Keto vs Low Carb?

#1

I decided to go keto but seems like I’m not physically and mentally ready to handle such a drastic change to my lifestyle
I’m thinking about going low-carb before I go keto. However I’m rather confused about the idea of a low carb diet.
Say I get 100 grams of carbs in a day. I’m definitely not in ketosis. My body won’t be burning fat or even might be storing all the fat I eat. At the same time I can’t pull enough energy from carbs either? Sounds like the worst situation I can have.
Does that mean I have to choose between a very low-fat diet or a ketogenic diet? No middle option?
How does a low carb diet make sense?

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #2

To some extent, the distinction between “ketogenic” and “low-carb, high-fat” is negligible. Any diet low enough in carbohydrate to be meaningful is going to be ketogenic.

The point to remember is that your carbohydrate threshold is unique. Some of us can tolerate more carbohydrate (by weight) than others. The 20 g/day limit promoted on these forums is low enough that practically everyone, except people who are severely metabolically damaged, can get into ketosis at that level. Carbohydrates are, for the most part, nothing more than strings of glucose molecules, which get severed in the digestive tract and sent, via the portal vein, as glucose to the liver to be managed. Glucose above a certain amount needs to be removed from the blood stream, to prevent the damage that hyperglycaemia can cause. The rise in serum glucose causes the pancreas to secrete insulin, which drives the excess glucose into muscles to be metabolised and into adipose tissue to be stored as fat.

Unless you eat below your carbohydrate threshold, your serum insulin is going to remain elevated, preventing fat from leaving the adipose tissue to be metabolised. If 100 g/day of carbohydrate keeps you out of ketosis, then you are not going to experience the benefits of a low-carb keto diet, such as reversal of Type II diabetes and reduction in stored fat.

It has been demonstrated using radio-labeled food that it is the carbohydrate we eat that ends up as fat in the adipose tissue. The fat we eat, especially the monounsaturated fat, gets metabolised. This is the reason we stress replacing the carbohydrate you have eliminated from your diet with eating fat to satiety. Fat is more calorie-dense than carbohydrate, so it takes less to satisfy us, and it also has the benefit of barely stimulating insulin at all (just enough to keep us alive). This makes it a “safe” source of calories, especially from the point of view of fat loss. It has been demonstrated that eating to satiety on a well-formulated ketogenic diet promotes the proper functioning of the appetite hormones, making the appetite a reliable guide to how much food to eat. People with excess fat to lose who eat a ketogenic diet to satiety find their appetite naturally regulating their food intake to a level that lets the body metabolise both the fat they eat and the excess stored fat that the body does not need. In fact, it has been shown that people can eat a considerably higher calorie count than they actually need, and the body will respond by ramping up the metabolism, creating waste heat, dumping calories in urine, etc. Conversely, eating too little food causes the body to lower the metabolism and shut down non-essential functions (such as hair and nail growth, and the reproductive system) until the famine is over, and food is once more abundant.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #3

You may find the following of interest. In fact, Amber’s entire ketogenic blog will likely interest you.

#4

Source please?

I’ve always seen it as carbs preventing fat from being burnt as fuel. I also doubt many overweight people are efficiently converting carbs into fat instead of pissing them out.

Diabetes means sweet urine.

(Bunny) #5

Fat is also stored as fat in adipose tissue when over eaten.

The same with carbohydrates they get burned up immediately depending on muscle volume to adipose volume.

As you loose muscle volume (oxidation rate) excess carbohydrates spill over into the blood stream and that’s when the problems start with fat storage.

So if you take fat and you eat it, you could oxidize it or you could store it?

Dietary fat is a kick starter or initialization tool to convince the body to burn it in the absents of sugar if you eat excessive amounts of it that’s all you’ll be trying to burn is the fat that your eating not the fat on your body?

If you keep shoveling coal into a steam engine, the steam does not care what your using to make heat and neither does the mitochondria, it just burns whatever is before it and the less mitochondria you have in adipose and skeletal muscle or liver to burn the fuel, the less you eat fat carbohydrates or protein.

There are some substances that will ncrease mitochondria in skeletal muscle like vanilla beans straight from the pod and bitter melon which puts mitochondria back (BAT) into the fat cells, those are just two examples, there are other compounds or substances that do the same.

Footnotes:

[1] “…The capacity to store lipid within the s.c. (SUBCUTANEOUS) tissue is the key to facing famine and limited caloric supply on the one hand and to handling excess calories on the other. In cases where s.c. fat reaches a threshold beyond which it can store no more, lipids may be shunted to other depots. In that scenario, lipids may be stored in less advantageous compartments such as the intra-abdominal (visceral) compartment, and in insulin-sensitive tissues that are prone to deposition of lipid in specific clinical scenarios. This may cause deposition of lipid within skeletal muscle and the liver, affecting their normal metabolic pathways. …” …More

[2] Is dietary fat burned before stored fat on a ketogenic diet? By Dr. Stephen Phinney and the Virta Team “…Certain fats, like medium-chain triglycerides found in coconut or MCT oil cannot be stored in body fat, so whatever is consumed must be promptly burned for energy. This means that if you’re adding these fats on top of your dietary fat consumption for satiety, this type of fat takes priority. For regular dietary fats, once they are digested, they enter the circulation and participate in what is called ‘fatty acid turnover.’ Whether fed or fasted, the body is always releasing, burning, and storing fat. When insulin is high, storage predominates, but turnover continues. When insulin is low, release and oxidation predominate. If you eat fat along with a lot of carbohydrates, it is prone to be stored. When fat is consumed in the context of a well formulated ketogenic diet, it — along with fat released from adipose stores — is prone to be burned. But once digested and absorbed, dietary fat and stored fat enter the ‘turnover pool’ and are in a constant state of mixing. …” …More

[3] “…High levels of uric acid inside the cell cause oxidative stress inside the mitochondria. The fat switch is turned on by this oxidative stress and the body switches from a fat burning mode to fat accumulating. It turns out that fructose is a master driver of the fat switch causing fat storing and insulin resistance. …” …More

#6

I don’t know about the science but low-carb was perfect for me for years. I had 80g net carbs and it was WAY better than high-carb (and I lost fat easily until some point). When I went keto later (smootly after my low-carb years, I couldn’t do it for 2 days before), the changes were minimal. Keto and low-carb felt basically the same. Fat adaptation was the game changer. And ditching plants almost completely.
It’s probably useful that if you break keto and go back to your former diet for a while, it’s not high-carb but low-carb… It was good for me :wink:
And it’s known low-carb works for many people. Surely not for all. Maybe it matters that fat was my primary fuel all my life…? So it wasn’t a shock to have not enough carbs for energy and I didn’t need to eat more fat than before either, not like that would be hard for me. Fat is my constant and a bit too clingy friend.
So if it sounds better for you, try it, it’s possible it will help, at least for a while.

No, you won’t store any fat (from your viewpont, not very temporarily) if you don’t overeat, it doesn’t make sense. Even HCHF can’t guarantee storing fat and low-carb is very different…
People gain fat on keto too if overeat, sometimes, it’s not common for multiple reasons but possible. It’s pretty normal and needed for many animals to make precious fat stores from fat, humans needed that too.

One uses up fat reserves outside of keto too, it’s obvious and we experience and see it. People lose fat on all kinds of diet. Ketosis isn’t needed and isn’t a guarantee to lose fat even if you have excess bodyfat. It helps but it doesn’t cause fat-loss directly, alone.

What middle option? You do low-carb and not keto but as you lower your carbs, you will go into ketosis, eventually. It’s individual at what point (and even exercise matters). 100g is way too much for nearly everyone.

#8

Hi Shinita Thank you for the reply! May I know your daily calorie intake too when you are on 80g net carb?

#9

It was 2000 kcal, sometimes a bit more when I ate about 80g net carb long term. For some reason, my body loves this amount, it’s natural for me to eat this much on a good enough diet (actual weight and activity level never mattered much but I hadn’t a big range). I never enforced this, I just tracked a lot, after I already ate. But I can go a bit lower if I minimize plants and certain fats, keto alone isn’t enough. Keto only makes overeating way less likely (and has some nice benefits), losing fat is another matter.

(ParisianDr) #10

Reducing your carbohydrate intake and replacing it with healthy ingredients is always a good idea. For me the question when I decided to reduce carbohydrates was more to start cooking so that the diet was fun to follow and healthier (because it was my goal: to have a healthier diet). So before starting the keto diet (3 years ago), I first followed the Paleo diet for 6 months in order to get used to cooking from scratch. The transition to the ketogenic diet was much easier than if I had jumped in directly.

#11

I had paleo for a month, yeah, it introduced some serious changes (not cooking, I always cooked for myself)… I quit added sugar, legumes (well just the dry ones, no one takes away my green peas), grains… It was very easy but I wasn’t ready for very low-carb yet. I did high-carb paleo before I realized I need to lower my carbs (and that some paleo restrictions are needless and tiresome for me) but I stayed close to it for long as many rules were fine with me. Yes, I can imagine it’s a nice temporal diet for many people towards keto (and some start with keto paleo. it’s probably usually low-carb though. or moderate-carb).

(charlie3) #12

I’ve been serious about diet and exercise for the past 2 years. For the weight loss phase 20 grams net carbs was managable. Where I am today is 50 grams net carbs with 280 calories total carbs which is 200 calories more than 80 calories on strict keto. Nearly all those calories come from non starchy vegetables. The extra carbs help me avoid diet fatigue and I figure I earned them with 2 hours a day of exercise activity.