Karim's muscle gain carnivore adventure


Wow, that’s scary and it hadn’t occurred to me that one could actually gain while fasting. How long did you typically fast? What was the duration of your longest fast? Did you feast between fasts?

(Karim Wassef) #342

Day 14

I feel great! The carnivore “warmth” has returned (cold is banished again). If I’m in the 3-6GKI corridor this morning then I think I’m in the right balance.

Looks like I’ve lost 0.8lbs since yesterday 179.8 to 179, but that 179.8 was water retention from the day before at 179.6… so looks like 0.3lbs pet day lost over the past two days which is also on track.

I’ve been weighing out every meal and every scrap of food which is ridiculous… I hate it. My wife thinks it’s hilarious that I meter out 37g of liver and make sure to wipe away all the onions so I get every last gram I’m due.

I think that losing body fat above 20% is different that in the 10%~20% and then different again sub-10%… I never needed to worry about my RMR or protein intake or fat above 20%… it was simple. Eat <20g carbs… don’t eat when you’re satiated. Maybe eat once a day… boom 20% bf down from 40%…

But to get really lean, my body is resisting. I was always a bit thick bodied, even as a teenager. I haven’t been lean since I was a small child and my body has no set point that low. So it’s like going back in time to my earliest development and looking out into the metabolic void… me and my body, we haven’t been here before.

I did manage to get to 18% through extended fasting but lost muscle. Not doing that again. It (my body) pushed back hard after that.

So this balanced protein high fat metered out stage feels like a necessary bridge.

Ok- data incoming but I’m opening up more to get some ideas flowing … :smiley:

(Karim Wassef) #343

Day 14 data

So actually lost more than I thought. Over the past 2 days, I lost 1.4lbs.

Ketones high and glucose good, so GKI at 1.8 which is actually much lower than I expected… I might have to up my fat some more? Need to think about this given that my overall weight (both fat and lean) is lower than predicted at this point. My bf% is on target, but smaller overall than I want:

(Karim Wassef) #344

so 1.2lbs less than I expected overall and 0.9lbs less in lean mass, in spite of working out hard and eating over 0.8g / lb lean mass protein…

This ties out with the higher ketones and lower GKI… just too catabolic… I’ll try and retool for more protein again to avoid lean mass loss.

I’m going to target 1g/lb lean mass and up my fat again…

so the plan update:


and that would look like this:

(I'll trade you my bacon for your cheese) #345

Hope you have a safe trip tomorrow!!

(Ilana Rose) #346

I think a big error that you are struggling with is that you are assuming that your day to day lean mass changes track with changes to muscle fibre mass and they needn’t be at all. Even dexa scans are fairly useless in this regard. They are good for fat mass, and bone mass but just conflate all other mass into fat free mass. This isn’t the same as muscle tissue. More importantly, you can expect that this would vary independently of muscle fibre change with dietary changes.

(Karim Wassef) #347

Agreed. I still don’t want to lose non-fat mass. I’ve been a big guy all my life and don’t really like being so light… not sure if that makes sense for other people but I just like my mass… in a different composition.

So do you think I should I increase my protein intake to compensate for the faster than expected loss ?

(Karim Wassef) #348

If I could be 255lbs again but at 10% bodyfat, I’d do it even if it did shorten my life a bit. LOL!!

(Karim Wassef) #349

If I wasn’t traveling for the next 10days, I would have run an experiment where I add 10g protein each day and see the effect on glucose and ketones and the GKI.

I think there’s a balancing point but I’m always just a bit off… either too catabolic or the wrong kind of anabolic.

In China, I’m taking a mini-scale with me just so I can track large excursions and my compact Glucose / Ketone monitor too. Just no detailed composition data. Still all restaurant food with unknown sauces will be “complicated”

I’ll take pictures and you all can join me in my uncertainty. Taiwan should have sashimi though :slight_smile:

(Ilana Rose) #350

No. Not yet at any rate. You are making these changes too quickly and not allowing any equilibrium to be reached. You don’t actually know that you are losing anything as opposed to just your body’s natural readjustment of things like glycogen stores, blood plasma volume, organ size, etc, etc in response to significant macro adjustments.

(Karim Wassef) #351

My glucose and ketones are pretty fast to react to dietary and activity changes.

When I dropped my protein from 250g to 100g, it reacted in 24hrs. When I increased fat, it also reacted in 24hrs.

It’s true that the composition data is probably wrong.

I’ll make changes more slowly. Today is the last ribeye before I get on the plane tomorrow morning… well, the last one I can weigh and cook myself anyway :smiley:

I’ll probably fast on my flight and then have sashimi in Japan on the way to Taipei. I’ll have two bison burgers and 3 eggs for breakfast which breaks OMAD but time is all going to be a mess anyway.

Travel pictures incoming :laughing:

(Ilana Rose) #352

I’m jealous of your sashimi! One of the extreme downsides of small town living is no good sushi places. I’ve got to figure out if I can make my own somehow.

(Karim Wassef) #353

You need a good source of sashimi grade fish. That’s it, really.

I found a place that supplies many of the sushi restaurants in Dallas and I’d go buy full fillets directly.

But then the sashimi buffet was actually less expensive and it’s a much broader selection.

The best I ever had was on a boat fishing for small tuna - Bonito… we’d literally eat it right after catching it with a little lime, soy sauce… it was so fresh, literally sea water temperature - warm and soft.

(Karim Wassef) #354

I’m actually doing my Friday morning 15hr dry fasting today so that conversation did not help!

(Karim Wassef) #355

Post dry fast, I was 67G, 2.2K = 1.7GKI

it’s hard to believe that I had a ribeye that was close to one pound just last night and I’m already catabolic … even the total calories were near 2000 and my RMR is 2400… it’s true that when I’m active, it’s more like 3100 but still, catabolic in less that 17 hours?

I’m also crazy sore today. Arms and chest are just tight and painful.

I might not lift today… too many things to do before the flight. Maybe I’ll sneak it in at home instead and just sauna at the gym.

(I'll trade you my bacon for your cheese) #356

You’re welcome.

(Karim Wassef) #357

Cute… I’m old enough to remember it

This kind of bonito

(I'll trade you my bacon for your cheese) #358

You can always count on me to provide barely related feedback, and unstatistical commentary on statistics.

(Mario) #359

one important thing that comes with a proper workout - is a time to relax!

there is no other way for your body to grow. take a rest, and take air!

heavy soreness, especially with keto, you can use magnesiumchloride with water. google it first, if you dont believe! its hard to believe anyway… google it!

10gr mg-chloride with 300ml water. shake and spray on your skin. your body grabs through skin as much as he needs! you also can drink it, but you will end up like every one else with too much magnesium in his stomach - on toilet!

if/when you start mg-oil on skin, watch your mood now and in a few weeks, and btw you will enjoy your workouts much more

(Karim Wassef) #360

I do use a mg spray! But mostly for stress relief

I take a lot of Mg and potassium and take salt when I lift… a pinch between each set.