Keto - binging - keto - binging gaah! Any tips?

#1

Hi all, I have been lurking this forum, so many great, inspiring posts!

I have been living LCHF/ low carb the past 10 years, and on/ off keto the past 2 years or so. I love being in ketosis, all the cravings just stop, and it is very easy for me to get into ketosis (I measure blood ketones), even after a sugar binge it is usually only 24 hours before I get around 0.5 mmol, and another 24 hour before I hot above 2 mmol. I enjoy IF, and most days I have a 8 hour eating window (11-19); if I for some reason am hungry, I will eat though, this happens maybe a couple of times a month. I eat pretty clean, we make almost all of our meals ourself, buying from organic farms etc.

I have never been overweight, but have had severe IBS and migraines which led me to this lifestyle a decade ago. IBS is almost gone, the same with migraines, yay! (And, even though I am not overweight, I much prefer the way I look when in ketosis of course - it does change the body, and I will gain around 5-10 kgs if I don’t eat low carb).

But. The koto is a cykle for me: 3-4 weeks of deep ketosis, feeling great, great sleep, no cravings. And then: SUGAR. Always supposed to be just once, but always stretching into days, sometimes weeks of extreme sugar binging. No question that I have an addiction; I have strategies to eat through the nausea causes by too much sugar, for maximum sugar effect
 Then, a tough first week returning to keto. 3 good weeks, and BAM, sugar again. Last year I was in ketosis for 4 months, and I felt so incredibly amazing! Lots of energy, happy, no cravings, looked good. But then it was Christmas, and I should just have one day with sugar. Well, not so much.

I have become very good at avoiding the sugar all around; co workers and family and strangers offering cakes and stuff, I never accept (partly because I am afraid of not being able to stop, and making everyone feel uncomfortable when I eat everyones cake). I just say that I don’t eat sugar, and if they keep on (“But you are not overweight! Have one slice, it wont hurt”), I tell them that a few years ago I was almost diabetic but changed my diet and now have normal blood glucose levels. This is not the problem. The problem is a random day at home, where I will suddenly go to the store and buy heaps of cake and candy, and eat it all in one sitting. It is almost as if I am trying to do it, before I find out. Like I am trying to trick myself into not noticing what is going on.

After, I feel horrible - physically of course, bloated, nauseated, knowing that days of cravings is ahead. It is very strange - when I am in ketosis, everything is nice and quit, no yelling for sugar. So WHY would I eat sugar???

I have tried to change the way I think about sugar. “I choose not to eat sugar, because I don’t like the way it makes me feel”, and to REALLY acknowledge that I truly AM an addict. But somehow I just keep ending up in this place. It makes it much harder than it could be to live like this. Truly, I fantasize about finally being 90 years old in the old folks home, being “allowed” to eat ALL THE SUGAR! In the world I think.

Also, I find it difficult in situations where I truly cannot avoid sugar/ high carb; for example, we are going to a very nice restaurant (Michelin-star nice), and they have a fixed menu. I have eaten there before, and know that they are very asian inspired with sugar in a lot of the dishes. But I want to have a life where I can do this very rarely (maybe 2 times a year), without it turning into a week long binge.

  1. Any tips on how to break this crazy cycle? Could there be some biological explanation? Like, the keto bugs in the intestine takes 5 weeks to build up or something? I don’t understand myself - I so enjoy being in ketosis, why would I keep destroying my progress this way after 3-4 weeks?

  2. Should I really accept that I can never, ever ever ever eat sugar again? No more Michelin restaurant for me? (I have to admit, writing this makes me think: “ooooh, then I could just have ONE last portion of sugar, the last ever in my life, the farewell-portion, great!!”). Ideally, I would like to eat out a couple of times a year, maybe fasting the next day, and then back to ketosis.

#2

I have zero experience of bingeing I’m afraid & I cannot be inside your head to know exactly why you do it with sugar but I can say from experience that it does take longer than 4 or 5 weeks for the sugar cravings to really go away. It can also take up to six months to really fat adapt.

Can you start by just trying to get over the 4 week mark? Instead of telling yourself that you can NEVER, EVER have sugar again just tell yourself ‘I’m going to give this a solid three months - I can do three months’.

If you give yourself a proper chance to adapt to fat you may find that you can do the restaurant thing a couple of times a year.

#3

Thank you - might be a solution to start with 3 months in stead of “forever”. Thanks! Also, after i wrote this I was actually a little bit shocked. It is very unhealthy, I think. It makes me wonder about the addiction. I would not expect an alcoholic to be able to drink a drink just twice a year. Hrrm.

(squirrel-kissing paper tamer) #4

As a sober person I can say what you’re describing does indeed sound like an addiction to sugar. I knew I felt better, stayed out of trouble, didn’t want _____ (insert addiction here) but once I got it in my head it became an obsessive thought until I gave in. It never occurred to me to tell it to shut up enough and it would slowly quiet down and go away until I learned how to.

I have cravings for sugar too but I am trained to listen to the “sober boss” voice in my head who says, “NO” before I can even finish the thought about the off limits thing.

This may sound crazy, but look into addiction techniques if you feel like you can’t control your urges. You may find some useful information. Getting mad or punishing yourself is counterproductive. Learning from your setbacks and trying again is the way to go.

Also, does it coincide with your period? May be take extra precautions during the times of feeling crumby.

(Running from stupidity) #5

:rofl:

(Laurie) #6

Hi Liv, I can relate so much to what you’ve posted. I’ll be back later with some thoughts!

(Bethany) #7

I can certainly relate. Binge eating is no joke, and you are not alone in this experience. I remember there was always this point when I would be eating and not want to anymore – I felt full, disgusted, and couldn’t even taste the food anymore – but I just couldn’t stop . It’s almost an out-of-body experience.

I have used eating (especially sugary foods) as a coping mechanism for so long that certain pathways in my brain need to be meticulously challenged and re-directed. Keto has certainly helped me – it takes away the sugar-dopamine effect, keeps me full longer, and helps to regulate a lot of the hormones I’ve learned play a big role in cravings. Still, keto is one of the multiple self-care tools available, and for me, works best in combination with other tricks.

In combination with the hormonal regulation of keto, the top tools that have helped me to break the cycle have been increased self-awareness and proactive self-care. More specifically:

  • When I feel a craving to eat ‘all the things!!!’, I try to pause and reflect: what else am I feeling/experiencing? Excited, discouraged, bored, restless, helpless, tired, deprived, hungry (sometimes even a person or place triggers it)
.
  • As I’ve noticed patterns of what brings on the craving, I’ve tried different techniques – listen to podcasts, walk/workout, research (for fun, because I’m crazy), call/meet someone, stop over-working myself, have tea with cream

  • 
 and when it’s a tough one, I eat as much as I want of fat, or even protein. Nobody more than a binge eater can attest to the physiological difference that fat, and even protein, have compared to sugars/carbohydrates on satiety levels, dopamine receptors, and more.
  • I also find focusing on the process vs destination helpful – the goal for me is to learn how to be more self-aware and healthy – not necessarily to ‘eat no sugar’. Everyone is different in how they’re motivated, but this helped me forgive myself when I ‘slipped up’ and then get back into healthy habits quicker.

I’ve been eating keto for over 3 years now. I still stay away from sugar, but mostly because I actually just don’t like it, and would prefer meats and cheeses! I’ve occasionally had a cupcake at a birthday, or sugary/carby food when offered while traveling internationally
 and it doesn’t trigger the same reaction as I would have before. I don’t become obsessed about having more, and I can focus on the moment and the relationships around it.

Every once and a while the habit still rears its ugly head, but I keep learning how to recognize and address it and become healthier and happier.

Everyone’s different, but hope my experience helps a bit!

(Laurie) #8

I understand about the sugar/carb addiction.

I can eat huge amounts too. I could never understand how someone could order ONE pizza for several people. Or why people would be offended if I ate all the candies in their candy dish. What? I’m not supposed to eat them?

I was successful with Atkins about 13 years ago, and then it was Christmas. I ate just turkey and vegetables, and then someone shoved a piece of pie at me, and someone else said, “Come on, it’s Christmas.” I’ve been struggling ever since!

I’m very susceptible to stress. I mean very. I try to carry on–continuing to work, or being polite to annoying people, or trying to be philosophical about something that went wrong. But it will usually manifest itself in a sugar binge. And it’s true about all the little mental tricks we play, like it won’t count if nobody sees us, or if it’s nighttime. Or we tell ourselves, Look at that person–eats any old crap and skinny as a rail or lived to be 100 or whatever.

I too look forward to the day when I can eat all the sugar and carbs I want. When I was in OA, the ladies occasionally mentioned a member who had died. She knew she was dying, but she stuck to her food plan and was proud of herself for doing so. I thought this was very strange.

I might never eat in a Michelin-quality restaurant, but I guess I’ll survive. We put values on certain things, but are they really important? A lot of it is habit, and some of it is how we define ourselves. I myself have been looking forward to going to Costco and having a Polish sausage WITH THE BUN. I rationalize that the bun is necessary to hold the sauerkraut, hot peppers, and onions on the sausage. But you know what? This dream is fading away.

I’ve heard alcoholics say that all their friends drink, and if they stop drinking they won’t have any friends. But if they do stop drinking they gradually find other friends. Keto eating has certainly affected my social life. When I have out-of-town guests I tell them they have to figure out their own food (e.g., eat in a restaurant or get some yogurt from the grocery store), because I can’t eat with other people. It is a bit sad, but it’s worth it to me. I also don’t celebrate Christmas, partly for food reasons.

Bla bla.

So, to answer your two questions:

  1. First, maybe you aren’t really convinced that you need to do this. You’re convinced, but only 3 weeks worth. Maybe the benefits aren’t really enough for you. Or maybe you don’t have clear goals. Ask yourself whether you really want to do this, and why.

-Second, maybe you haven’t learned to manage stress and stressors. Do certain things happen at certain times? Is there anything you can do about it?

-Third, I’ve learned to sit with my cravings. Sometimes I just sit there for a couple of hours thinking about food. And then I stop thinking about it and I’m okay.

-Fourth, have lots of appropriate foods around, such as cream cheese, bacon, etc.

-Fifth, stop going to the store. I hadn’t been to the store for months because of mobility/transportation problems, and when I finally went, I spent lots of money on unnecessary stuff. It wasn’t carbs, but still, I was amazed at the whole store phenomenon. Maybe plan some other activity for each time you want to go to the store, such as posting to these forums, or doing some physical activity, or vacuuming :astonished:.

-Sixth, make a firm commitment for a somewhat longer period, such as 3 months. Mark it on your calendar, or promise yourself a non-food reward (a new clothing item or a trip), or simply start your own Accountability thread here.

  1. Maybe. Do you want to be a slave to sugar forever? Is eating in a certain restaurant really that important? Only you can decide. And if you do decide to have only one [whatever], can you really get back on the horse the next day? As others have suggested, maybe just do this one day at a time, or one month, or three months. We all change over time, and this includes developing new strengths and new priorities. There’s no telling what you or I will learn in the next three months!

Good luck.

(Not a cow) #9

I don’t think you are ready to eliminate sugar forever. In fact, unless you are a cold turkey kind of person, you may never eliminate it completely, but I am quite impressed with what you have accomplished so far.

Since you have discovered a method to reduce your IBS and Migraine symptoms, I’m sure the thought of those symptoms returning will help you manage your sugar consumption in the future. IMO you are just missing a plan to keep on reducing sweets from your diet, so make your goals achievable, but difficult, but not so difficult that you won’t have a reasonable chance to succeed. Not being able to eat those things that you want, at least at the moment, is not reasonable.

As Dr Peterson says in Rule # 4 Compare yourself to who you were yesterday, and not to who someone else is today. Starts at 25:45 to 37:20 12 Rules for Life

#10

Maybe try an OA meeting
(overeaters annonymous)

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Alcoholics anonymous has certainly changed my life. 12 step programs have a lot to offer.

#11

This sounds right - I will try to look into “real” addictions. Alcoholism runs heavily in my family, thankfully my drug of choice is sugar and not alcohol. And it had not occur to me with my period! Doh! I must track this, thank you!

#12

Thank you so much - very good advise. I will re-read this for sure. Interesting thought about having the proces as a goal.

#13

Thank you for a very good answer! Lots of things to think about!

Yes me too! Is my first reaction - but, then again; I really would not eat all the sugar even if I was old/ dying, because I feel terrible when I do. I am irritated, tired all the time, swollen, no energy at all.

(Also the restaurant - it is a work thing, and oooh yes, I look forward to it. To me, these types of restaurant is just as much a theater as food. Maybe I just feel it is so important to participate in the same way an alcoholic does not want to go to a restaurant if he cannot have wine?).

(Full Metal KETO AF) #14

I was completely addicted to sugar and carbs 4 months ago. I had several health issues including post transplant diabetes starting to develop. For me keto is not a diet but my new lifestyle. I have had great improvement health wise since starting. I use a little allulose or erythritol in some cooking for a salt balancing tool. These two sugar alcohols don’t have any carbs and really taste like sugar. I haven’t felt the need to make keto treats as of yet. Have you tried using these sweeteners to give yourself a break from the regular daily foods and make some coconut flour pancakes or a muffins occasionally? Once I got through about 4 days of withdrawal and keto flu I felt better and that told me how serious sugar addiction is. Much like quitting opiates which I have also done. I used to wake up at 1 or 2 am twitching and restless just like opiate withdrawal. I had to eat some bread or crackers to calm my muscles down. Restless limb syndrome has become a thing of the past for me now.:smiley:

I just figured that I ate bad food for 59 years and I had had enough. Now I eat to live, instead of living to eat. Lost 25 lbs since I started and blood sugar fasting levels have dropped from over 200 to 135 last month. I expect to be in the normal range soon.

Listen to your body telling you that you felt better without sugar.

#15

Thanks David - I guess there is still hope, when other sugar addicts have succeeded :slight_smile:

I have started using Erythiol actually, just a few months ago. Up until then I thought it would be better to avoid all things sweet. But then I just end up eating sugar. It definitely helps, I have avoided eating sugar by having a handfull of frozen raspberries and add coconut cream and a little bit of erythiol. It tastes very much like icecream, it is filling and I don’t get kicked out of ketosis :slight_smile: This weekend I made a Gateau Marcel with erythiol as we were having guests. It was very good, and nobody noticed (and I was still in ketosis, yeah!).

(Full Metal KETO AF) #16

Some food preparation doesn’t go as well with erythritol as allulose which is almost double the price. Allulose will cook into a simple syrup and also Caramelize for browning or candy. Erythritol has a limit on how much can be suspended in water, it will not dissolve more than a 2:1 ratio. In other words 1/2 cup of erythritol and 1 cup of water. I found this out the hard way making a huge batch of Cowboy Candy, or candied Jalapeños. The erythritol recrystalized as the stuff cooled down so the have a sugar crystal type crunch to them. Still eatable but not the syrupy texture that I wanted. Next time I will try allulose, which would be better for anything like low carb ketchup, bbq sauce or jam.