Ketonix acetone level higher after a meal than while fasted?

science
n1
ketonix
#1

I just finished a 17 hour fast, and then according to my ketonix, my ketones went UP after I ate a big keto meal. Is this common?

  • Ketonix acetone reading of 10.1 while fasted just before I ate. Then after I ate it consistently increased as the minutes passed: 20min - 12.2, 30min -15.1, 35min - 16.4, 40min - 17.8. I’ve run this test before with similar results.
  • This seems to indicate that I have higher ketosis AFTER my insulin rose a little bit (because I ate protein, nuts, and tomatoes).
  • Also seems to indicate that my body prefers burning fat from food over body fat – which I’ve never heard of. Perhaps it takes less energy to burn eaten fat over body fat?
  • The fact that the fat metabolism increased after eating means either my caloric needs weren’t being fully met while I was fasting, or else there was another source of energy besides my body fat that my body was using, and then switched it off after I ate, preferring the fat from my food.
  • Or maybe I am misinterpreting the ketonix results?

My meal was brie, mozzerella, eggs, chorizo, avocados, avocado oil, almonds, heavy cream, and small raw tomatoes.

Any thoughts, all you keto-smarties??

(Karl) #2

It was common for me. When you think the numbers should make sense, they don’t. A lot of times you expect a certain value, then get something completely opposite of what you expected, which puts you in a position of having to explain that discrepancy to yourself. It’s why I am now very much against testing for nutritional ketosis, and instead simply trusting the process. In my opinion, there’s no good reason to test. What’s worse, a lot of people buy these devices thinking they can increase their dietary flexibility by seeing how many french fries they can get away with before they get tossed out of ketosis. If anything shouts “BAD IDEA” to me, it’s that point alone :slight_smile:

So yeah, my experience with testing for nutritional ketosis made me very much against the practice. I’m just a guy who wants to be a healthy weight. I shouldn’t have to blow into a tube, pee on a stick or stab myself to do it.

So if anyone in northern NJ wants a free ketonix, I have one sitting in a drawer here. It’s 2 years old, but i’m sure it still works fine.

#3

Don’t like measuring, I hear ya. For me, once I figured out how to exhale short of dying into the ketonix I started getting consistent results and some interesting use out of it. While I’m not sure exactly how it translates into blood ketones, breath acetone as a trackable data point unto itself is pretty cool. I don’t think I need any more measuring instruments, however. My ketonix, my scale, and my measuring tape are plenty!

(Michael) #4

It is reassuring to see the Ketonix being used as a measuring tool that yields consistent results.

I wonder if your insulin did rise much. The carbs your consumed were probably used to replenish the glycogen store in your liver and never got into the bloodstream.

A large part of your meal basically consisted of exogenous ketones. Once digested these fatty acids and glycerol were absorbed into the blood stream. So what is the body going to do? Use, lose (in urine via kidneys) or store? As you are fat adapted your metabolic control system decided that it could use these ketones to fuel processes that were on standby waiting for an energy supply and your metabolism was up-regulated to use the fatty fuels in your bloodstream.

(Todd Allen) #5

When fasting your metabolism is a little suppressed and your ketone production is high resulting in a build up of blood beta-hydroxybutyrate. When you break the fast your metabolism picks up, digesting food takes energy, which increases the rate you metabolize your blood ketones back to aceto-acetate and then acetone. The insulin response of food inhibits lipolysis and the production of new ketones so blood ketones fall while breath acetone rises for awhile. Breath level of acetone will fall off after blood ketones drop fairly low.

(Lisa F) #6

Thank you for the explanation! I was seeing the same phenomenon…ketones in the 15-25 ppm range when fasted then jumping above 30 after breaking my fast.

I don’t get too caught up in the numbers…I rather like the tracking to see if I can figure out what’s going on. I just don’t gave the knowledge of the biology to back up my observations.

#7

Hi @brownfat, so are you saying that while you are fasting your body is building up more ketones than it uses? So my body waited until I ate a ton of fat before metabolizing more ketones? I wasn’t aware that your body conserves ketones while fasting.

There is also the phenomenon where acetone is released when aceto-acetate molecules spontaneously break down. I wonder if the extra beta oxidation of fatty acids created a big surplus of aceto-acetate that released acetone spontaneously?

…(Edit) Wait you mentioned that metabolism slows down while fasting. So you’re saying when the metabolism picks up, triggered by eating, there is an uptick of breaking down everything, ketones included?

(Todd Allen) #8

Fasting dramatically raises blood ketone build up as production goes up and utilization in muscles goes down. The rate the brain/CNS can utilize ketones depends on blood level and increased use of ketones lowers dependence on glucose allowing blood glucose levels to fall as sustaining blood glucose via gluconeogenesis from muscle protein is absurdly costly compared to running our brains on fat derived ketones.

When you break the fast ingested carbs and protein raise blood glucose diminishing the need for elevated blood ketones and frees the body to lower production while ramping up use by other tissues. Breath ketones measure the rate of use so these can remain high or even rise for a while as the blood ketone level falls.

#9

@brownfat Thank you for that!

(Rita Bertoncini) #10

I don’t understand what you wrote: it does not make sense.

(Rita Bertoncini) #11

Same with me except that if I start around 20ppm in the morning after 20h fast, I rise up to 90-100ppm + after meal, 4hs later, basically a 23-24h fast. I’ve been living on OMAD for almost two years and I am very thin.

(Todd Allen) #13

If you select the unintelligible text an option box to “quote” the text pops up which will incorporate the text in your reply so I will know what you are questioning.

(Rita Bertoncini) #14

" …and utilization in muscles goes down." really? where is the science?
“…frees the body to lower production while ramping up use by other tissues” I really do not understand this sentence. “other tissues”???
“Breath ketones measure the rate of use so these can remain high or even rise for a while as the blood ketone level falls.” This is precisely a restatement of the original question, not an answer.