Let's Revisit "The Plant Paradox" by Dr. Steven Gundry

science
vegetables
intermittentfasting
(Veronica C) #1

Hello Forum,

I read the past posts on the subject topic and I wanted to re-start a discussion. You should see Dr. G cook - it looks so easy!
I am going to try his Keto program - 80% fat (mostly from olive and MCT oil), 10% protein,10% carb - has anyone been doing this?

From my watching several online videos, and reading and re-reading the book:

  • Dr. Gundry is a knowledgable physician that continually seeks new research and is flexible to incorporate sound science into his recommendations. This is GREAT!
  • He does sell supplements, but I donā€™t think he NEEDs to - he says in videos that he see Medicare/MediCal patients, so he isnā€™t completely profit minded and because of his distinguished past cardiac surgery accomplishments, he must be pretty well off. So I percieve the supplement pitches as a way to gather data, while making a bit of money on the side - no harm no foul. The book lists the individual supplements he recommends so you donā€™t have to purchase his brand.
  • He has said he does not follow a Keto diet, but Dr. Gundry did incorporate a Plant Paradox Keto style plan in his book for those of us with autoimmune/stubborn weight/deranged metabolism issues - Thank you! He does apply intermittent and seasonal fasting into his personal regimen

Hi Richard and Carl! I loved the last podcast from Dr. Lenzkes, what an upbeat message and messenger! Thank you. Could you ask Dr. Gundry to be a guest, please? Suggestions for discussion - his Keto approach, his fasting regimen, his supplement recommendations?

(Jeanne Wagner) #2

I just saw a video infomercial here: http://cutyourcravings.com/180405B.php?n=aff that he does. I was all on board, then heard he talk about the bad bugs in your gut make you crave the BAD things like carbs, grains, and saturated fats. Whut???

What does he say about saturated fats in his book? I mean he was basically saying that he went Keto and lost the weight, and of course worked up to the prebiotics stuff, and Ketoā€™s WOE has saturated fats as part of its foundations.

#3

I did this for about 10 weeks recently. I felt good but not any better than a 10-week stretch of strict keto would make me feel. Overall, I feel like crap when I eat 10% protein. I as sold for awhile, especially because lectin containing fruits like tomatoes and bell peppers are fairly carby anyway. But overall Iā€™m tepid about the entire thing. His idea on the great disrupters is good, most of us can benefit from less antibiotics or NSAIDs for example. But lectins donā€™t seem to make a difference to me, at least not that I can notice. They are definitely not some missing link. My gf has GI issues and she did it with me, the reduction in lectins made little difference. We learned her symptoms were more from carbonated beverages (La Croix) than anything else.

I donā€™t think any of the diet advice he gives is bad, Iā€™m just not convinced all of it is good either. Or at the very least not that big of deal for most people. But thereā€™s nothing wrong with trying it out. I did flinch when I saw the cost of his supplements. The prices seemed really high. I quickly dismissed that idea.

(Jeanne Wagner) #4

Thatā€™s interesting that your gf had issues with La Croix. Iā€™ve started drinking it a month or so ago (never drank ā€œsparkling waterā€ before, it tasted like acid water, nasty), but I thought it was basically just carbonated, and the flavor is more like the barest hint. I smell it more than taste it. I havenā€™t noticed any issues. Maybe itā€™s the flavoring, that is also supposed to be natural, that is affecting her. We all react differently to ingredients.

#5

To be fair to La Croix Iā€™ve read that any type of carbonated beverage can cause some people GI issues. People who think they might have minor IBS often get relief from limiting their intake of carbonated beverages. We both love La Croix and Iā€™m convinced itā€™s safe/healthy from the results Iā€™ve had, I just limit it to one can per day instead of maybe 3-4.

(Stephen Howard) #6

Hi all,
Currently on an all meat diet, coming off benzoes, nicotine mints, working full time and more. With all meat itā€™s been hard giving up carbs and variety. I end up sneaking one kambucha every other day which is <20g total carbs per day. Iā€™ve never gone keto but I am intermittently in ketosis on all meat as blood keto meter shows.

Before all meat I was eating:

Morning smoothie of 1 cup mixed frozen berries, 3-4 packed cups of spinach, kale, chard, 1 cup raw carrot juice, 1-2 tbsp almond butter, 1-2 tbsp shelled hemp seeds, 1-2 tbsp vitamin code sprouted multifiber gluten free (supposedly) / psyllium husk free, collogen powder, fermented cacao powder, 1-2 tbsp ghee all organic and filtered water to fill in the rest. <ā€” used glucose meter and my bg stays below 90mg/dl after 1 and 2 hours.

With the above I would scramble and eat three eggs and one avocado.

The afternoonish: 2-3 cups mixed nuts and 2-3 cups popcorn all organic. <ā€”both from costco

Usually I could finish the above before noon and was still starving. I now think popcorn and nuts everyday sucked due to antinutrients and carb density of popcorn.

Dinner: Dragon bowls or Kelly Brogan M.D.'s meat sauce or chicken curry.

The all meat diet is seemingly less appealing as I go on to week 6 now. I can explain my current regimen if interested.

I might want to switch back to my smoothie and incorporate a steak or chicken thighs in the morning to hold me over till lunch or even dinner but Iā€™m not sure if that will do the trick as I have a high intensity physically demanding job out in the field all day and get very hangry by 2pm.

Any suggestions for going back to a second iteration of my original diet substituting eggs for steak or chicken thighs, minus the nuts and popcorn? Maybe I needed to add more ghee to the smoothie and have a heavyer keto lunch. Any suggestions on filling in the afternoon with something really easy to throw together and store in an ice chest for lunch? Or bulk up in the morning enough to get me to 5pm?

Send any dietitians who will advise me in orange county and la areas of Cali. Any practical videos for what to eat in a day for people with physically demanding jobs. Lists/recipies?

I am not concerned with what the food looks or tastes like as I treat it as fuel. Im looking for more quick and easy. Something like a dragon bowl is what I imagine might work. I am familiar with Dr. Gundryā€™s work and plan on adapting any of your suggestions using his ā€œyesā€ list of foods where possible. Lastly I am mildly allergic to avocados and walnuts. Not sure if itā€™s a bad idea to eat these or not.

Thanks!

(Rob) #7

That old diet was a metric tonne of calories and carbs (if you meant 2-3 cups of nuts and a Vitality Dragon Bowl), though Iā€™m sure it was appropriate to your physical demands, etc. Back of the envelope is about 3400kcal and about 260 carbs.

To switch to a ZC diet is a massive change so itā€™s not surprising that it is a bit of a shock to the system and feels pretty restrictive.

Is there a middle ground, e.g. adding veg (all the standard ones on Gundryā€™s list are keto except sweet potato (and onion)) to the meaty meals, having low carb/high fat salads (to take for lunch?), LC curry with cauliflower rice, etc. Macadamias are low-carb/high fat (but pricey in the quantities you might get through :grin:). Not sure about lectins in those. Focus on getting keto benefits but not via ZC. I think we can square that with Gundryā€™s philosophy?

(Bunny) #8

I equate Dr. Gundry (the master of Tom Foolery) to an old huckster looking to make a buck on information already their but explained in a different context claiming his own research. The man really discusts me! I have never seen anyone so carelessly and recklessly manipulate data like this man has!

(Dan Dan) #9

He claims Humans consuming Splenda will kill off 50% of their ā€˜gut microfloraā€™ :thinking:

In the study, Splenda sweetener, which contains 1.1% of actual sucralose and the rest fillers, was administered to rats at Splenda dosages that contained sucralose at 1.1-11 mg/kg (the US FDA Acceptable Daily Intake for sucralose is 5 mg/kg). Now relate this amount to a human.

Assuming that the same effects would be observed in a human, and that follow-up studies get similar results, how much Splenda is this for a 60kg person, or a person that weighs only 140 pounds? To get the minimum you need to repeat this 60 times, which comes out to be 60 packets of Splenda and the maximum is 10 times that at 600 packets a day :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

Now compare this to me at 91kg and my favorite drink mix contains 5 packets per liter would be 18 liters minimum and 180 liters maximum a day :open_mouth:

I drink 3 liters so I think Iā€™m safe :wink:

Here is the study that was funded by the Sugar Association :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

Splenda alters gut microflora and increases intestinal p-glycoprotein and cytochrome p-450 in male rats.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?cmd=Search&term=splenda+and+Abou-Donia+and+El-Masry+and+Abdel-Rahman+and+Schiffman&doptcmdl=Books

Is Splenda Inadequately Tested and Unsafe?
An Expert Panel conducted a rigorous evaluation of this study. In arriving at its conclusions, the Expert Panel considered the design and conduct of the study, its outcomes and the outcomes reported in other data available publicly. The Expert Panel found that the study was deficient in several critical areas and that its results cannot be interpreted as evidence that either Splenda, or sucralose, produced adverse effects in male rats, including effects on gastrointestinal microflora, body weight, CYP450 and P-gp activity, and nutrient and drug absorption. The study conclusions are not consistent with published literature and not supported by the data presented.

(Dan Dan) #10

He freely admits that the weight he lost and touts throughout the video is not typical :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

As for the rest of his claims they can be easily gained on a ketogenic diet :wink:

(Doug) #11

Agreed, Bunny. He is pretty well at the far end of the spectrum, i.e. the bad end.

(Bunny) #12

Exactly, the ā€œplant paradoxā€ book (an excuse to eat too much sugar) needs a name change by coining it the ā€˜sugar paradoxā€™ (would do it more justice). The book would not exist if acknowledgement was to the ketogenic diet which really is the premise on which his frame work is based! Take away the sugar (Advanced Glycation End-products AGEā€™s) and lectins are no longer a culprit when gut flora biome are in good standing.

(Daniel) #13

so I use his prebiothrive, and itā€™s worked pretty well for me. I find my sugar cravings are way more manageable for me when I take it. Maybe itā€™s placebo, maybe itā€™s not, but I donā€™t see a reason to stop taking it so far.

(Dan Dan) #14

There are lots of topics and posts on gut health here just use the search feature :smiley:

Members have posted videos and research and opinions on gut health :wink:

(Daniel) #15

is this your nice way of telling me to shut up? because thatā€™s how itā€™s coming across

(Dan Dan) #16

My comment was in response to your comment, letting you know that this forum has covered gut health many times.

How you got that anybody told you to shut up or stop is beyond me :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

(Daniel) #17

I know how a forum works, thanks. I offered my personal experience with an on-topic product. Didnā€™t ask any questions, but you do you.

(Veronica C) #18

Hi there,

I guess I am too forgiving about human nature. Anyone whoā€™s written a book can be suspected of trying to make a buck. SO I urge a little tolerance, here. Like I said in my initial post, he probable does not NEED to make extra money.

In his book, The Plan Paradox (that I checked out from the library - I have 0 money invested), he states several times that you donā€™t need to purchase his supplements.

The main premise of his book is to alert us to some of the ways plant proteins, lectins, can cause damage to those that are susceptible - several autoimmune-type conditions. I have thrown out the cashews and I feel a lot better and my alopecia has resolved. No harm, no foul - I donā€™t need to eat cashews.

I appreciate his (are restricted) keto diet.

(Doug) #19

Veronica, he may well have some valuable concepts in the book. Iā€™m just used to hearing people being really mad because of his business practices. Personally, Iā€™ve never had any dealings with him (I am glad of that).

#20

Would you consider the Plant Paradox diet a keto diet? I remember reading in his book that he was on a keto diet, but he does not recommend limiting carbs in his book, just eat according to the yes / no list (attached). Also, he does not recommend saturated fats.Plant-Paradox-Shopping-LIst.pdf (583.1 KB)