Karim's Extended Fast Tracker - come along for the ride


#241

I actually had 3 Hernias in total, but only knew of the Abdominal one, until they performed the surgery and found I had two smaller ones. … Had the Hernia for about 8 to 10 years, so it has nothing to do with diet, etc. Hernia’s are brought on most commonly from heavy lifting, as was mentioned above, but can also be caused from other things, such as sneezing, coughing, straining on the toilet too long, etc.

The thing was, when I switched over to this WOE/WOL, I had lost 87 lbs. in just 7 months, so when it would push outward, I could simply apply some light pressure and it would retract back in. Apparently, when I lost the weight, which quite a bit was from my stomach area, it apparently was helping to keep the Hernia in check, i.e., keeping enough inward pressure, keep it from pushing outward regularly. So
before losing the weight, it would push out occasionally, but not regularly. … After losing the weight, it would at times continuously keep popping out, and would not stay in no matter how much I pushed it back in. … So it wasn’t long before it finally got incarcerated (stuck outside the stomach lining) and it completely blocked my system, so nothing could get through. (Note, from speaking with my surgeon this was not my intestines that got stuck, but a lining of fat that lines the stomach internally. But this is what got stuck outside the stomach and blocked me up. (A Hernia is just a tear in the abdominal wall)

Some can/do live with Hernia’s their entire life without requiring surgery, but they should be monitored so they don’t become worse. They can be life threatening, if not addressed when they get incarcerated. Any food consumed will not be able to pass through the digestive system, so will simply back up until it gets to a point, where one will start throwing these consumptions back up, being they can’t get through.

Lastly, if this helps anyone, if you know you have a Abdominal Hernia (Which is generally located just above the belly-button, usually slightly to one side or the other) one should first get it checked to see if it can just be monitored, or if it is already at a state where something needs to be done before it causes a life threatening situation. But you can also use a Hernia Belt, which is similar to a back brace or lifting belt, commonly seen by those lifting weights or heavy lifting at work. This does similarly (actually better) then what having the extra belly weight was doing for me. … This keeps a constant inward pressure on the stomach, helping to keep anything from slipping through the Hernia on the stomach lining.

For the record, an incarcerated Hernia will be when it pushes outside the Abdominal wall, and you can’t get it to go back in. Basically it knots up or entangles to the point where it can’t be pushed back through the tear itself. And sometimes, you can even push it back through, and it stays knotted. Either is bad. (And lastly, just an FYI. Hernia’s do not ever repair themselves. They may stay manageable, but only surgery can correct them once it occurs. Smaller ones may not even be noticed. Hope this is helpful.


(Windmill Tilter) #242

Thanks a bunch for this. This is really helpful info. Definitely something I’ll keeping an eye out for!


(Windmill Tilter) #243

I had a bit of a think on this. One problem that occured to me is that the body will still prefer to use glycogen stores for steady state cardio. Certainly most of that is gone by now, but I wonder how large of an “emergency” supply is retained. I don’t know that such a glycogen reserve exists at all, but if it does and it get’s depleted by steady state cardio, that might cause the opposite effect and trigger even more glucose demand, increasing protein catabolism rather than reducing it. Just a half-baked idea but I thought I’d throw it out there…:yum:


(Little Miss Scare-All) #244

Happy to see Karim’s still alive and kicking!

Is your DEXA tomorrow? I forget and there’s so much to scroll through that I don’t want to do any work to find the answer lol.


(Karim Wassef) #245

DEXA is tomorrow.

High intensity uses glycogen. Low intensity uses ketones. Brain uses glucose and ketones. That’s where my unfortunate conclusion came from…

The lifting is valuable hormonally - both growth hormone and testosterone. It also triggers mToR so it guides the effect of the Leucine… but it won’t pull on ketones like cardio will.

But keep in mind that whether it’s heavy lifting or the brain, the glucose demand can be satisfied with either proteins or fats.

My theory: The problem is when ketones are so elevated that the body’s feedback basically stops generating more ketones. Glucose cannot (to the best of my understanding) be made from ketones. It can only be made from fat or protein.

So what can the body do? If it uses fat, it exceeds the ketone threshold… won’t do that. So, for the extra bit of glucose, it goes to protein… as little as it can get away with.

My thesis… so, if I reduce my ketones by using them (cardio), it frees up the body to go back to ripping up lipids to make ketones out of the fatty acids and glucose from the glycerol backbone… and ketones will rise, and glucose will equilibrate… and fat will be consumed without resorting to breaking down protein.

So I’m actually “not” autophagic… I’m intentionally trying to spare lean mass to bias the reaction toward fat oxidation.


(Windmill Tilter) #246

I’m not sure that’s true, but then again most of this stuff goes over my head so I’m not sure it isn’t true either. :yum:

Check out this Phinney & Volek article about ketogenic ultra endurance athletes. It compares the rates of fat burning and glycogen burning between athletes who normally eat carbs vs keto. The keto folks burned through as much glycogen as the carb folks during the 3 hr endurance test conducted at a leisurely 64% of VO2max.

Even if I’m misread it and I’m wrong about that, the article is definitely worth reading. The mitochondria of keto ultra-marathoners may as well be from another planet! They’re oxidizing over 1g of fat per minute! These guys are really pushing the limitations of what is humanly possible metabolically. :+1:

3.5. Muscle Glycogen

Compared to baseline, muscle glycogen was significantly decreased by 62% immediately post-exercise and 38% at 2 hours post-exercise in the HC group. The LC group exhibited a similar pattern; muscle glycogen was decreased by 66% immediately post-exercise and 34% at 2 hours post-exercise (Fig. 6A). There were no significant differences in pre-exercise or post-exercise glycogen concentrations between groups. There was a high degree of variability in muscle glycogen concentrations pre-exercise in both groups. In contrast, the depletion and resynthesis patterns showed a more uniform response, especially the amount of glycogen synthesized during the 2 hour recovery period in LC athletes (44.8 ± 7.5; 95% CI 40.2–49.4 μmol/g w.w.), which was one-third less variable than HC athletes (34.6 ± 23.9; 95% CI 19.8–49.4 μmol/g w.w.) (Fig. 6B).


(Little Miss Scare-All) #247

Are you excited about your DEXA tomorrow? I know I wouldn’t be able to sleep if I were putting in the effort you are. I’d be so interested in seeing the results and fearful that they’re not what I anticipate lol.


(Karim Wassef) #248

That article actually makes my point. Endurance uses ketones… marathon is low intensity long haul. That’s the cardio.


(Karim Wassef) #249

I am excited and very curious.

So many assumptions that could be validated… or destroyed :smiley:

I’m a data junky… can’t wait to get my hands on all that juicy data and make sense out of it all.


(Little Miss Scare-All) #250

Im excited to see your results. I hope theyre even better than you expect!


#251

That’s a shame. I lose a lot of respect for experts who are supposed to be reputable, but who ignore evidence that doesn’t fit their narrative. It’s disturbing that the Biggest Loser participants never had their metabolism improve. It makes me wonder if that would be the case if they were eating in ways that controlled insulin. I’m really hoping that the explosion in popularity of keto and fasting will spawn more comprehensive and widespread study of this subject.


(Karim Wassef) #252

There’s an outrageous money machine in the current food, exercise and medical industry around metabolic disorders.

It will be extremely difficult to change - it’s literally a revolution against the oppression of the greedy who will choose their pocketbooks over the health and longevity of millions.

Off the soapbox…


(Karim Wassef) #253

Ok. Went to the gym with 71G and 7.2K… left after lifting, cardio and sauna with 44G and 6.0K.

It was over 1.5hrs so I suspect my ketone may have even dipped further and been replenished and that was my goal.

More pain in my sides… need that connective tissue holding my abdominal organs to stay intact as I lose the fat :smiley:


(Windmill Tilter) #254

That’s a fair point. I won’t hold it against him too much though, he’s given an awful lot to the LCHF community. In fairness to him, he was at a conference filled by lecturer after lecturer extolling the virtues of fasting. I think Dr. Phinney was just trying to add the counterargument that fasting is not without risks. He’s not wrong about entirely wrong about that I think, even if I’d argue that someone of his stature needs to be a bit more careful in presenting a balanced version of the facts.

The reason I bought a indirect calorimeter was that the risks and unknowns of fasting concern me. Although there is lots of data about folks fasting for the first time, nobody has ever published data on what happens the second time, let alone the 10th. I’m on my 12th three day fast since January.

I suspect the metabolism adapts to fasting, and we’re seeing the various ways it adapts with Neil’s data (the guy who fasted 5 days a week for 5 months). Nothing alarming yet, but I think it’s prudent to approach something as powerful as fasting with caution, and to watch it carefully for metabolic changes. The Biggest Loser study is never far from my mind. :slight_smile:

I’m not sure that it would have. Extreme calorie restriction alone can cause considerable metabolic damage. Extreme exercise can cause metabolic damage. Combining the two is about the most destructive thing you could possibly do. Your putting incredible stress on your metabolism at precisely the moment you’re demanding more from it than you have ever asked. Doing that for six months is unconscionable. I’ve seen some similar stories here on the forum. One woman was a professional personal trainer and live-in keto coach who worked out 2hrs a day, and had 9% bodyfat. That was great until her metabolism crashed to 1100kcal/day unbeknownst to her and she couldn’t fix it. Mixing severe calorie restriction with excessive exercise is very dangerous. Fasting looks tame by comparison.

I limit myself to 15 minutes of exercise per week a week (resistance training). I do the Body by Science workout from Dr. McGuff. That’s probably way too conservative, but I’d rather err on the side of caution.


(Karim Wassef) #255

Well… I don’t think it’s about pushing body too hard.

When the body breaks, it’s because of misuse… consider military training or sherpas who train for extreme conditions or iron man contenders… pushing isn’t the problem.

It’s when you push it into breaking by sending the wrong hormonal signals and causing damage to your biology. Dr Fung does a good job explaining this. The body really has NO idea what you just ate or how much you just ate. All it knows is the chemical signature of the foods you put in. When you’re in a caloric deficit but eat a small volume of carbs and proteins… it basically gets the signal that you’ve got plenty of energy to work with… and even starts storing it… and then you run out. Unfortunately, with that high insulin, it can’t unlock it… then you exercise heavily and deplete all glycogen and glucose crashes and it needs emergency glucose NOW to avoid dying. It’s not fat adapted and so it burns EVERYTHING down…

Do that for a month and your body becomes a broken shell of itself and metabolically extremely conservative. It’s looking to protect you from future such disasters and that means it will consume nothing if it can. Even if you refeed… it remembers! It knows the horror of real starvation and it’s going to protect the user from death, even if that means long term disease instead.

That’s not the same as keto or being fat adapted. It’s not the same as fasting. When fasting, you have an abundance of ketones filling your body with continuous energy. In fact, it has too much energy and feels healthy. All spiritual disciplines and religions espouse some kind of fasting - it is not starvation.


(Windmill Tilter) #256

I agree. I think exercise while fasted is significantly safer than exercise under calorie restriction metabolically. If the individual is fat adapted this is even more true. The body has 200,000 calories to work with. If I had to rank order them I would say

Calorie Restriction + SAD+ Exercise < Calorie Restriction + Keto+Exercise < Fasting + Exercise

In my case, my primary goal is simply fat loss at this stage in the game. I’ve lost 40lbs in 8 weeks which is a bit crazy in and of itself, and it wasn’t an outcome I expected. It’s completely effortless at the moment. I don’t want to add any stresses on top of that for now. It’s a big change all by itself. For right now, my body is very happy, my energy is through the roof as my body burns through fat, and my mind is sharp. When my fat loss rate declines to something more normal, I intend to push the envelope with fasted exercise quite a bit more.


(Karim Wassef) #257

Ok. I need some help.

My precision xtra failed to give me a reading tonight. Instead it showed “HI”

I researched but couldn’t figure out what the maximum threshold is. I don’t have any of the documentation it came with, but I’ll keep looking online. If anyone knows or find out. Please let me know.

My historical highest reading was 8.0 so it must be higher than that.

My reading this evening was 51G and 7.6K, 0.37GKI. This last reading was 47G and “HI”K. My lowest ever GKI is 0.29. That seems to be the threshold for me over the last couple of years. So assuming that’s my GKI is off the charts “low” at 0.28 or 0.29, that would yield a ketone reading of 9.0K to 9.3K…

I’m going to end 9.3K so I can track this event, but any help would be appreciated.

It does line up with my recovery trajectory this evening:


(Karim Wassef) #258

By the way, I feel fine. No pain, no jitters… calm.

The cold was more harsh than usual today.

I did everything but UV today:

Lifting 1hr
Cardio 20min
Sauna 30min
Cold Packs 3hrs

Not even tired right now, but going to get some sleep. Tomorrow is dry fasting until the DEXA.

:smiley:


(Karim Wassef) #259

Decided to take a dose of magnesium and Potassium just in case.

Wife freaked a bit and decided to measure blood pressure and heart rate 118/72 and 62 bps… all seems fine. I’ll update in the morning :slight_smile:


(Karim Wassef) #260

Day 19 - DEXA day and a week longer than my last longest fast of 12 days.

Over the last 24hrs, lost another 0.6lbs with 0.3 lean and 0.3 fat. Not the direction I was hoping but these are bulk numbers, not specific to muscle mass. Strangely, I feel & think I see the loose skin around my middle to be tightening.

No blood measures yet/ coming up in a bit.

Still very cold … otherwise good energy, mood, calmness, clarity.