"Low-Carb Community Is Its Own Worst Enemy"


(Bob M) #42

But you can’t advocate for cows when you have to kill skunks, groundhogs, and other furry creatures to grow your monocrop. It does not logically make sense.

(hottie turned hag) #43

No it doesn’t in the grander scale, that’s true.

The vegans I’m thinking of are the sort who cannot bear being party to the suffering of factory farmed animals, even as removed as the consumer is from that. It’s not logical really. But I get it and can relate. I have to massively compartmentalize to be able to eat factory farmed products. The eco motivated ones are more about “save the planet” not “I can’t be party to the suffering”.

(Take time to smell the bacon) #44

Peter Ballerstedt, the ruminant agronomist, agrees with you. His big point is along the lines of what Alan Savory started pointing out, quite a while ago, that having animals on the land is better for the environment than factory farming. The ruminants and the grasses evolved together, after all, and ruminants can use agricultural land that is unsuitable for growing crops. Also, if you let cropland lie fallow and pasture ruminants on it, they will replenish the soil that the crops have depleted, with no need to make fertilizer from petroleum, nor any need to waste petroleum shipping it across the nation.

(Failed) #45

Thank you for sharing that, Paul. It was so moving.

(Cecile Seth) #46

Mine too.

(Cecile Seth) #47

Agreed. Literature has 16 cases of improving schizophrenia with a ketogenic diet. The one counter example probably wasn’t in ketosis. Looks like bipolar and many other mental-metabolic conditions as well.

(Edith) #48

I disagree. Animals and plants together can heal the planet. We need each other.

(PJ) #49

This old ad, IMO, says everything. When those bozos want to apologize for the mass planet-sized murder and destruction they’ve been pushing for a buck for the last 50 years AND STILL – because the time for “we didn’t know better” is long past – I might start caring what any of them have to say.

This image is linked from Tom Naughton’s Fat Head blog as the original page is no longer online.

This info is STILL in textbooks. I worked for a major textbook corp for 14 years, until last year. The people who will be doctors, nurses and nutritionists in 5-10 years are STILL being taught this crap.


THIS. Speaking as a medical professional of over 20 years experience, my mind was absolutely blown when I was diagnosed with diabetes and stumbled into low carb. You mean everything I was ever taught about diabetes and diet was WRONG??? Yes it was. and what a revelation. I think physicians in general consider themselves well educated and intelligent and this (keto) is a challenge to that by way of killing the dogma associated with heart disease, HTN, diabetes and for a lot of them, thats hard to take. And then daily I see news articles about the latest pill they are developing that can keep the body from making extra glucose or what have you…really? We dont need a pill, there is a diet for that. But I would bet my life a physician would rather prescribe the pill than the diet because that is what they have been conditioned to do.

(Edith) #51

I was reading a discussion on Amazon (of all places) for a book review. I don’t remember what the book was, but there was a supposed medical doctor discussing how frustrated he had gotten over the years, because most of his patients wanted a pill and didn’t want to do the work it took to change their habits

(Take time to smell the bacon) #52

You have to understand that eating bacon and steak is difficult, and is therefore unsustainable over the long term. It’s so much more effective to take a pill, which lacks those undesirable side effects of enjoyment and delicious taste.

(Edith) #53

WE know that, but I’m sure you have heard the same things I’ve heard when mentioning low carb or keto to people: “Oh, I could never give up ______!” Just fill in the blank.

(Todd Allen) #54

That’s a convenient excuse for a medical system that only wants to spend 10 minutes per patient and wastes most of that doing things like taking weight and blood pressure which patients can do better on their own.

(Failed) #55

Someone said to me the other day, “I would rather die than give up my pasta.” I said, “And you will!” But she wasn’t impressed.

I get so sad and frustrated, but then I remind myself I had the same attitude only a few months ago.

(Take time to smell the bacon) #56

I have to admit that life without glazed doughnuts is not all it’s cracked up to be. On the other hand, bacon is some pretty decent compensation. :bacon::bacon:

(Tom Seest) #57

Anything else is simply fiat currency. Bacon is real money.

(PJ) #58

I understand that. But bear in mind that the recommendations for habits usually amounts to eating low calories, and low fat, and low salt, and the body chafes at these terribly – giving advice that requires fighting millions of years of evolution is ridiculous advice.

Worse, even when people knuckle-down and DO follow it, this does NOT lead to the daydream results – we know this, or most of us would have never needed lowcarb – and then the patients are basically expected to have been LYING and not really following the directives, because surely in the world of medical unicorns and rainbows, if you had just eaten by the food pyramid you’d look like a fitness model.

So when doctors say people just don’t want to do the work, sometimes it’s true. But most the time it’s because the advice for the work is BAD ADVICE. And it’s unworkable and dangerous long term, it’s barely workable short term, and when it is workable short term it doesn’t get the expected results so nobody believes it was done. What’s the point? If the only advice doesn’t work, a pill sounds like the next option.

I might add that I’ve had a ton of doctors (not my own, but those I knew in other venues) tell me that they were taught in medical school not even to bother bringing up low-carb as an alternative because it was impossible to be compliant with and would be cruel to force on children and so on. Actually even in the documentary (‘Fat’) I just watched recently, the mom was saying how her pediatric diabetes specialist not only told her this, that it was akin to child abuse, but suggested she must have a psychological problem, that after her kid was unable to be helped by six diff doctors and had constant seizures, that her husband (an orthopedic surgeon) found info on the keto diet and they put the kid on it and it WORKED for him. And that was the medical response, that she should have to see a psychiatrist because she removed the sugar/starch from her kid’s diet to see if it would save him. FFS.

(hottie turned hag) #59

This happens commonly.

I’ve spoken on here of my experience from the medical side with that sort of thing (I work in a med sci field).

I can cite my experience from the other side as a parent of a kid with a chronic illness, too.

Short version: when she was dx with Crohn’s at age 10, her pedi GI and I agreed she needed NG feeds LONGTERM as in months if not years, as she was just commencing puberty at onset and had already regressed in that aspect from malnutrition/disease process. We wanted to avoid a compromised nutritional status so puberty would progress normally not to mention all the other reasons a child of that age needs to maintain nutritional status.

Not only was this a source of amazement and incredulity amongst the many many med professionals she saw in the ensuing 8 years she used an NG (she inserted it HERSELF at night and removed in the a.m.), their amazement was due to the fact she/I would COMPLY with such, the MOTHERS I encountered at summer camp (for kids with Crohn’s) and on a Mother’s forum were equally astounded/thought it was tantamount to abuse/adamantly against such a thing.

They’d rather dose with drugs, hands down, no question, even though their kids were wraithlike waifs.

Her GI was a big proponent of tube feeds for Crohn’s cases but said his two partners hardly ever offered it to pts as an option due to noncompliance, despite agreeing with its efficacy.

(PJ) #60

My mind boggles.

I had a high school friend I saw years after school. She had a hearing impairment (not realized until college, she could hear but not understand well, so she mostly just felt stupid saying, “Huh?” to everyone all her life). She had a degree in library and information science, and worked with kids who were hearing impaired. She told me that well over half the parents/families would not even bother learning sign language. Now there’s a tiny % of people who truly believe in not doing that (for lip reading being the only language they have – so, a one-way language), which I profoundly disagree with, but to each their own. But most of them just wouldn’t bother.

I just don’t get that. Maybe it’s the same thing as the guy who told me, about his wife’s diabetes, that her eating well was “her own problem” he wouldn’t even try to help with. Of course she lost foot, leg, another foot, went blind, then died, leaving him three small children. But it was “her” problem. I guess all those deaf kids, it was just “their” problem they couldn’t hear. Like all the parents who apparently will not even bother to help the kids with severe digestive issues get enough nutrients to help their body and brain develop properly.

Some people. Go figure.

(Wendy) #61

Wow, that was never discussed with me either though perhaps my son’s malnutrition was not as severe. He’s had many different treatments including IV steroids at times. He’s really having a hard time with his Crohns (He’s just turned 28) and I’d do anything for him to try Keto to see if it will help. I’m not sure if the tube feeding would be helpful at this point.
How is your daughter doing and does she subscribe to keto at this point of her life?