No thanks! This keto leftie wants real food. 
By the way, Nathan, saw your pics on the before/after thread and I’m seriously impressed. Great inspiration for all!
Lectured by a Vegan 🙄 What other ways has Keto improved your health/ life?
NathanHall
(Nathan Hall)
#63
Thanks! I kinda wish I could take more credit, but almost all I did was figure up some rough macros and focus on all the great food I get to eat. When I was younger, I treated eating like a competitive sport. 
Now, I can enjoy some really good food in reasonable quantities, as dictated by my body. (Which I feel like I can trust now.) It’s a nice feeling to trust your body. We hadn’t spoken in quite a while. 
MooBoom
(MooBoom)
#67
I have never met a Vegan who wanted me to turn vegan for my health.
I have met plenty of keto folk who want others to become keto for their health.
One way of eating is about a perceived reduction in harm to the planet, the other way of eating is about an actual reduction in harm to the human animal.
I’ll stick with keto, thanks.
Rajseth
(Raj Seth)
#68
Highlighted the operative word there. Annual crops decimate our souls (oh no keto slip), while perennial forage greens do not. There is some work, too complicated for me, that posturing livestock may result in a more sustainable farm method
kib
(karen)
#70
if it were actually true, a moral high ground for the planet, I would give it house room, but that’s all it is - a perception. There’s just as much death and environmental destruction on a plate of nicey nice plants grown as monocrops. Moral whitewash.
charlie3
(charlie3)
#71
There are many millions of acres around the world suitable for growing animal feed but not food for human consumption. An obvious example is western cattle ranches. People will eat less meat when it gets more expensive regardless of how that happens.
BTW “grass fed”, with rare exceptions, does not mean pasture raised. Pastured cattle destroy most of the grass by trampling it. (If there is a marginal field nearby, not useable for crops, may be dry dairy cattle will be pastured on it.) I imagine your grass fed beef is raised in feed lots and probably fed alfalfa or a blend.
I wanted to give the vegans, plant based, etc. spokesmen a fair hearing but they are insufferable propagandists and not interested in my health. I think they are awful because their cause is fading because of the metabolic syndrome epidemic.
monstermash
(Maha)
#73
[quote=“tdean, post:55, topic:41250, full:true”]
I’ve just seen an Attenborough documentary on plants that suggests that they can hear and transmit sound through their root systems. Which means they may be able to communicate among themselves,[/quote]
Can we say Day of the Triffids?
OldDoug
(Doug)
#74
When I go back inside after tending flowers and vegetable plants, I tell them to “Talk amongst yourselves.”
monstermash
(Maha)
#75
I think if someone who is vegan is open minded, I would simply explain that their presumably high carb diet could be wreaking havoc on their system and suggest they get their lab work done, and explain how your blood numbers improved. I would come at it from a strictly health perspective, because that’s not really arguable.
If they’re just being argumentative, I would ignore them and let them judge away.
I’ve only ever had one person get visibly and audibly angry with me for eating meat. I was telling him about my family’s trip to Yellowstone and how I’d tried a bison burger. He went off on me about how I travelled all that way just to eat a killed animal that was shot up with hormones and who knew whatever else. I was so surprised at his reaction that all I could say was that it was good. This was many years before I’d even heard of keto, but had that happened today, I would not have given him such an easy pass. He was a guest in my house and I’d made dinner for him and his family. I don’t know what he considers himself, because he and his wife eat chicken and fish, and they finally let their kids eat red meat on occasion, but they’re some kind of pseudo-vegetarian. All I know is that when they come over to dinner, they always remind me that he doesn’t eat red meat. That they expect me to cater to him is unreal. They haven’t been over for dinner since - we just go out to dinner instead.
Q66
(KetoQ)
#76
I had a teacher back in high school who said something that for some reason always stuck with me, and that is, “All education is self education.”
There is plenty of info on the world wide interwebs and the Youtubes that can talk about the pros and cons of keto, veganism or whatever. There’s no need to debate it. The info is out there. You either buy into it or you don’t. I’m not here to convince you, or get into a pissing match about it.
I came to keto because nothing else has worked, and I’ve enjoyed some very good success combining keto, IF and trying to be more active. I have no problem with vegan or other approaches, they just didn’t work for me. Not every approach is right for everyone. Maybe someday keto will not be the best for me. Right now it is, and even my cardiologist is not going to be able to get me to change.
Bellyman
(Brian)
#78
That’s the kind of attitude I really appreciate.
What really bugs me is when talking to people who want to demonize the path that they’re not on while minimizing the negatives of the one they’ve chosen. I suppose that’s kinda normal but it still bugs me.
A person I was talking with just last evening was convinced that people on the keto diet eat nothing but meat and they’re killing their liver and kidneys. It happened to be a vegan/vegetarian type and I’m sure that sounded really factual to them. Um, no. But they didn’t stick around long enough to hear any input from someone who actually eats keto. Another person was probably flabbergasted to learn that even though I’m keto and eat “all the cheese I want”, he’s a vegetarian and eats more cheese than I do. Hmmm. It just gets kinda stupid after a while.
Chris_W
(Crow T. Robot)
#79
Yes, if incorrectly pastured. Joel Salatin has quite a lot to say on this topic.
You also might enjoy this: https://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_how_to_green_the_world_s_deserts_and_reverse_climate_change
kib
(karen)
#80
I definitely agree with this. Extended fasting (say 24-120 hours) is a big fat loss booster but it can be really unpleasant if your body isn’t ready for it, easy peasy (at least for some people) if it is ready. The progression I’d recommend is:
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focus on limiting your carbs to 20 grams net or less per day, be aware of your protein intake and keep it moderate (“moderate” depends on your lean body mass and is somewhat arbitrary), be nice to yourself regarding fat.
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Start shrinking your eating window a bit and see if that’s doable for you.
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As your body adjusts to burning fat, you should gradually find yourself transitioning into burning your own fat rather than external dietary fat (I think the idea is that your body gets better at evenly burning its own fat and at this point your satiety signaling kicks in earlier rather than telling you it would like another 500 calories of butter, please.) Any “keto flu” should disappear, you will hopefully be hungry, be able to tell when you are hungry but not be crazed or craving, you should find yourself with a relatively steady energy level.
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At this point if shortening your eating window has become natural and works for you, you might consider an extended fast. This is the fastest way to drop pounds and at least theoretically, it doesn’t lead to metabolic slowdown the way calorie restriction can. Some people hate fasting and don’t do it and it’s absolutely not necessary, it’s just a good boost.
One thing I always remind myself: the body has an upper limit to how much body fat it can access / burn in a day, somewhere around half a pound max. That’s if it’s functioning ideally and no receiving any external nutrition. Those “biggest loser” 30 pound losses are not realistic for most people, and they’re Not Fat. The scale can stall because of excess water retention and then “whoosh” out several pounds, but the scale is not a very accurate measure of fat loss, a measuring tape is better.
