?” “Spew?” These sources happen to be Stanford, Harvard and the Mayo Clinic. Although I feel the food pyramid is all wrong, I do not dismiss what these institutions have to say. A lot of emotion imparted in most of your posts.


(Lonnie Hedley) #17

And they have a long standing history of promoting nutritional advice that has been proven incorrect.

If you read @Bellyman ‘s post, you’d maybe get a small idea why the article you posted can’t be used as a blanket statement for everyone.

If you want to blindly believe what those institution say about nutrition that’s on you. Still waiting on you to provide some legitimate science to your fiber claim.


(Bill C) #18

(Lonnie Hedley) #19
  1. Another article, not the research.
  2. The research was done on mice.

Try again?


(Lonnie Hedley) #20

As a follow up, I skimmed the actual research. They were feeding the mice 76% carbohydrate, 9% fat, 14% protein. This correlates to the SAD diet. It’s very possible/probable if you’re clogging your colon with all those carbs, you’ll need to up your fiber. However, for those of us eating 75+% fat, we don’t have any issues and so this does not relate to our bowel situation.

Again, you can’t blanket statement everyone needs fiber. Maybe if you eat high carb, but that’s not the reality for most of us in this forum.