Lack of Motivation to be Productive with Keto

(Brian) #1

Hi Everyone, First post here. In late May I started to reduce my carb intake by switching breakfast to a fattier diet with no grains. That made me feel great and started losing weight. 10lbs by the end of July where I had been at a fixed 178-182 for two years. I started doing Keto 4 weeks ago and have been sticking under 25g of carbs since every day. I’ve lost 8lbs since starting keto.

One of the reasons I was interested in Keto aside from some weight loss (want to hit around 150lbs) was to regulate my energy levels and intern help with focus and concentration. Before I felt like I was either full of energy or falling asleep. The roller coaster all day long was getting worse year over year. From May through July the energy rollercoaster flattened out a bit but a couple of days after starting keto it was very consistent day to day hour by hour. Two weeks in my energy started taking a gradual drop where I just wanted to nap all day like a cat and through some research realized I was low on potassium. I have cleared that up it seems with eatting more walnuts and pistachios, taking a potassium pill in the AM and PM (only a fractional benefit), modest servings of fruit in the AM and Dr. Bergs kale shake which I find to be quite nice (different electrolyte and lemongrass powder though)

My biggest concern now with the keto change is a lack of motivation for doing work and being productive. I run my own company and really need this motivation to be back without the energy roller coaster or the lack of focus sometimes that carbs and sugar causes. I’m curious if anyone else has had motivational issues (not related to motivation to do keto) and if it is a transition period or something more. Any links to articles/videos, thoughts or shared experiences would be helpful. I’ve tried looking and coming up empty. I am really enjoying my new state of being much better except for that which is making it very easy to continue with. I am also getting more sleep as well and don’t feel groggy in the mornings and wide awake at midnight. Regarding sleep I am currently letting my body sleep what it wants and seems to like 10-11 hours. A big difference from my previous range of 6-8 and at night I want to go to sleep at 10-11pm.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #2

You are probably not fat-adapted yet. Your body is still getting its mitochondria to shift over to the fat-burning metabolic pathway. Give it another month or so, and you ought to feel a difference by then. It may comfort you to know that athletes also see a hit in their performance until they become fat-adapted. Just keep your carbohydrate low, and the body will be forced to adapt.

In the meantime, work on keeping your salt intake up. New research is showing that we need around 5 g of sodium a day (about 2.5 U.S. teaspoons—which includes the salt already in the food) for maximum health. On top of that, when we were eating carbs, the insulin slowed down our excretion of sodium, so on keto we need to work a bit to compensate for the kidneys’ higher, normal rate of excreting sodium. (On keto, we probably need somewhat more than 5 g of sodium, but I haven’t seen anything to indicate how much more.) Be sure to drink to thirst. Keeping salt intake up will also help regulate your potassium, magnesium, and calcium.

It sounds as though you are doing fine, especially for four weeks in. Just keep calm, and keto on.

Here’s some virtual bacon to encourage you: :bacon::bacon:

(Brian) #3

Thanks @PaulL. It is amazing to feel the changes in ones body every day. I think the carb highs of a normal diet cover up how one is really feeling due to the ups and downs of energy and eating is always a good bandage to feeling better temporarily on a regular diet. I’m defiantly going to keep it up, overall I feel good and I love the feeling of not being dependent on food intake regularly. But to the topic, I was hopeful that it was just a temporary adaption thing. Time will tell and thanks for the tasty bacon!

(Terence Dean) #4

Welcome to the forums Brian, what Paul said basically. We’ve all been through what you’re experiencing at the moment, its part of the adaption phase, getting the body used to using fat for energy rather than carbs and sugars. Some people experience cramps, head-aches, lack of energy, etc. Its all part of the Keto flu as we call it. Search “Keto flu” on these forums and you’ll find plenty of references to what that is all about.

Useful information for people new to the Ketogenic diet

(Brian) #5

Thanks Terence I’ll just keep on keeping on and see how things evolve.

(Clara Teixeira) #6

How are you balancing out your omega 6’s and 3’s? Eating a lot of nuts definitely raises those omega 6 levels and can make one feel lethargic. Also look into finding out your vit D level. Electrolytes definitely help too!

(Brian) #7

I started feeling much better two and a half weeks ago. Ended up jumping into a weekend project of carving a wooden 5 strip kayak paddle with hand tools in two days laser focused on that. Which was an interesting turn of events. As far as eating I think I am doing pretty good and eating food that makes me happy which is very different than what I ate before. @ClaraJTeixeira I am eating some nuts, an even by weight walnut/pistachio/almond/cashew blend but it’s no more than I ever ate which might be about 2-3oz a day just less peanuts and more walnuts.

Every day I am eating a sizable salad (lettuce, peppers, carrots, onions, tomatoes, cheese) for lunch with usually Marie’s Parmesan Ranch dressing with a bit of bacon or fried summer sausage occasionally. I am also doing 16 oz or more a day of a kale/avocado/mct/lemon juice drink. I’ve done a couple of mornings of bullet proof coffee but if I do its light on the MCT and butter. About a ½ tbsp of each. The only other big additions is 2-3 oz of the nut mix and occasionally about 3oz of plain full fat Greek yogurt. Occasionally I will have some other dish, but those things make me feel very satisfied and holds me over till noon - 2pm the next day and usually don’t eat anything after 8pm. So I’m usually fasting for around 16 hours.

In energy news I did a weekend backpacking trip recently and really felt like I needed little to no food for 11 miles. I have back an enormous amount of cycling energy to push through the pedals like I haven’t felt in a few years. And kayaking out on Lake Michigan which a morning of usually burns over a thousand calories I don’t really eat any of the snacks I bring. I have a 4 day kayak touring trip in a week so I’m excited to see how that turns out in regards to food. It will be much cooler temps up north so lots of options.

I ate some chorizo potato tacos (gasp) earlier this week for dinner and felt this strange exhaustion about a half an hour later. Sleepy time carb comma. They were very tastie, but it was interesting to see how food can make one feel in a controlled test. I haven’t had a food comma since starting with keto and was a frustrating feeling to say the least. I don’t regret it though. Had only a shade lighter difference in color on a ketone strip the next day for what that is worth and about two hours after eating I felt perfectly fine again.

I’m at 160lbs and feel much better and much calmer as a general state of being as well and none of that desire to just sit on the sofa and zone out for a half a day like I was going through before. Anyways so I’m cured I think! Ha going to keep on keeping and see how my body guides me and what makes me feel better small tests at a time so I can feel and appreciate the differences in how food affects me.

#8

That’s awesome, Brian! By the way, it’s really nice that you came back to give an update. I feel like the threads with issues people are dealing with are so much more helpful in the long run when we get to hear how things played out. And in this case, it’s all good news, which is even better!

("Don't call it calories, call it food") #9

@bcy83 I’d love your kale/avo juice/smoothie recipes! :slight_smile:

(Sean McCarthy) #10

I’m not a keto-nut, and I actually experience some cons to the ketogenic diet, in addition to some pros.

Regarding your question, however, I actually find I’m more motivated on a ketogenic diet, rather than less. My theory was that I had more cortisol (stress hormone) and less serotonin (calming hormone). Carbs/insulin are needed to shuttle tryptophan to the brain, where it’s converted to serotonin.

Personally, my worst problem with the ketogenic diet is sleeping. My blood sugar would get so low in the middle of the night, and then my cortisol would spike, along with low serotonin/melatonin. I would wake up buzzing but still tired… To combat that, I try to eat 75-100 grams of net carbs per day, with most before bedtime, to ensure my brain has enough glucose to last the night. This way I experience all the benefits of ketosis, without the con of not being able to stay asleep, which many experience.

I know what some will say–that I’m not actually in ketosis–but the brain needs 400 calories of glucose per day which equates to 100 grams of net carbs, so anything less than 100 grams of net carbs leads to ketosis. Plus I measure my ketones.

(Bob M) #11

You really don’t want to eat Marie’s Parmesan Ranch dressing. The main ingredient is soybean oil, which is about 57% PUFA. See:

https://maries.com/products/parmesan-ranch/

Between this and nuts, you could be getting a large slug of PUFAs. Is this a bad amount? It’s unclear. But just using your own oil and vinegar dressing will help.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #12

Interestingly, the source you cite does admit that “In starvation, ketone bodies generated by the liver partly replace glucose as fuel for the brain.” In fact, there is research to indicate that, given a good supply of β-hydroxybutryate, the brain needs much less glucose, if any at all (Dr. Phinney describes such research done by friends of his in one of his standard talks, but unfortunately, I have not preserved the reference). Professor Benjamin Bikman has even issued a challenge to all and sundry to provide him references to studies showing how much glucose the brain actually needs. He claims that he has never been able to find any such study, and that assertions of how much glucose the brain requires appear to be unfounded guesses.

It is known, of course, that cells lacking in mitochondria, such as erythrocytes, definitely must have glucose, and Dr. Georgia Ede asserts that certain sections of neurons also need glucose, beeing too long and thin to contain even a single mitochondrion. However, I have not seen her cite a reference to support this statement. (That doesn’t mean that she doesn’t have such a reference, merely that she hasn’t cited it in those videos of her talks that I have happened to watch.)

Personally, I find that I am perfectly able to sleep on a diet of very little carbohydrate. I wonder if it is really lack of glucose that keeps you awake at night.

(Sean McCarthy) #13

Thanks for your thoughts. The brain can definitely survive on less than 100 grams of carbs–it uses ketones when it’s short on glucose. Anything less than 100 grams, and you’re in ketosis, since the brain needs around 400 calories per day, and it prefers glucose, but it’ll use ketones if there’s no glucose. I actually wish more keto-advocates would realize this. Most people don’t do enough research into what’s actually going on. Why would our bodies produce ketones at all? Because the brain needs fuel, and only a few fuels can cross the blood-brain barrier. Water-soluble fat molecules like ketones can cross the barrier. This is probably also why people get headaches during the “keto flu”–because their brains are short on fuel until the liver can ramp up the ketone production.

It’s a common problem not to be able to stay asleep on low-carb diets. If you had the same problem, you’d find lots of articles and forums devoted to the topic. I’ve experimented a lot and it’s definitely ketosis that’s keeping me from falling back asleep at 4-6 a.m. When I eat carbs and have enough serotonin, I easily sleep until 7:00 a.m. and even feel a bit groggy when I first wake up. If I eat less than 100 grams of carbs the day before, or go for a run or other cardio exercise that uses up my glycogen, I often wake up too early, buzzing with motivation/anxiety but tired at the same time. I’m sure this doesn’t affect everyone the same, but there are definitely quite a few of us out there. I’m not prone to anxiety or stress–I love my job and my family.

Anyway, I need serotonin to stay asleep, and I can’t produce enough serotonin if I’m in ketosis. It’s the only thing I don’t like about ketosis–otherwise I’d do it all the time. In fact, I try to stay just barely out of ketosis. I track my calories and net carbs, and try to eat exactly 100 grams per day (especially in the evenings). Then in the mornings I’m right back on the keto diet until the next evening.

Cheers,
Sean

(Todd) #14

Improved sleep was one of the more apparent beneficial effects of keto for me. I used to take about 5 sleeping pills per week on average over a 5 year period pre-keto and even then I still had problems sleeping.

Post-keto (and then even after I quit keto), my sleep has generally been perfect. Not a single sleeping pill used during 2 full years on Keto and I normally fell asleep now within 5 minutes of going to sleep. It’s been remarkable. I wake rested all of the time now and although I still set an alarm I always wake before it goes off.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #15

Actually the headaches are a symptom of low sodium, since the kidneys excrete sodium faster in the absence of carbohydrate and insulin. Keep the salt intake up, and stay hydrated—no keto “flu”!

Try to get more tryptophan in your diet. Dr. Lustig explains in The Hacking of the American Mind that 90% of the tryptophan we eat never even makes it to the brain, since serotonin is so useful in so many different ways, all through the body. The problem is that serotonin made in the rest of the body can’t cross the blood-brain barrier, so the brain has to make do with the tryptophan that makes it through in order to synthesize the serotonin it needs. Fortunately, two things help: first, eating more tryptophan increases the odds that the brain will get enough; and second, ketosis has a beneficial effect on the management of serotonin in the brain.

(Sean McCarthy) #16

Thanks a lot, @PaulL, for your well-considered and researched answers and suggestions. Much appreciated!

After a really long 11 km run today, I added a lot of salt (actually half-potassium, half-sodium) to my post-workout shake, and I think I feel better as a result. I’ll definitely keep that in mind! I’ve heard the “add more salt” angle before, but after years of advice to the contrary, it’s counter-intuitive to load up on the sodium. But I will!

I found an interesting blurb on just adding more protein (in hopes of increasing tryptophan uptake for serotonin production in the brain). Instead of paraphrasing, I’ll just paste one of the paragraphs below:

Although purified tryptophan increases brain serotonin, foods containing tryptophan do not. This is because tryptophan is transported into the brain by a transport system that is active toward all the large neutral amino acids and tryptophan is the least abundant amino acid in protein. There is competition between the various amino acids for the transport system, so after the ingestion of a meal containing protein, the rise in the plasma level of the other large neutral amino acids will prevent the rise in plasma tryptophan from increasing brain tryptophan. The idea, common in popular culture, that a high-protein food such as turkey will raise brain tryptophan and serotonin is, unfortunately, false. Another popular myth that is widespread on the Internet is that bananas improve mood because of their serotonin content. Although it is true that bananas contain serotonin, it does not cross the blood–brain barrier.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #17

Very intersting paragraph. Personally, I wouldn’t assert that tryptophan from food never makes it into the brain—given that our ancestors somehow managed to make do without being able to pop down to the corner GNC, even as recently as sixty years ago—but in general it’s a valid point. Just take it with a grain (or gram!) of salt, lol! :rofl:

(Sean McCarthy) #18

Agreed–gotta have tryptophan to make serotonin, and more tryptophan is better. More protein of all types is better. But since my problem is sleep, and I already get 100-150 grams of protein per day (ketosis obviously isn’t my primary goal–just general health, and staying slim), what I found in my research (and my personal experience) was that having adequate carbs helped increase tryptophan uptake in the brain, since insulin removes tryptophan’s competition. And for me, personally, having adequate carbs in the evening definitely improves my sleep.

Here’s another interesting tidbit on tryptophan and carbs, in relation to brain serotonin production:

The best known example is serotonin, whose synthesis is limited by the availability of its precursor, tryptophan, in the brain. Consuming tryptophan or a carbohydrate-rich, protein-poor meal increases brain levels of tryptophan and serotonin. Although a carbohydrate meal itself lacks tryptophan, the meal causes insulin to be secreted. Insulin, in turn, decreases plasma levels of large neutral amino acids that would ordinarily compete with tryptophan for transport across the blood-brain barrier. Resulting brain changes in serotonin provide a plausible mechanism whereby diet could affect behaviour. Research on human subjects suggests that ingesting tryptophan or carbohydrate can reduce subjective alertness and possibly influence some aspects of objective performance.

The kicker is that the carbs should be consumed in the evening, since carbs reduce alertness. Tryptophan will as well, but only in the absence of competing amino acids. That’s why Thanksgiving “sleepiness from too much turkey” is a myth. More likely you’ve just overeaten in general, or eaten too many carbs.

(Sean McCarthy) #19

I tried to post something with a few helpful links, but this site’s spam filter has identified me (incorrectly) as a spammer…

#20

It’s because you are a new user and have posted a link to the same site in two posts. I have edited the posts to take out the links and unspammed you - should be fine now :slight_smile:

Unless you comment again with the same website link - just avoid l inks for a while so the system “trusts” you.