Keto for 3 months - no change in glucose

(Christina) #1

Hi - I’m new here! :wave:. I love the podcast and have been listening for a couple of months (I’m only 3 months into keto). I have been dancing around in the pre-diabetic A1c range for almost 20 years (once was diagnosed “diabetic” as my fasting # was 130 - - super stressful morning that day) I have been hyper controlling of my diet, hence my simply hovering in the pre-diabetic range around the same A1c for all these years. I have followed a low (processed) carb (meaning no bread, chips, tortillas, pasta) diet for about 14 years and during that time I’ve been varying levels of vegan - vegetarian. For 3 years I did a raw vegan diet and did no labs, but lost 15 lbs. That diet is too hard to maintain! My vegetarian diet included rice, high protein pasta occasionally, lots of vegetables, fish, eggs and alternate protein sources. I was ALWAYS hungry! ALWAYS!

I am 5’4" and I think of my standard weight (reasonable lean weight with average muscle) as 105 because I am extremely small boned and hence much less of my weight is from bone than the average 5’4" person. I am currently 120 - and have weighed this for over 4 years. I carry a large roll of belly fat and also extra fat everywhere else, especially my thighs.

OK all that info shared: I have been strict keto for 3 months. No cheat meals, but occasionally a meal out that I don’t for sure know macros but try to choose something that seems keto. I have lost NO weight, and my fasting glucose is remaining steady at 110. My ketone level (only tracked for about a week with the included sticks) was around 1.2. No change in BS at all. I have played around with macro %s, calorie caps, etc (currently shooting for around 1200 calories a day, but I vary up and down on this). First week I wasn’t too hungry, but the hunger is back😔. I eat, and I’m hungry again in a couple hours. Especially at night I just don’t feel satiated. Is it my BS (and hence the insulin) causing me to remain hungry?? I read about success with IF and Fasting days, but I get a headache when I go longer than 4 hours without a meal (not that day - the next day). Example: I ate breakfast at 10 and dinner at 6 yesterday and I have a headache this morning.

Yes, I am in taking electrolytes (sodium, potassium., and magnesium). I am taking B vitamins, D, K, DHA, probiotics.

What can I tweak to get the BS down? Getting frustrated.

Thanks to anyone patient enough to read through all this and offer suggestions!

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #2

Did your glucose go down at all, when you first went keto? When do you measure? Could dawn phenomenon be at work? Do you measure at other times of the day? What is your glucose response to meals?

Is it possible you are eating carbohydrate that you don’t know about? If you post your typical day’s meals, including any supplements, that would help people to troubleshoot.

Also, we don’t recommend restricting calories. The body on restricted calories responds by lowering the basal metabolic rate and hanging on to its fat stores. If you are keeping your carbohydrate intake under 20g/day and keeping your protein moderate, then you should be getting the balance of your calories by eating fat to satiety. That will give your body enough energy to heal, while keeping insulin low enough to metabolize the excess fat.

All this said, bear in mind that women often have a different experience on a ketogenic diet from what men experience. Keep track of your body measurements, because women often put on muscle while burning fat, which confuses the readings on the scale. It is possible for your measurments to shrink while your scale weight never changes.

(Christina) #3

Thank you, Paul!

I was not measuring BS within a year before I started keto, because my results just don’t change much, unless I fast. My standard FBS over the last 5-6 years has been consistently between 100-120, so to me, the 110 is really not a change. Yes - I have major dawn phenomenon since becoming pre-diabetic. It often wakes me up too early (4 or 5 am) and my fasting BS has always been the most troublesome #. I have historically skipped breakfast because my BS is already so high. I think this has helped keep my A1c down.

No - I have not measured other times of the day, since I don’t feel that measurement is valuable to me other than making me not want to eat (historically).

My typical day would be this: 2 cups of coffee with 1 Tbl of HWC and Xylitol each cup, 2-3 eggs and 2-3 pieces of bacon for Breakfast (usually around 10 am after the 6 am coffee) , a lettuce wrapped cheeseburger for lunch (I shoot for 1/2 lb of beef), and short ribs with sugar free BBQ sauce and a salad with blue cheese dressing for dinner.

Regarding hidden carbs - I oversaw a strict elimination diet for my daughter 18 years ago and became a fanatic label reader. Rarely will I consume hidden sugar, but as I mentioned occasionally I eat out and yes I probably consume too much hidden stuff then.

I don’t generally follow the scale or test BS a lot, only to report those #s to others. Clothes fit completely the same and I would notice a change as this is usually how I assess the success of dieting. There is no change, but I do feel slightly more energetic (I suffer from CFS and Fibromyalgia, so general energy is extremely low)

I started with the standard keto of 5% carbs, 30% protein and 65% fat, with allowance to overshoot fat, but was feeling hungry and gaining weight (and my ketone reading seemed to be getting lower), so I switched to a 5% carb, 90g protein and remainder fat, with allowance to overshoot protein but not fat, and that does allow more satiety but is sort of hard to accomplish.

I feel that my electrolytes are a real challenge and am starting to think they have been a problem even way before keto, since I’ve stayed low processed carb, mostly consuming vegetables for my carbs. I’ve had headaches for years, and if I get enough electrolytes in during the day, no headache. I’ve always been a heavy salter, but the potassium is for sure off and hard to consume enough in a day. Other supplements are as I notrd: B, D, K, Dha, Probiotics, and also been taking Evwning Primrose oil. My electrolyte mix has C in it, so that too.

(Jenn Monaghan) #4

I think you should test your glucose after eating throughout the day. It is very common on this diet that people’s fasting glucose is the highest of all day, like mine, around 100-110. But then it goes down and never spikes up no matter what keto foods I eat. I hang out in the 80’s the rest of the day. My A1C is 5.2. So I do not worry at all about the slightly raised fasting glucose number. Those averages are all based off carb burners anyways.

(Sharon S ) #5

I am 68 yrs old and have been doing keto 1 week. I was very disappointed to see I only dropped 1 1/2 lbs. I walk for approx 30 minutes ea day and do some intermittent fasting.
I need to lose 80 lbs and want to get my glucose (108) and a1c (6.3) to lower levels.
Any suggestions on how to get the scale moving. I am trying to be mindful of carbs. Have some berries occasionally.

(Ken) #6

Sharon,

Be realistic. Keto is not magic, it’s lipolysis. Figure a one pound fat loss per week as normal. The overwhelming amount of people who report initial rapid fat loss are one’s who lost glycogen initially, and/or who were massively metabolically deranged with hyperinsulinemia that their reduction in insulin secretions allowed rapid loss. I was one of those, but even that evenyually turned into a pound per week after a few months. The nice thing is, 60 pounds of fat is two five gallon buckets, so you’ll be transformed in a year or so.

(Sharon S ) #7

Thanks. I will try and stay faithful and will hopefully start to see some better numbers soon. More interested in how I feel and my health. I am a cancer survivor and trying to protect my health. I do believe I have less joint pain and am less grumpy!

#8

Hi Christina,

I have had a similar pattern of good ketone levels but no weight loss for about 10 weeks. One of the kind members here mentioned to me the Glucose Ketone Index. I’ve been tracking this and making food adjustments accordingly, and I’ve found it to be very helpful. You’ll need a ketone/glucose blood monitor, but it might be worth the investment if you continue to not have the success you’d like.

Here is a link to an article on the GKI. There are several articles out there if you do a quick search.

https://www.perfectketo.com/what-is-glucose-ketone-index/

I have found that my weight is finally starting to come off if I keep my GKI numbers low. Previously, although my ketone levels were good, my glucose was never low enough to yield consistent weight loss.

Through tracking my GKI, some of the foods I’ve discovered raise my glucose are:

Dairy
Artificial sweeteners
Sweeter Keto-approved vegetables, like bell peppers

I’m not sure if these foods also impact you, but the GKI has been invaluable for figuring out what is holding me back.

Best of luck,

D

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #9

Not to worry, unless you think it might be part of the problem. (I don’t have the courage to grill the waiter about every last detail of the food preparation, so I do my best and don’t worry about it.)

My energy is also generally low, the result of a virus that really walloped me twelve years ago, but on keto I can actually spend the day mowing the lawn without having to rest up for two or three days afterward.

(Christina) #10

Thank you! I worry about my fasting number but I will test other times to see how my readings are.

(Christina) #11

Wow. Sounds to me like you are doing great! You don’t want to drop too fast - just keep on and Keto on the way you are!

(Ron) #12

Maybe this will easy your worries a little.:sunglasses:

(Christina) #13

D,

Thank you very much, I will keep that in mind. I went back and checked my readings for when I was testing ketones (only did it with the free tests strips so about 9 readings and 1 morning test fail) and my GKI is never below 3.8. I looked at my two good days, and they were days where I had a lot going on and didn’t have time to eat much (not sustainable on a daily basis) I have cut down on dairy a lot and was consuming very little at the time of the readings, and the only greens I’m consuming are leafy greens and celery. I think calorie reduction would help but then I get hungry, cranky, and I will cheat. I may just need to ride it out longer and let my body heal from all the years of excess insulin and glucose.

(Christina) #14

Ron,

Thank you! I have read this before and forgot about it! You and Jennifer both mentioned testing at another time and so I just tested (about 3 hours after dinnner) and surprise! Same as my morning readings! Ok so glucose could be lower but is remaining steady at 100-110. I’ll have to get more ketone sticks to test that. I haven’t tested in about a month.

(Christina) #15

Paul–what virus plagued you? EBV? If so, I am also a sufferer and hoping keto brings some healing.

(Omar) #16

It took me more than 6 months of low carb to bring my BG from 130 to 90

It is still gradual y coming down.

I am t2d my BG used to go over 200 even with metformin. Within 4 weeks of keto it stabilized at 130 without metformin.

It took another 6 months to come from 130 to 90.

I have seen many times lower than 90 and I think I have not seen the bottom yet.

I guess the longer the metabolism is wrecked, the longer the healing will take.

(Christina) #17

This makes sense, Omar - thank you!

(Randy) #18

The first thing that came to mind was to get your HbA1c done now that you’ve been keto for 3 months.

The last blood work before I started keto my A1c was 6, and fasting glucose was 95. After 5 months My A1c was 5.5 and my fasting glucose was 105.

An A1c of 5.5 is an average blood glucose of 111. That means that I probably have a ways to go to get my fasting glucose down in the 80’s, but overall my glucose control is very tight, and probably somewhere between 90 and 120 depending on when I’ve last eaten.

Also “google” adaptive glucose sparing.

(Christina) #19

Thank you, Randy. I am due to switch health plans on Sept. 1 and will have labs re-done then. I suppose my desires to see everything return to “normal” and to lose all my extra weight are a bit too lofty. Patience… I get it.

(Bunny) #20

Option 1:
“…For example you are going this and eating twice a day and you are getting headaches, add another meal because you are not ready to go to 2 meals a day. …” - Dr. Eric Berg

Option 2:
Need to eat a little bit of protein (maybe 1 or 2 oz. or less?) when feeling hypoglycemic/headache from not eating within a certain amount of time?

Option 3:
…and/or increase carbs in increments of 5 carbs per meal (until it works?) for hunger and headache issues?

Usually takes 6 months or so to be fully keto-fat-adapted?

Headaches?

Getting Headaches When Doing Keto and Intermittent Fasting? Dr. Berg talks about getting headaches on a keto (ketogenic diet) and intermittent fasting. This is a hypoglycemia (low blood sugar) situation, your cells have not yet adapted to running on ketones. The brain is the first organ affected by low blood sugars because it depends on glucose. We are going to talk about headaches in a relationship to doing Keto and Intermittent Fasting. This is really a hypoglycemic type of issue or the low blood sugar situation, your cells have not yet adapted to running on ketones, and you’re still running on glucose. If you implement intermittent fasting and you try to go in a long period of time, it drops the sugar. The problem is that low blood sugars add a tremendous amount of stress to the brain, central nervous system and the nerves overall. In fact, the brain is the first organ to be affected by low blood sugars because they depend on glucose. There is an alternative fuel called ketones but if you don’t know how to do it you are going to run in glucose and if you implement intermittent fasting, you are gonna crash and burn. Headaches are very common symptoms of hypoglycemia but to really know if your headaches are really connected to blood sugars, all you have to do as soon as you start getting headaches is to start to consume some protein because that should instantly improve your headaches and if it doesn’t then it could be another source. The solution to the headaches is to realize that it is a blood sugar thing and go into this more gradually. For example you are going this and eating twice a day and you are getting headaches, add another meal because you are not ready to go to 2 meals a day. If you are doing 3 meals a day maybe you might really need to add more protein. But again here’s the problem, medically speaking what they’ll do to hypoglycemia is they tell you to add more snacks like 5 to 6 meals a day which is a big mistake even though you’ll feel better, you’ll never correct the problem. You might go “wow, I had some fruit, protein, and I feel better” but if you are not working towards running your body on ketones you are still going to have the blood sugar situation because as soon as you eat, you are going to spike the insulin, it is gonna come down. Primarily because it is the frequency of eating that keeps the insulin very high and if you are trying to fix this problem, you are going to work towards going longer and longer without snacking. Snacking is just very quick fix, it is a temporary situation but we want to go longer without eating in general. The other bad advice would be to add some candy.

Intense Withdrawal Symptoms & Headaches When Keto Adaptating: Today Dr Berg will be talking about headaches and keto adaption. The main reason adaption doesn’t happen is because you feel something called withdrawal symptoms. Once your body is used to doing the same thing for so long your body is accustom to sugar, junk food, bread and etc then it a creates dopamine deficiency. To fix this issue you should slowly add more carbs to your diet, maybe 5 more at a time. You can take phenylalanine which is a natural amino acid that would help dopamine to reduce the withdrawal symptoms to make them go away.