(Tim Cee) #1

Is there an advantage? Edit: is a a low bmr better?

(Robin) #2

an advantage to knowing yours? Maybe. When I first began my weight loss journey, the first thing I wanted to know was how many calories I would need to eat to maintain my GOAL weight. That number became my guide.

The longer I am on plan (practically on auto-pilot) the less interested I am in stuff like that. I know my groove and how to stay in it. But when we are new, any tool can be helpful. (Except the evil scales.) :vulcan_salute:

(Tim Cee) #3

I didn’t ask that very well. I’m thinking not so much about knowing my BMR but whether I should be deliberately lowering it. There’s been mention of metabolism rate playing a role in losing unhealthy fat faster, but also wearing the body out faster. I’ve heard tell that lab animals live longer on diets that force the metabolism to adjust down. There’s also a correlation between the typical life expectancy of an animal and the typical metabolism of individuals in the species. So I am wondering if there are solid scientific reasons why we should deliberately use diet to move the metabolism up or down on a long term/lifestyle scale of time. One thing that comes to mind is one might be able to re-allocate funds from food to fishing gear.

(Robin) #4

Aha! I see. Good question. This calls for @PaulL, or any of the other science dudes. I just wait for ya’ll to figure this ■■■■ out, report back with your decision and action steps, and I’ll act accordingly.


I have seen a few studies that showed a positive correlation to eating fewer calories and living longer. Hard to do trials with this though, so I was pretty skeptical. There were also studies that posited greater activation of mtor fueled growth (cancer, disease, etc) and the key to longevity is to keep mtor low as much as possible.

(Tim Cee) #6

So low metabolism means more mtor?


Not in real life, the longevity crowd (which I consider myself part of minus this) is a fan because technically you’ll live longer/age slower. But in real life it’s all negative. Can’t eat as much, way easier to gain fat, sometimes energy issues and being cold all the time, lowered body temp etc.

I’d say low BMR is always bad. Technically RMR, your BMR can’t slow down or you’d start to die.

(Bob M) #8

You don’t want to get into mtor, as then you’ll get really confused. The problem with mtor is that you need it if you want to grow things like muscles. You WANT higher mtor. (Same with insulin.)

The trick is to have mtor (or insulin) so it’s dosed intermittently. Such as eating a low carbohydrate diet with one to a few meals a day. See this for instance:

(I’m not convinced, as indicated by this article, that carbs can’t help with muscle building, at least from a glycogen replacement scenario and possibly recovery. Currently testing eating about 45 grams of white rice after my body weight training. Haven’t done it long enough yet to see a difference.)

(Take time to smell the bacon) #9

The picture with mTOR is very complicated, and I don’t think its as simple as “mTOR good” or “mTOR bad.” There is a video of a lecture by Ron Rosedale, that he gave at some LCDU event years ago, in which he argued that we should eat no more than 0.6 g of protein / kg of lean body mass / day, on the grounds that any more than that would stir up mTOR and shorten our lives. But more recent research has shown that it’s not nearly as simple as that.

Think of it like autophagy. In many circumstances it’s a good thing, but not when we’ve been fasting and it starts to break down muscle tissue that we need. Context is all.

The problem with longevity research, in my view, is that it has no clear goal. Mere life extension is meaningless, if the added years are painful and miserable. I’m more interested, myself, in extending healthspan, so that I can be happy and active right up until the moment I keel over. And if I die in my eighties instead of my hundred-twenties, well, that’s fine by me. An extra forty years of misery would not be worth it.

(Tim Cee) #10

I’m thinking the answer for me for now is to eat a comfortable amount of healthy food and maintain a basic level of fitness and not even think about my metabolic rate comparatively—stay healthy and enjoy the journey.


I have seen studies where mtor and insulin have been demonized for being anabolic, but then read studies that seemed to demonstrate higher muscle mass will help with longevity and quality of life.

I think periodicity is key as you’ve pointed out, and in my opinion building muscle is beneficial in longevity and quality of life.


I think that is a reasonable view. Eat more to keep your RMR up, and add in activity when your body tells you.

Eat to satiety. Add in some low intensity activity like walking. Enjoy the journey.

(Bob M) #13

I agree, Paul.

I was following one of those “life extension” people on Twitter. I took some of what they recommended. But I got side effects I did not like. (I tend to get side effects for a lot of things.) Even if the item was “good” from a life extension standpoint, if it’s giving side effects that are bad, do I want to live longer while feeling worse? I don’t think I do.

(Denise) #14

That’s Basic Metabolic Rate right? Is that the amount of calories it would take to keep you alive if you were in a Coma? If I remember right, that’s what I learned on a website for calorie counting, and if that’s the same, then I believe I have stayed as healthy as I am by knowing that number. I also calculated, years ago, something called TDEE which I am betting you know about as well. Total Daily Energy Expenditure, and that’s what I still eat in calories, or very close to, every day. But now Keto :wink:

I can’t express how important I believe this calculation is for me, and I do recommend to friends that I see eating like birds to lose fat. I do enjoy eating foods, don’t get me wrong, but I mainly think of fueling my body more so now, and with the right foods for me. I still weigh some things like when I cut up a roast to eat etc. Just to not over-eat because I’ll eat what’s on my plate. A few times I really listened to my body, for when it’s full though, as I’d over-eatin before and it “don’t” feel good as many here know :frowning_face::nauseated_face:

Thanks for your post, very, good reminder :wink:

(Denise) #15

You said this very well Paul, I’m going to remember this “do I want to live longer while feeling worse”?? My answer is no as well :wink:

Oops, sorry @ctviggen Bob M. I was quoting your reply :wink:

(Denise) #16

This is excellent @PaulL, I am going to look up some of the terms and initials, but the basic info I understand and agree with 100%. Losing lean, muscle mass has always been one of my main reasons for both building muscle (or atleast toning up) and eating right. I was still on the wrong track in my 40s (late 60s now) as far as too, many carbs (how I got here with T2) but I feel way better just knowing I could have more of a healthy future now, than I had.

I don’t want to live forever, I want to feel as good as possible today!!

(Take time to smell the bacon) #17

“MTOR” is a kinase that forms part of a couple of protein complexes that regulate a number of important cellular processes. The name is short for “mammalian [or mechanistic] target of rapamycin.” Rapamycin is a drug with antibiotic, antifungal, and immunosuppressant properties discovered on Rapa Nui (also known as Easter Island).

Not much was originally known about rapamycin and its effects. Its antifungal properties were the first to be discovered, but it was first approved for use in the U.S. as an immunosuppressant. The kinase known as mTOR was discovered in the process of trying to elucidate exactly how rapamycin works in the body, and the various purposes of mTOR in the body were discovered as a result of that. (As you might suppose, the name “mTOR” basically meant, originally, “well, whatever it is and does, it’s affected by rapamycin.”)

“MTOR” (with an uppercase ‘m’) is also the name of a gene complex that regulates the production of mTOR (FK506-binding protein 12-rapamycin-associated protein 1, or FRAP1).

(Don’t be impressed; I cribbed all this from teh Interwebz.)

(Denise) #18

I “tried” to read and understand this at Pub-med Paul, and I didn’t do very well at it. I’m still trying to find out if it’s a good thing or a bad thing, lol!! :face_with_monocle:

(Bob M) #19

A lot of these “life extension” people recommend taking this.

(Denise) #20

That’s my focus, more so atleast, Tim. Although, I’m curious to find out more about IR which I finally get a test for that. I need to call the clinic soon and see if my Doc called in for me to have the labs :wink: I want to know as much as I can about what exactly is going on in my body. Doctors I am able to see don’t do much more than prescribe drugs, but, I am blessed to have an MD that is watching me do Keto instead of Metformin, and he is open, and willing to help me wherever he can.

To be super honest, me losing 22 lbs (which I didn’t think that was so much, but it was what was surrounding my organs as well) was a side bonus, it just happened when I stuck to low-carb, high fats, proteins. I just eat under 30 ish. Almost a year now and all I basically do for exercise is walking, but I’ve done that for about almost 30 years now. But I need a more muscle-resistance work as well. I bought a rowing machine that is wonderful if I’ll get on it :wink: I can’t seem to get hooked on that, or weight-training but it’s not too late, maybe today!! :grin: I really like the body-weight exercise, like squats, or other things I can without equipment, and indoors when it’s pouring rain :wink: