Ketosis: a preferred body state?

(Nick) #11

Breast milk specifically keeps children in ketosis, doing just that. So-called “formula”, among the many other terrible long-term effects it has, kicks infants out of ketosis to who-knows-what ultimate detriment. I’d posit that a large chunk of Western metabolic syndrome can thank “formula” for its early kickstart.

(Cathy) #12

It also works the other way in that after being in a steady state of ketosis for very long periods of time, I do not get kicked out of ketosis with an increase in carbs - even over a few days.

(KCKO, KCFO) #13

I find that now, I am in at least the bottom rung of nutritional ketosis just about all the time. Most days I do eat around 50 g carbs, which would toss some out of ketosis. But now that I am fat adapted and maintaining my weight instead of losing, I am very stable. YMMV

#14

I appreciate your contribution to the discussion and agree that metabolic derangement is a problem that often starts in infancy. That being said, I just want to be careful on this point. Formula also has the “terrible” side effect of preventing starvation in babies whose mothers are unable to produce breast milk or milk in sufficient quantities.

(Nick) #15

Very few women are in this situation physiologically. As you’d expect, because if our evolution as mammals were as fragile and as faulty as this, we’d not be here! Indeed, careful studies show that physiological milk insufficiency is very rare.

What is true is that, as with all the hideous rest of the agribusiness and big pharma, people have been badly advised and manipulated into self-defeating strategies that have made them dependent on industrial feeding companies rather than themselves. For example, medical professionals who’ve been bribed to see every baby through a formula lense pathologise normal breastfeeding behaviour, suggest early “top ups” and basically screw up milk supply by their very advice!

This is no individual woman’s fault, any more than it’s any individual’s fault that they’re obese or T2 after following the terrible corporate advice!

So, in summary: in a world without Nestlé, women would receive the appropriate advice and support such that they would be able to feed their babies just as their millions of ancestors did. And for those few who were physiologically unable to produce milk, human milk-banks would be available, like the ones Big Formula worked hard to get closed down in the eighties.

I will be talking more about this at my AHS speech this year, and particularly focussing on how dads can stop screwing up their partners’ breastfeeding success, which is a huge part of it too.

(KB Keto) #16

@PrimalBrian - awesome questions which started some really great discussion. Thanks

Looks like you are about the same as I was when I started Keto. I started May 15th at 5’10 (still 5’10 think) and 197 (down to 181-182 range). I’m close to where I want to be weight wise, but need to knock off some of that stubborn beer fat around the mid-section. When I complete this study I am in, I will share those results and some before and after photos, etc. I plan to continue to eat this way for a long time. I love how I feel, I’m not put off by foods I cant eat or those around me eat… I cant promise I wont cheat occasionally, but life offers its own choices and I’ll make those as they come along.

Here is my N=1 (I’ve been a little lazy on it lately but I’ll update it more frequently as I head into the home stretch)

Also, a little self plug and a showing of how much I love keto since starting it - I started a website for keto. It’s one month old today so it’s still a fledgling side project but it’s been fun. Let me know what ya think.
https://kbketo.com/

Best of luck to you on this 30 Day Keto Adventure!

#17

Bookmarked for reading later! :+1: (Intrigued by the margarita as a change-up to the NorCal margaritas I used to have…)

Right there with you, indeed! I agree with all of this. It’s funny how you say you’re not put off by foods you “can’t” eat. I, too, used to use that word, but have since changed it to “foods I don’t eat.” Slightly more empowering for me, and others seem to be less resistant to trying to convince me to “just have one.” Then, when all else fails (among strangers/acquaintances), I’ll go nuclear and resort to saying “I’m allergic…” :slight_smile:

I also hear you on the “cheats.” I used to beat myself up for slip-ups. No longer. The attitude of KCKO has been a godsend and a great frame of reference to view things on a more macro (pun intended) big-picture sort of way.

#18

Excellent list here! https://kbketo.com/keto-books-documentaries

I’m halfway through Taubes’ sugar book. Amazing analysis of the history, politics, and science of sugar. It feels like you could do a search and replace of “sugar” with “tobacco” and it’d be the same story of Big Tobacco.

Might I suggest some more:

Love Paleo (documentary on Amazon)
Mark Sisson’s Primal Blueprint - (he’s also finishing up an entire book on Keto called the Keto Reset Diet, coming out Oct. 3)

#19

And, yes, I just hijacked my own thread. :stuck_out_tongue:

(KB Keto) #20

I appreciate the positive feedback and your enthusiasm about keto!

I will check those 2 out. (Actually watching the Doc right now) I would love to say I’ve read all the books on my list - i haven’t… but I do possess 2 currently and plan to read the ones on the list as I did more into things. The Art and Science of Low Carb Living has been excellent and am looking forward to the follow up in particular in regards to performance.

I hear more questions about how keto affects athletic performance than how i can eat that way and lose weight - which is great because it seems to me that it’s becoming more common that people understand that you can eat fat, cut sugar, and lose weight… whats less common is associating that weight loss with a way of healthy way of life and not just a diet to lose it and then go back to carbs because that’s what is really health (ugh)… and most people associate the necessity of carbs in athletics (thanks marketeeers!).

(Richard Morris) #21

An irony given the the foundational point of contention of the Noakes trial.

(Nick) #22

A very good point. And a reason why we will look back at the Noakes trial in future generations with dumbfounded disbelief.

(Barbara Greenwood) #23

My mother had to stop breastfeeding me at six weeks due to mastitis. My three older sisters were all breast-fed for much longer. While none of them have ever been “I eat what I want and stay slim” types, I am far and away the biggest and always have been. Coincidence?

(Cathy) #24

Maybe but I would also include the notion that we become more and more insulin resistant as time goes on on the SAD and that would mean more insulin for the fetus setting up metabolic disease.

(Jim Russell) #25

Insulin is too large of a molecule to pass through the placental barrier.

There are certainly a lot of things that affect a fetus including a lot of things that happened before the fetus was conceived.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/you-are-what-your-mother-and-father-ate-epigenetics/

(Cathy) #26

That is very interesting and sent me on a search to confirm and right you are as far as I could quickly conclude. I stand corrected and thank you for the accurate information.

(Nick) #27

Marinading the fetus in mum’s high blood-glucose does seem to lead to problems. Combine that with early “formula” feeding, and you have the “formula” to the fast track to metabolic syndrome :-/

#28

This study is specifically about gestational diabetes. I can’t help but think there is a sub-clinical glucose level that also has an effect.

Also, what year did we start testing for this?

(Todd Allen) #29

Ketosis isn’t that hard to get into. Sustained nutritional ketosis only restricting carbs is harder but most people naturally mildly enter ketosis over night if they go sufficiently long without eating and aren’t eating to excess.

I’ve found any form of fasting and/or caloric restriction greatly enhances the ease of being in ketosis. I did a month of IF, eating 1 meal daily and found I could really relax my carb restrictions and still sustain my target range of ketosis, 0.5 to 2.0 mmol/L.

I recently did a few days of water fasting and then eased back to a very low calorie diet of 1 meal a day and my ketones have been off the chart, a HI reading from my Nova Max (> 8.0 mmol/L) and my breathalyzers are topped out at 0.199% BAC.

#30

Interesting, Todd. What does 8.0+ mmol/L feel like? Above 3.0 felt weird (not in a bad way) to me, but I think the words “starvation ketosis” from Phinney/Volek’s nutritional ketosis chart was probably freaking me out.