"Low-Carb Community Is Its Own Worst Enemy"

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(Cecile Seth) #1

“[The Low-Carb Community Is Its Own Worst Enemy]”(https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/916329)

This article is targeted at medical professionals and concludes

Blockquote "Less Hyperbole, More Collaborations

If the low-carb community wants to make inroads into the medical community as a whole, I have two recommendations for them. First, the community must do more to call out its own bad actors. As it stands now, at least online, the low-carb community is a self-congratulatory, reinforcing, at times vicious echo chamber. Doing more to police its own members’ hyperbole and ugliness would allow for thoughtful discussions and collaborations.

Second, the community should be expressly championing low-carb diets as just one of many options for those seeking weight loss or other diet-related health benefits, not the sole option. Physicians, generally speaking, are quite comfortable with multiple treatment modalities, and diet should be no different — especially because one person’s best diet can be another person’s worst."

(PJ) #2

There is likely not a subject-field existing where the above could not be said about it.

But it sure is some irony when the uber-massive, totalitarian-style world-lock-on-power community is not mentioned for egregious degrees of this thing…

…while the one comparatively tiny, upstart group of people with a different idea are.

Oh and you’re not supposed to have a different idea. By excluding the idea that is killing half the planet from your list of recommendations, you’re being unreasonable.

:roll_eyes: :rofl:

(Tom Seest) #3

The same thing could be said about promoters of other dietary positions like Vegan, Vegetarian, and Mediterranean. There are always a few people that the peers will think of as wackos.

In all honesty though, I don’t think it matters. People will continue to have success, and Doctors will either get on board with it and support it, or not.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #4

One of the things that really impressed me, when I was first learning about this way of eating, was the scientific rigour of the presentations I watched. All the references to scientific studies helped convince me that this was not some wacky fringe diet, but a solidly documented way of eating. I haven’t found the same to be true on the vegetarian/vegan side of the discussion, though perhaps I simply haven’t encountered their scientists. But I did come across one apparently scientific doctor who was trying to convince his audience that eating meat caused diabetes. Even at the time, I knew that wasn’t true, so I didn’t continue watching to see whether he had any valid points in with the misinformation.

ETA: Take a look at the comments to that article. The rational ones are all coming from the low-carb side, the judgemental crazies are all in favour of the SAD. And they are all medical professionals, no less!

(Andi loves space, bacon and fasting. ) #5

I actually laughed out loud when I read this.

Oh … I just became one of the “bad actors” they were talking about. Oops!! Oh well, I’ll take my bad acting to the scale and look at my positive results!!

(bulkbiker) #6

Dr Tro made some interesting comments on twitter after Yoni allegedly defamed him… being in the UK I can’t see the article (thankfully).

But Yoni has form …

(Bob M) #7

Egad: “The meat, dairy and processed food industries are alive and well – and using the same tactics the Tobacco companies used to promote their toxins.” This from the comments.

I can read the comments, but not the article.

(Andi loves space, bacon and fasting. ) #8

Having spent a little bit of time mulling this over in my head, I am struck by the absurdity of this article, written by an MD and published on a medical website, having any concern whatsoever in the behavior of a community. Shouldn’t this doctor and this publication be concerned with only with research and evidence? Not forums where people like ourselves celebrate our successes with this WOE?

Show me the science, Dr Freedhoff, show us that you earned your MD by looking at data, not the opinions of non-doctors like myself.

('Jackie P') #9

My thoughts exactly! Also I have watched early, and latter presentations by Jason Fung, Zoe Harcombe, Aseem Malhotra, Gary Fettke, Tim Noakes et al. I have never seen them agitated, aggressive or anything other than, thoughtful, intelligent, concerned with evidence and research and above all calm! I don’t know how they stay so calmly focused after all these years! Who could ever have watched a presentation by the gentle Dr Eric Westman, who actually does on occasion talk about other weight loss methods, and considered him a fanatic?
Obviously emotions can run high on a forum like this. Many of us are hopping mad at what we have discovered. We, many of us, are victims not scientists!

(Andi loves space, bacon and fasting. ) #10

Heartbroken first, hopping mad second.

(Bob M) #11

I’ll do this if they do it. If they admit that Pritikin, Willett, et al., are all pushing an agenda that’s unrelated to actual science, then I’ll call out the “bad actors” (though I’m not sure who those might be). Can they not admit they were wrong about saturated fat and dietary cholesterol? No? Then why should be not call them out for this?

(Bunny) #12

I second the motion, that hits right at the core of the problem!

You can play with numbers, you can play with the content and amount of food eaten and ignore the initial and individual body compositions and chemistries?

We want to believe we can be sedentary (up to a point) and burn body fat or maintain a certain percentage of body fat and eat highly refined carbohydrate diets, high fat diets, low fat diets, high protein diets and the same time ignore the amount of muscle mass each individual has in relation to body fat if you believe you can fool Mother Nature with human pseudoscience?

(Cecile Seth) #14

It isn’t a paywall. You just have to cough up an email address to register. Hopefully Medscape won’t be spamming me!

(Susan) #15

I have junk emails I use for things like that, ones I never log in to or use, just for that… =).

(Cecile Seth) #16

I’d also seen those comments by Dr. Tro and was wondering what (and who) had gotten him so steamed.

It seems like LCHF is simultaneously gaining traction and encountering increased resistance. The vitriol of diet wars still surprises me.

I’d like to see us strive to have more physicians (and the USDA) recognize LCHF as a valid option and one of

“multiple treatment modalities.”

There are 12% of Americans whose metabolisms aren’t deranged, yet.

(Kirk Wolak) #17

Oh this is a PsyOp if I ever saw one…

By asking us to admit OTHER diets work (equally well, is implied, BTW)… They can use that against us as saying those are less extreme and easier to stick with.

What they are missing: I have NEVER EVER EVER had success like this. My story is quite long, but food allergies and inflammation and migraines… All mostly gone (unless I eat something I should not have). Who knew? (Turns out, many people, for centuries, LOL).

Any diet CAN work. But you give me the patient, and I can CONSTRUCT a diet that will fail. Heck I can gain 8-10lbs OVERNIGHT just by eating something I react to.

(Edith) #18

I think the word “scientists” in this quote should have been in quotes. Their methods of experimenting and reaching their conclusions don’t follow what I would consider to be the true scientific method.

(Bob M) #19

No kidding. If E=MC^2 fails once, it fails. Meanwhile, the low fat diet, cholesterol hypothesis, you name it, can fail over and over and over again…and they keep going. Why?

(Andi loves space, bacon and fasting. ) #20

Exactly. If you’ve spent the last 2 decades watching your patients fail to lose weight from your advice to eat less/move more, and you can’t draw the conclusion that the methodology fails patients, then you are no scientist.

It kills me that anyone claims this WOE is “extreme” or “hard to stick with”. This is so much easier than all of the times I’ve tracked calories in the past (and failed miserably doing so).

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #21

Dr. Berry says he used to blame his patients for not adhering correctly to his instructions, until he got fat enough to diet himself, and then he realized that it was his instructions that were wrong, not his patients, because he knew he was following them properly. I believe the same thing happened to Robert Atkins, as well.