Ketosis: a preferred body state?


#1

I’ve been keto on and off for weight loss for several years now. I’m recently recommitted and 30 days into adaptation. I’m 5’9, 197lbs, male, with about 35-40lbs I’d like to lose.

Ketosis (and nutritional ketosis) makes much scientific sense to me. And I feel great when my ketones (as measured by BHB via meter), are 1.5+. So, although this is my first post, I’m a believer. :wink:

However, one thing I haven’t been able to wrap my brain around is, if ketosis is so “good” for us, why does the body make it so hard to get “into” this state, and so unforgiving and eager to kick us “out” of this state at the earliest and easiest opportunity?


#2

Glucose is a quick and easy fuel, so it makes a lot of sense to me that we would flip to sugar burning if/when sugar is available, but I think the main answer to your question is: our personal experience of trying to get into and stay ketosis is seriously skewed because most of us have spent our lives (and several generations before) eating and living in a way that has little to do with our biological/evolutionary expectations.


(Randy) #3

High blood sugar is a metabolic emergency. The body MUST rid the blood of excess sugar. ASAP…


(A ham loving ham! - VA6KD) #4

Yeah, the bit that was the “ah ha!” moment for me was learning that our blood can carry only about two teaspoons worth of glucose and anything more that that starts doing damage to the body, thus the insulin response to encourage everything else in your body to strip/rid the excess glucose as fast as possible. A single can (~355 ml) of soft drink usually has at least 10 teaspoons of sugar…yikes!


#5

Ahhhhh…!

So, ketosis is everyone chillin’ around the campfire and all of a sudden these sugar dudes come in to cause trouble and everyone jumps up to get rid of those troublemakers??? Got it!

That explains why we leave ketosis quickly - to deal with the “emergency.” Thanks for that simple explanation. :+1:

As for the part of my question as to why it’s so hard to enter ketosis, could it be because we have metabolically deranged ourselves as sugar burners to such a degree that our bodies lack the biochemical/mitochondrial/insulinogenic/hormonal pathways to easily be ketogenic? In other words, when we try and go ketogenic after being sugar burners for years or decades, is the body saying to itself, “What the…Bob! Go get that dusty ketosis manual off the shelf and let’s figure out how to run this thing on fat!” ?


(A ham loving ham! - VA6KD) #6

Yup! You got it. People that are “fat (keto) adapted” return to ketosis easily and without any fuss once the glucose is dispensed with. Fat adaption takes time as the mitochondria (the power houses) in your cells needs to turn up the right parts to efficiently burn ketones and that adaption takes time.


(Mike Glasbrener) #7

My recent n=1 experiment fits with this. First getting into keto and through PISS took 4-6 weeks. I was non keto, although not horrible, for about 1.5 weeks. It took me only a few days of discipline to get sort of back to where I was. It may take a few more days to get all the way back… so once fat adapted and “healing” your body for some time transitioning back to ketosis is much easier.

BTW. People w/o metabolic syndrome do this without noticing at all as is evidenced by 1 of my 3 kids who eats horribly and maintains a healthy weight and athletic level.


(A ham loving ham! - VA6KD) #8

It goes back to what @richard has said about the glucose system switching from being supply-driven (and drinking from the proverbial fire hose) when eating a high carb diet, to demand-driven when eating a low/zero-carb diet and in ketosis where the liver is making most of and only the glucose you need as you need it.


(Nick) #9

If you lived in our developmental era, hunting ice-age megafauna, you’d be marvelling at how hard it is to get into a glycolytic state :wink:

It helps if you think of us as now living in metabolic bizarro-world!


(Jim Russell) #10

Ketones are burned in the mitochondria of our cells. One of the things that is happening as we become fat-adapted is that cells are building more mitochondria. Once you have ramped up the number of mitochondria it’s easier to get into ketosis.

I assume that if we were raised eating keto we would have maxed out our mitochondria at an early age.


(Nick) #11

Breast milk specifically keeps children in ketosis, doing just that. So-called “formula”, among the many other terrible long-term effects it has, kicks infants out of ketosis to who-knows-what ultimate detriment. I’d posit that a large chunk of Western metabolic syndrome can thank “formula” for its early kickstart.


(Cathy) #12

It also works the other way in that after being in a steady state of ketosis for very long periods of time, I do not get kicked out of ketosis with an increase in carbs - even over a few days.


(KCKO, KCFO) #13

I find that now, I am in at least the bottom rung of nutritional ketosis just about all the time. Most days I do eat around 50 g carbs, which would toss some out of ketosis. But now that I am fat adapted and maintaining my weight instead of losing, I am very stable. YMMV


#14

I appreciate your contribution to the discussion and agree that metabolic derangement is a problem that often starts in infancy. That being said, I just want to be careful on this point. Formula also has the “terrible” side effect of preventing starvation in babies whose mothers are unable to produce breast milk or milk in sufficient quantities.


(Nick) #15

Very few women are in this situation physiologically. As you’d expect, because if our evolution as mammals were as fragile and as faulty as this, we’d not be here! Indeed, careful studies show that physiological milk insufficiency is very rare.

What is true is that, as with all the hideous rest of the agribusiness and big pharma, people have been badly advised and manipulated into self-defeating strategies that have made them dependent on industrial feeding companies rather than themselves. For example, medical professionals who’ve been bribed to see every baby through a formula lense pathologise normal breastfeeding behaviour, suggest early “top ups” and basically screw up milk supply by their very advice!

This is no individual woman’s fault, any more than it’s any individual’s fault that they’re obese or T2 after following the terrible corporate advice!

So, in summary: in a world without Nestlé, women would receive the appropriate advice and support such that they would be able to feed their babies just as their millions of ancestors did. And for those few who were physiologically unable to produce milk, human milk-banks would be available, like the ones Big Formula worked hard to get closed down in the eighties.

I will be talking more about this at my AHS speech this year, and particularly focussing on how dads can stop screwing up their partners’ breastfeeding success, which is a huge part of it too.


(KB Keto) #16

@PrimalBrian - awesome questions which started some really great discussion. Thanks

Looks like you are about the same as I was when I started Keto. I started May 15th at 5’10 (still 5’10 think) and 197 (down to 181-182 range). I’m close to where I want to be weight wise, but need to knock off some of that stubborn beer fat around the mid-section. When I complete this study I am in, I will share those results and some before and after photos, etc. I plan to continue to eat this way for a long time. I love how I feel, I’m not put off by foods I cant eat or those around me eat… I cant promise I wont cheat occasionally, but life offers its own choices and I’ll make those as they come along.

Here is my N=1 (I’ve been a little lazy on it lately but I’ll update it more frequently as I head into the home stretch)

Also, a little self plug and a showing of how much I love keto since starting it - I started a website for keto. It’s one month old today so it’s still a fledgling side project but it’s been fun. Let me know what ya think.
https://kbketo.com/

Best of luck to you on this 30 Day Keto Adventure!


#17

Bookmarked for reading later! :+1: (Intrigued by the margarita as a change-up to the NorCal margaritas I used to have…)

Right there with you, indeed! I agree with all of this. It’s funny how you say you’re not put off by foods you “can’t” eat. I, too, used to use that word, but have since changed it to “foods I don’t eat.” Slightly more empowering for me, and others seem to be less resistant to trying to convince me to “just have one.” Then, when all else fails (among strangers/acquaintances), I’ll go nuclear and resort to saying “I’m allergic…” :slight_smile:

I also hear you on the “cheats.” I used to beat myself up for slip-ups. No longer. The attitude of KCKO has been a godsend and a great frame of reference to view things on a more macro (pun intended) big-picture sort of way.


#18

Excellent list here! https://kbketo.com/keto-books-documentaries

I’m halfway through Taubes’ sugar book. Amazing analysis of the history, politics, and science of sugar. It feels like you could do a search and replace of “sugar” with “tobacco” and it’d be the same story of Big Tobacco.

Might I suggest some more:

Love Paleo (documentary on Amazon)
Mark Sisson’s Primal Blueprint - (he’s also finishing up an entire book on Keto called the Keto Reset Diet, coming out Oct. 3)


#19

And, yes, I just hijacked my own thread. :stuck_out_tongue:


(KB Keto) #20

I appreciate the positive feedback and your enthusiasm about keto!

I will check those 2 out. (Actually watching the Doc right now) I would love to say I’ve read all the books on my list - i haven’t… but I do possess 2 currently and plan to read the ones on the list as I did more into things. The Art and Science of Low Carb Living has been excellent and am looking forward to the follow up in particular in regards to performance.

I hear more questions about how keto affects athletic performance than how i can eat that way and lose weight - which is great because it seems to me that it’s becoming more common that people understand that you can eat fat, cut sugar, and lose weight… whats less common is associating that weight loss with a way of healthy way of life and not just a diet to lose it and then go back to carbs because that’s what is really health (ugh)… and most people associate the necessity of carbs in athletics (thanks marketeeers!).