Low-carb puppy food

(Denise) #1

…and I hope it’s ok to do this topic since I really need help from folks that might do a keto-type diet for their dogs, or other pets.

My puppy seems very energetic and healthy, plus she had a thorough “health check” at the vets, but I didn’t think to bring up a low-carb diet for her. But I am now because she’s doing a lot of poops, at least 2 at a time, and if I take my eyes off of her she will at least try to eat her poop. I have literally had to get it out of her mouth, no more description of that necessary.

We are now working on outdoor pottying because I was warned that she had to have her full set of shots before I could safely take her out around areas where other dogs have been. This whole grass area around where we live, neighbors take their dogs as well. So it’s been rough having her poop and pee on pads, plus re-training her now is doubly hard as it would have been with our very, own yard.

I need to feed her so she is getting all she needs, especially absorbing the nutrients, not just pooping them out.
Can someone help annie and I both here?? I wanted a puppy to bring up myself as healthy as I can do, so exercise, she gets a lot, but I am very unsure of food for her. Below Annie’s pic is video of guy I think is pretty good, let me know if you agree or disagree :wink:

thanks for any help, Denise & Annie


(Bob M) #2

We feed our dog raw food. It’s expensive, though. Something like this. We usually get patties and morsels and mix them:

(Denise) #3

I can’t do expensive, but thinking I’ll either make her food myself, or get a good, low carb kibble and add digestive enzymes. Only in thinking stage right now, but I can cook up burger or steak, whatever eye eat, then freeze in using my foodsaver. That video I shared has a recipe for a sort of low carb, but I’d have to determine a dogs needs over a humans first.

How low carb in other words, I mean, I’m not even sure dogs thrive on a Keto, or carnivore diet the same as humans??


Blue Buffalo Wilderness was what we landed on for our dog for years, just shy of carnivore for them. I’m not 100% sold on the whole dog’s eating keto though, people make the same arguments they make for people, usually pretended that their dogs are wild wolves and not domesticated versions for thousands of years, and in many cases, breeds that never existed before we forced it.

Fast forward, some of his numbers on blood work and stool weren’t perfect, wasn’t terrible either and our Vet recommended a less strict dog food where he’d get some veggies and anti-oxidents and fruits and veggies that they put in there, we stuck with Blue Buffalo, still a really clean one with no byproduct/meals etc, but he’s done much better on it.

My brothers dog, and two of my brother in laws dogs were poop eaters, takes negative reinforcement to fix that, it’s a behavioral thing. When their mother sees them do something wrong/stupid, she bites them. Dog’s have a different mind than we do, but what’s the same is equating doing something = I don’t like what happens!

(Denise) #5

This is what I believe, with all the crap videos I saw on training your dog. Especially giving them treats, treats and more treats. I finally started using common sense like, your negative reinforcement and she has finally stopped biting at my clothing and shoes, and all I did was make sound hitting the desk etc. with a rolled up ad-newspaper. She doesn’t like the sound so she stops and I add in a “Annie No” and hand her a chew toy, then when she takes it I praise her with a “good girl”.

I think I’ll go for the Blue Buffalo as well. See how she does once I transition her. I don’t care for this natures recipe puppy, because of the bunch of sweet potatoes and other carbs.

Thanks much lfod, dogs are not people, as much as I love my “baby” she is a dog :wink:

(Denise) #6

I hope you won’t mind me asking you this I wanted to send you just a private message but I couldn’t figure it out on my phone the site doesn’t look the same on my phone as you probably know anyway do you have any pointers on how to get a puppy to quit biting me I try and hold her and get her to kind of settle down and she just keeps biting at my hand no matter what and I have no clue how to get her to stop doing that and she bites at my feet when I’m walking across the floor and I mean she hasn’t drawn any blood but sooner or later it’s going to happen or she’s going to trip me so if you have any pointers or if anyone else has any pointers I’d sure appreciate it I didn’t want to make a whole another thread just on that thanks much for any help Denise

(Megan) #7

Hi Denise, congrats on your lovely wee girl. She’s still very young, yes? One of the best things you can do with young puppies is redirect. It’s non-adversive and will help you with behaviours she will very likely grow out of. Remembering many behaviours are temporary will save you a lot of stress.

Puppies mouth and bite, it’s a big part of how they learn about their world. Also moving things like feet and hands, and hanging moving things like clothing, are stimulating their natural prey and play drives. An example of re-directing biting feet and clothing as you walk is to make a wee flirt pole or use a sturdy cat one. Jiggle it away from you as you walk and she’ll most likely chase and bite that, not you and your clothing.

Dogs also learn to repeat behaviours that get them any kind of attention. One school of thought is to completely ignore everything you don’t like and praise/reinforce what you do. You have to completely ignore it tho for this to work. That means no eye contact as well as no touch, no talk, even leaving the room. I personally don’t have the patience for a broad use of this type of approach but have successfully used it for a couple of behaviours.

Regarding the poop eating and potty training as you transition her to going outside: Are you taking her to her indoor pads and using a specific word that means go pee and poop, or is she taking herself? If it’s the latter I suggest you start taking her very frequently, use the go pee/poop words you choose then remove the pads when she’s done. When she pees or poops praise generously and use a very high value treat. The high value treat will help reinforce the behaviour as well as keep her mouth briefly occupied while you pick up the poop if she did one. You may be able to extinguish the poop eating if she’s no longer able to practice it, tho some dogs will poop eat regardless, especially as puppies. All my dogs did some of the time as puppies. It’s gross but it’s a normal, common thing in their world. Anyway, when you take her outside to pee/poop, take her to the exact same spot every time and take a used pee pad with you to place on the grass. Praise and treat when she goes. Over time she’ll get it. Some pups get it very quickly, others take ages. But they get there in the end.

Most commercially prepared dog foods are full of carbs and the average pet dog can develop the same health issues we humans do. I can’t afford to fully raw feed my dogs anymore, I now partly raw feed and partly grain-free kibble feed. There’s a lot of hype about grain free being better than the cheaper kibbles but it’s still full of carbs, it just doesn’t use some of the carb sources some dogs find very hard to digest and/or have food allergy reactions to. With young puppies tho I rely a lot on feeding a good quality puppy kibble, to make sure every nutrient box is ticked. It’s possible to raw feed or make homemade food that ticks every box but feeding kibble is way easier lol.

Young puppies poop a lot because their digestive systems are immature. They also don’t have the nerve/muscle development to hold their poop, tho many instinctually hold for much longer when crated. But during the day its often food goes in, poop comes out. Human babies also poop often.

Regarding keto and carnivore, some people feed their dog keto fat/protein ratios, especially in response to certain health problems, and many raw feed, and the dogs do great. Dogs are opportunistic feeders so if there is ripe fruit on the ground that fell from the tree chances are a dog will eat some if they like the taste, and dogs in the wild eat all sorts of things when animal food is scarce. But do dogs need regular fruits and veg? I’m not convinced. They definitely don’t need grains and rice and lentils and potatoes and all the other carby ingredients found in most kibbles tho.

You’ve mentioned Annie is a very high energy pup. Is she having regular rest and sleep times during the day, or is she go go go? If it’s the latter, I’d encourage you to teach her to have chill times by crating her with something enjoyable to chew on and mostly covering the crate with a blanket. Some dogs never learn to turn off and it becomes a permanent behaviour which can be rough on a lot of dog parents. Young puppies also need a lot of sleep and crating her might help her get enough if she doesn’t already nap a lot during the day.

Anyway, I’ll stop burbling :rofl: I love dogs! (incase that’s not obvious)

(Denise) #8

Hi Megan I’m ready for bed just crawled in Annie’s next to me and her crate with a blanket I relate to so much you said and I’m doing so much that you shared that it really encouraged me but I am so tired tonight and I really want to write way more so I’ll do that in the morning at my first break when I put Annie back in her crate after we’ve been up a couple hours and yes she does get a regular nap because I read about how much puppies need anyway lots to tell you lots to share with you and want to thank you so much for the information I enjoyed reading every word thanks Megan it’s very nice to meet you as well Denise and Annie


I love reading this thread. Sometimes it’s nice to be able to chat about things like a new puppy and training but with our Keto friends. It’s encouraging that we can help each other in other ways too. It doesn’t always have to be about our diets or health. :blush:

It will be fun to watch you progress with your puppy over the next few months. They are so precious.

(Megan) #10

Yea some people go overboard with treating every little thing. I use treats at the beginning stages of training a new behaviour, then largely phase them out and only intermittently reinforce the behaviour with treats once it’s learnt (which is actually a lot more powerful than constantly reinforcing with treats). I have one exception and that’s the recall. My girls always get a nice fuss made of them and some treats for coming when called, whether it’s at home or when we’re out. I sometimes give them jackpot rewards - lots of treats - but fed one at a time with a fair bit of happy fuss. If you give a dog a handful of yummies in one go it pretty much has the same value as giving them one treat - this is one of many areas dogs are different from humans.

Or in Annie’s case you can manage the situation so she can’t practice the behaviour and see if it stops or eases off to very infrequent when she gets a bit older. I don’t kid glove my dogs but I’m also careful about doing things, in the name of training, that the dog experiences negatively. Some dogs, like some humans, are not emotionally robust and don’t handle some or any adversives well. Their world will be full enough of them some days without us adding in a pile more. I guess, over the years, I’ve become a big fan of management when it comes to my dogs. Sometimes prevention really is better than cure.

(Denise) #11

Got up with zero back-ache, I was so relieved after 3 days, then annie ramped up plus I made the mistake of tackling the potty pad (I spent a ton of money on) are soaking through so after every pee I have to check underneath then mop the floor. Luckily I finally figured out a better place on the bare floor to place them, and she did catch on right away. She’s such a good little thing, and smart.

My back-ache returned (never had any back problems, ever) now I am scared about moving, although the movers will carry and transport everything. What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger? I sure hope so. I finally remembered just because I’m not lifting, I still need to bend my knees, squat, instead of bend over. Learning the hard way here.

She is all settled after scolding her with firm words, but mostly she thinks it’s a game. She does rest, and so I get to as well. She’ll fall asleep under my desk, and sometimes she’ll go to her crate. We’ve been up since 4 and it’s 5:10 now so hard to believe I even lasted an hour. I have a rolled up “quick ad” all I have to do is point it at her and she lays down, backs off.

I could be handling everything better if it weren’t for my back hurting, but it subsided when I sit, just putting weight on when walking causes me to limp. I am hoping it’s a muscle though, like any other that is getting worked for the first time, lately anyway. I can’t do my workout at all, I don’t dare. I’m 71, don’t know if anyone can relate but this was a lot bigger deal than when I got my last puppy years ago. I want to kick myself but it hurts too much:joy:

I appreciate the replies, not a lot of time to be on here but I’ll try to get back to anyone who writes. I forgot to ask Megan where to get that “thing” that would keep her from tripping me etc.? Denise & Annie( alias landshark)

(Denise) #12

I know there is no place for chit chat here, but I feel it’s so nice as well to get to know folks and share some things a little more than just strictly Keto. I can see how things could really get out of hand though, and change the forum. If anyone wants to send personal messages I’m up for that too. I’m not sure but I think you can have more than 2 participants, I’ll look to see. Denise PS Yes, we can chat, and have more than one person.

Should have put more in the title of this thread towards training a puppy but that doesn’t really go with “food”. I like the idea @MeganNZ about feeding Annie kibble because yes, it is easier on me. Are there anymore recommends for kibble, dry food for her as I need to get better than this one, I think. She’s not eating a full cup a day as I measure out over a cup, and feed it 3 to 4 times. We have been in bed at 8 then up at 4, although I don’t fall asleep until 9 ish after reading a bit.

I pull her kibble which there’s always some left, as the breeder told me to do that. I’ve read about dogs fasting as well so I think it’s ok?? Feedback welcome. Here’s what I am feeding her now except I payed way less at Walmart thank goodness. I’ve been looking at Blue Buffalo Puppy, more expensive but need to get something soon as I will of course transition her over. She was on one called Diamond but the lady didn’t give me much, and I couldn’t get it shipped in time before what I had ran out, so I transitioned her to the Natures Recipe, she did excellent. I was worried as I could only do a weeks of transitioning:

Nature’s Recipe Puppy


Nature’s Recipe is a good one if she is happy with it. So are Science Diet puppy formulations. Our dog wouldn’t stick with any food for very long at all and we were constantly trying a different one. It was really hard. If she would have been happy with Nature’s Recipe we would have stuck with that one.

Maybe this forum needs a category called “The Back Porch” or “Around The Water Cooler” or something like that? All the other forums I’m a member of (like our swimming pool forum, or gardening forum,) have categories to chit chat off forum topics. In the meantime we will just support each other wherever we find a cool discussion. :blush:

(Denise) #14

Glad to hear you say that, and although I knew NR was Grain Free, which I hear is good, I had forgotten until I went and looked at ingredients. Yes, she likes it! I’m glad I don’t have to transition her again. The only thing that got me started on this was all the poop but it’s in good shape :wink: and I am catching her well before she gets the chance to eat any of it :nauseated_face::face_vomiting:

Thanks for the info, Denise

(Bob M) #15

Our pup is over 2 now, and we still crate her. Both at night and if we go out for any length of time. She often goes in her crate anyway.

Our dog will periodically “fast” by not eating breakfast, and sometimes not eating when she’s stressed. We took her on a short vacation with us, and she went to basically one meal a day (from two), I think because we upended her. She doesn’t know it’s a vacation, and there’s no way for us to tell her.

Ours will eat deer poop and goose poop if she finds these. She’s also eating certain grasses right now. But the idea that she needs to eat grains – which I avoid eating myself – is ludicrous.

(Denise) #16

Hi Megan, this was truly a good read, and I was awake enough to take it all in. You are very well schooled on caring for dogs. I’ve read some of what you said in other articles, or seen on videos. I need to find out where to get that “flirt” thing because my newspaper is crumbling as Annie, bless her heart, has got hold of it and tore it up pretty good, lol! She does think everything is a game, but I’m learning that ignore thing, and not making eye-contact. That seems to be a big “invite” for her to start jumping, biting, wanting to play.

That’s really the only thing I’d like to focus on for now as I have the timing on her poops, and see she goes twice, after eating, so I just sit and watch, even out of the corner of my eye so I catch her pooping, then I say good girl and grab a teenie bit of a puperonie. Hope those are ok, but I just pinch a teenie bit off for her as reward, plus really petting and saying good girl :slight_smile:

I don’t yell at all, and try to be stern with my no’s or down’s. When I say it right, she sits/lays and looks at me then gets her one of her toys. Almost like she’s thinking ok, she’s not going to play with me so I’ll get a toy :heart:
She’s the most precious thing I have in my life. All I want is to learn how to train her the best ways.

(Denise) #17

I had forgotten the grain-thing, but luckily, I will stick with the Nature’s Recipe, grain free, for now. She is thriving on it, and I don’t think I can trim down her poop with anything else, not that I can afford right now. Things are tight right now because of a move to inland Oregon, and a new apartment for Annie and I.

I’ve been extra stressed out because I am hoping to have her totally housebroke by the time we move, but if not, we have a nice balcony where I can put her potty pads until she is used to that, then move her outside like @MeganNZ suggested by taking a potty pad (used, a little :wink: ) outside with us. I’ve had her out a few times and each time she is better on the leash, although I do not know the proper training for that. I’ll use the harness and leash combo though as she is just too active and I don’t want to hurt her in any way, or make her hate walks :slight_smile:

PS you are a good pet-owner, and yes, Annie has a nice, large crate, that I cover with a blanket as she will go to sleep when it’s dark in her crate. One end is not covered so she gets plenty of air. I try to think of everything, and she is doing really good, so smart :slight_smile: and growing too fast it seems, but that’s good in ways and I’ll never forget her puppy-hood :slight_smile:


Something we have done with all our puppies that worked beautifully training them to pee outside:

Hang a bell on a long string from your doorknob. I got a 2-pk of brass bells medium size on Amazon. Throughout the day you proactively take her outside but first bump her nose on the bell then praise her with gushing love “you rang the bell to go potty!” Then, outside you just repeat “go potty, go potty” in a happy encouraging voice. At first they just stare at you or sniff around but you keep this up. Then when she actually does pee or poo you celebrate with praise and a treat. Do this at least 6x a day minimum whether or not you think she has to pee. Try to get her before she goes on the pad though. With our current dog sometimes I would catch her going poo on the pad and lift her and the poo up, bump her nose on the bell as I said “go potty outside” in a fun voice, took her outside and dumped poo on the grass and then celebrated that she went poo poo outside. She made the connection quickly. Always use “potty” with the bell and when outside.

Our first dog we did this with was trained in 48 hours and rang the bell to go outside on her own from then on. She was brilliant. Our second took about two weeks of this several times a day and decided the bell was to get a treat, but she figured it out that she had to pee first. Our current dog took about a week but started ringing the bell with her nose by the second day, and she also tries to fool us just to get a treat. :rofl: She had to transition from a potty pad while we did this but she was really into the excitement of it all. I love the bell method.

So we always hear the bell whenever any of our dogs want out, even middle of the night! We actually are trained humans because if one of us accidentally hits it the other comes mindlessly from the other room to let the dog out. :rofl::rofl:

(Denise) #19

I got to say I hope I never get woke up by the ringing of a belt in the middle of the night to go out and go potty that was funny that’s a great story and a great idea I wonder if they still have those little two packs of brass bells I’ll take a look thank you juju


These are the ones I got.

And they don’t often ring it in the middle of the night. Only our current dog does that but it’s because her owner (our older son) isn’t making sure she goes before bed. I wouldn’t worry. The pros greatly outweigh the cons.