Lets share our cholesterol numbers

#1

In the interest of understanding how LDL and cholesterol in general might be affected by a ketogenic, particularly carnivore WOE, I would like to start a thread where we can share our cholesterol numbers, if any of us happen to have them to hand of course, pre and post keto/carni.

I’ll go first, here are mine: (from October 2022, pre keto and carni, on a HC/LF diet)

Serum cholesterol 3.59 mmol/L
Serum triglycerides 0.93 mmol/L
Serum HDL cholesterol level 1.8 mmol/L
Serum LDL cholesterol 1.37 mmol/L

Se non HDL cholesterol level 1.79
Serum cholesterol/HDL ratio 2

I will be having my lipids tested again 6 months to a year from now following carnivore, and will naturally share that result too.

I have spent quite a lot of time lately on the Dave Feldman’s blog, the cholesterol code, and am really fascinated by Dave Feldman’s and Siobhan Huggin’s work and experimentation in manipulating their lipids, showing it can be done.

(Bob M) #2

We should include a conversion site, so we can convert between those units and the US units.

(Allie) #3

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That’s last time I got checked, been a couple of years if not longer…

#4

Hi Bob, yes, that’s a good idea.

(Bob M) #5

Here’s one:

(Thought I’d be helpful, rather than complaining.)

Your HDL was 1.8 mmol/L, which comes out to be about 70 mg/dL, which is good.

#6

Hi Allie, did you have your numbers tested following a ketogenic WOE, or were these numbers taken before you started to eat ketogenically?

(Allie) #7

I’ve been keto since May 2015, this was August 2020.

#8

Hi Allie, it does seem from your numbers you could be an LMHR? Are you familiar with Dave Feldman’s and Siobhan Huggins’ work? On their blog, the cholesterol code there is very good information that Dave Feldman offers regarding both LMHR (being one himself) and cholesterol. There is a video (zoom presentation) where Feldman talks about how he was able to manipulate his lipids results, if you haven’t watched it I think you’d find it interesting. Sorry I can’t post any links at the moment as I’m typing on my phone, but when I can access a computer I will.

(Bob M) #9

Not the highest I’ve seen, but up there:

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I think Dr. (Mrs.) Unwin had the highest LDL I’ve seen. Something like 11 if I remember correctly.

I assume your general practitioner freaks out?

(Allie) #10

This was a private test I had to pay for, they freaked out and told me to see my doctor. I ignored them. Even if I wanted to see my doctor, it’s been impossible for years…

(Allie) #11

I’m aware of it but tbh don’t have enough interest, or time, to research it all. My go to is this forum as I know there are some extremely knowledgable people here.

(Bob M) #12

Well, given what I (think I) know about cholesterol, my guess is you’ll live a long life with few colds or viruses. You’ll one of those folks still driving at 90+ (90+ = age, not speed; though I was watching a show about cars and they had an 80+ year old driver recreate something he did many years earlier, and that guy was hauling butt! He was going so fast… I think he took an old Porsche and raced it against a new one, with a young driver, and almost won!).

#13

Yes, I agree with this Bob, given what I now (think I) know too. As I need to do more research. But I recently read a study showing that people with high LDL live as long or longer than people with low LDL, and Dave Feldman often mentions how, when lowering LDL (with statins) all cause mortality goes up, although I’m not sure if that couldn’t also be the detrimental effects of the statins. But low LDL can lead to declining cognitive function, from what I’ve read, and other health issues.

Allie, my LDL was low (when last checked) but I’ve had a whole host of health complaints (the cause of which I believe now was systemic inflammation), so my low LDL level was/is no indication (necessarily) of good health.

I’ll post a few links to Dave Feldman’s work and presentations later, when I have access to a computer. And also a link to one of Siobhan Huggins’ presentations.

(Bob M) #14

It’s a very difficult analysis. What is probably good is rising HDL and lowering trigs. After that, it’s murky.

For instance, I have relatively low LDL. But I’m also somewhat muscular, and muscular people (even leans ones) tend not to be LMHRs and instead have lower cholesterol. Dave Feldman has a theory about this, but I’m not sure the tests have been done one way or the other.

And I also have “low” total cholesterol, which is a marker that’s bad generally (let’s ignore the people who think LDL should be zero).

I’ve always had low cholesterol, though. By “low”, I mean easily under 200 and most times near 150. But with keto, my HDL has gone from <40 to the mid 50s. My trigs are around there or lower than 100. Again, the lack of higher TC and LDL and even lower HDL could be because I was a body builder when I was younger so have a bit of muscle mass.

People with FH (familial hypercholesterolemia) have high LDL, but they have other issues too. Some people think those other issues are the cause of any heart disease they get, and I tend to agree (as there was a recent study with many people with FH who have zero scores on CAC, which implies to me that LDL isn’t the cultprit.)

There are so many factors…

(Joey) #15

Okay, I’ll share my “USA” figures (pre & post keto). Sorry, I hate to be that Ugly American, but the whole conversion thing could cause more brain damage than I can withstand at this moment.

Spoiler alert: LC/HF & thoughtful exercise (cardio + HIIT strength) are working :wink:

TLDR: Screw the old school view of LDL and Tot Cholesterol. Even our internists agree that such thinking is wrong in a low carb context.
. . . . .
Jan 2018 (Pre-keto, decades of low fat/high carb eating. Was “reasonably lean” @ 165lbs / 34" waist, daily jogger):
TRIG = 94
HDL = 59
Trig/HDL ratio = 1.6x
LDL = 175
TOT CHOL = 253
. . . . .
Aug 2019 (1 month into LC/HF, already losing weight/waist, daily cardio):
TRIG = 86
HDL = 82
Trig/HDL ratio = 1.0x
LDL = 152
TOT CHOL = 252
. . . . .
Dec 2019 (5 month into LC/HF, dropped to 140lbs / waist 31" still same daily cardio):
(i.e., suddenly lost 3" in waistline and 25 lbs with same exercise routine I’d been doing for decades)
TRIG = 50
HDL = 96
Trig/HDL ratio = 0.5x <-- worth noting
LDL = 222
TOT CHOL = 328
. . . . .
Jan 2021 (18 months into LC/HF, still 140lbs / waist 31", daily cardio):
(i.e., weight/waistline remain stable - strength HIIT & cardio)
TRIG = 56
HDL = 108
Trig/HDL ratio = 0.5x
LDL = 147
TOT CHOL = 264
. . . . .
Jan 2022 (2.5 yrs on LC/HF, stable weight/waist - visible muscle tone and body strength):
TRIG = 52
HDL = 119
Trig/HDL ratio = 0.4x <- worth noting
LDL = 238
TOT CHOL = 362 <- worth noting
. . . . .
Jan 2023 (3.5 yrs on LC/HF, stable weight/waist - further increased body strength/tone):
TRIG = 50
HDL = 116
Trig/HDL ratio = 0.4x <- family internist loves this
LDL = 227
TOT CHOL = 348 <- same doctor: doesn’t care about this

#16

Hi Joey, thanks for sharing your numbers, now I’ll just have to find some way to convert them but like you, lol, I’m not all that fond of using converters, they give me a headache too.

So your HDL continued to go consistently up I see, and your triglycerides continued to go down. Your LDL seemed to go up when you were losing weight? And went down again when your weight remained stable? But then it seemed after that to go both up and down regardless, could this be due to activity levels? Did you fast? According to Dave Feldman these factors very much matter as he has shown by tweaking this and that he has been able to manipulate his lipids. So, for example, by increasing fat three days before testing he was able to bring his LDL down. Fasting three days before testing was shown to increase LDL. If I remember this correctly.

(Alec) #17

Here’s mine. Some context to each date:

  1. 1st Apr 2015: I was on a health kick, hence getting the test done, not keto, not even low carb, but probably real food, low processed crap
  2. 3rd Feb 2020: this was when I was eating a lot of fruit (thinking it was not too bad for me… how wrong can you be???). I knew it had carbs, but had fallen for the “fruit and veg” health halo nonsense. I know better now. Look at those trigs… ugh! I also remember the reason for getting the tests done was I was NOT feeling well in general, but really nothing was found that might cause it. I now believe it was simply me eating too many bloody plants.
  3. 13th Feb 2023: 13 months strict carnivore. Look at those lovely trigs and trigs/HDL ratio… very proud of that! LDL… just wow! Lean mass hyper responder territory! That LDL number is 450 in US units! :joy::joy::joy::scream: Dr getting very excited…

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(Joey) #18

Short answer: No, I’ve never intentionally altered my eating in preparation for a lipid panel (other than not eating for 12 hours prior to the morning lipid test, which would’ve been the case anyhow). On the contrary, I try to maintain my normal routine so the results aren’t temporarily skewed.

My Tot Cholesterol and LDL meanderings are what they are. I don’t take any stock in their variability - they’re appreciably higher than old school lab ranges suggest are “healthy.” Yeah, right.

As for fasting, I normally eat 2 meals a day between a 5-6 hour window - not out of any self-imposed objective, merely based on appetite. I like to say: Breakfast is the most important meal of the day … to skip :wink:

And as an “LMHR” I don’t think I’d last too long on serious extended fasting. Perhaps it would be easier than I imagine. But I have no motivation or perceived need to try as I’m not trying to “fix” anything. (Perhaps someday as a personal experiment?) :man_shrugging:

(Alec) #19

Oh yes, I like that! Spot on!

Honestly, the health messages we are given by the dietary authorities and the media are just laughable when you go down the rabbit hole and look at the real research… it’s almost like the people generating these messages have ulterior motives… ahem…. :joy::joy::joy::face_with_symbols_over_mouth::face_with_symbols_over_mouth::face_with_symbols_over_mouth:

(Joey) #20

I may be missing it, but it appears that only the Feb 2023 report is posted?