Keto and cycling one year on

#21

I have been working on increasing my cadence for that reason. I did my first MAF ride after work yesterday. Hour and fifteen minutes at 112-122 HR. This was slow. I felt good after ride and I quess the point is you can probably ride like this pretty much every day with out much recovery. I will continue to do my fast rides on weekend with friends because it is fun and competitive but any riding I do by myself I will do MAF for awhile to see how it goes.
I also noticed you did not use any Vespa on this last big ride. Did you feel you did not need it? Did you just nibble on the Jelly Bellies throughout ride or did you down them all at once.=?

#22

Ian Iooking at some of your recent rides on Strava it appears you let HR get pretty high. Have you stopped doing MAF or do you only do it for certain amount of time a year?

(ianrobo) #23

OK a lot of points there and good ones.

On my long rides I did use Vespa every 4 hours but one ride lost a packet so missed out !

Yes the training you mentioned is spot on, it is about training and not burning out that is Key to MAF.

As for HR because of Keto and what Peter Defty/Steve Phinney said then HR will be higher as fat oxidation uses more resources to get energy, remember carbs are quick and dirty and @Richard has mentioned this.

In training I do try and keep to the HR, check my rides out during this week for example, peaks will happen in cycling because unlike in running, walking up hills are not an option !!

However try and pick up Peter Defty’s interview with Brad Kearns on a Podcast - Primal endurance, that was so informative as Peter said in his view MAF HR can be up to 15 beats a minute higher.

On the big rides I ride deliberately at an higher HR as the aerobic base we have allows us to do that.

Super High HR!
(Karl L) #24

Thanks for the great exchange here; I’m learning a lot! I’ve been dabbling with MAF, but I know that’s not how it works. I’m 58, but on a mtn bike can see a max HR north of 180, so ‘running’ at 122bpm seems ridiculously slow, and involves a LOT of walking. Not sure I could do it on a bike.

(ianrobo) #25

oh you could as you would go into very low gears and that increases the aerobic fitness by spinning more. It is tough for sure and those who advocate MAF say if you have to walk, walk … however for cycling this is not an option so you just ramp back on the power. For climbs not a lot can be done but most of my training is on the flat and any hills are no more than 750M or so.

(aircraftwelder) #26

ya same here.

(What The Fast?!) #27

Really interesting guys!

I’ve been keto for 3.5 months and I’m definitely not riding as well as I was before. I tried fasted rides a handful of times and my b/f pointed out that my performance really suffered. (I was bummed about that because I was looking forward to fasted riding.)

As of this week, I went Zero Carb (no veggies at all) and am really interested in seeing how it affects my riding. My b/f’s riding has been good on keto but he allows himself more carbs than I do. He’s not afraid to have a big spoonful of nut butter before a ride.

I want to try MAF but we live in area where there are basically no flat rides, so I don’t have much of a choice with my HR.

We did a 26 mile ride on Saturday with 1800ish feet of climbing with inclines from 2-10%. I majorly dragged up those hills. The other thing I’m noticing is that I’m staying sore for longer after a ride or even a yoga class. Anyone else experiencing this? I’m supplementing with salt, mag, and potassium. (Also - calf cramps during rides and at night!!)

Would love your thoughts @ianrobo @Sasquatch16

(ianrobo) #28

Thats interesting that you state you are more sore after rides than I presume you were after being a carb burner ?

I presume after 3.5 months you feel you are fully Keto/fat adapted and performance should have recovered in time. With your HR have you compared rides before and after the change to see if any major difference there ?

You should see for the same ride your HR is between 5-10 bpm higher as it takes more energy to oxidise fat and a sure sign you are fully fat adapted.

#29

Andrea I have been Keto for about 5 months and have been trying a lot of different things to get my performance back to what it was before Keto. I think part of it for me was I lost to much weight to fast and have lost some muscle along with fat. What I am doing know is taking in small amount of carbs the mornings I ride with my friends who are pretty fast. This seems to help some and I do not think it knocks me out of ketosis because they are burned right away. Do a Google search on TKD (targeted ketogenic diet.)

#30

Andrea regarding the calf cramps I had the same problem. Combination of magnesium and apple cider vinegar has taken care of them.

(ianrobo) #31

now of course has your FTP w/kg gone up though ? weight is all in cycling of course and even if lost top end power, lost more weight you should still be at an higher level

(What The Fast?!) #32

Yes, HR is up a bit, but speed and power are down.

@Sasquatch16 Yep, I’ve seen TKD. I’d like to avoid carbing up before a ride, but it seems like I might need to. I’m trying to find ZC athletes and cyclists to hear how things affect them.

On regular keto, I didn’t lose any weight, so I know it’s not that. However, I have lost about 4lbs this week on ZC.

#33

Unfortunately w/kg is still slightly lower giving me no better results climbing even though I have lost 35 lbs.

(ianrobo) #34

So I wonder what has happened with you as you would have dropped a fair bit of power then with no recovery ?

#35

That is the 64 dollar question. I was thinking of doing an FTP test taking carbs before hand to see if it makes any difference. I do my FTP tests on a Wahoo kicker under controlled conditions. The kickr correlates pretty close with my power meter. I have only been cycling about 3 years. I have watched my FTP go from 210 up to 257 this January down to 215 just recently. Only difference is diet. Unfortunately I work 10 hrs a day with some travel so it does not leave a lot of time to work out. Has been this way all along. I am going to try and get in some short trainer rides at a lower HR during the week to see if this helps at all. Going to try and lose another 20 lbs or so then I might start taking in a few more good carbs. Up in the air right now what to do.

(ianrobo) #36

The loss I would expect, I went from 275 to 230 then now 280 or so but recovered most of the losses after 2 months of being what I thought was fat adapted.

Certainly if you took carbs before another attempt you could be higher but that only works if you take carbs before any longish ride you do.

Have you tried to put in some Z4 power sessions ?

#37

Looking at your Strava you do way more riding than I do and that has to of helped you. I started in Feb. when the weather was bad and was pretty lazy with the trainer so that did not help.
I am in a lot of Zone 4 on weekend rides that I do. This is why I am going to try and stay more aerobic during the week. Spent a good bit of time reading the Vespa website about OFM and am going to increase my HR some. I also bought some Vespa just to give it a try. Can’t hurt.
What I am finding recently if you look at this Strava file it is my leg strength is giving out before my aerobic capacity. https://www.strava.com/activities/1086139051

(ianrobo) #38

OK one thing to mention is to work on your cadence, I made a conscious effort 6 months ago o work at lower gears and increase cad. Cad is vital for aerobic fitness and allowing less muscle endurance. IMHO your average there of 72 is too low and need to aim for 80 or more.

#39

I have definitely been working on that. Last FTP test I did closer to 90. What is deceiving in Strava is the average which takes into account the very low cadence dragging my 245 lbs. up hills. I have a 50/34 crank with an 11-32 cassette and sometimes I am still grinding away at 60 rpm.

(ianrobo) #40

ah but that is exactly why you need to work on cadence … find a 10KM flat stretch and aim for average of 100 a a low ear. Does bloody wonders I tell you