Just needing some fresh encouragement


#1

I’m new compared to some of you. I just finished my 12th week on Keto. This is my first low carb diet since Atkins 25 years ago, I started at 186 on March 6th, and today I weighed 170.4. So it’s slow going, but it’s going!

I’m not sure if newbies is the proper place for me to post this, but I can’t help thinking that others new to the diet might wonder this too, so that’s why I chose here.

I read all over the place (other chat groups, diet apps, and this forum,) the many wonderful success stories of people having lost 50-150 lbs on Keto. But everything I read is also saturated with their fasting or carnivore techniques, etc. I know their benefits, I understand how healthy it is for a body. I get that it helped them lose that weight. But - what I want to know is are there any success stories out there where someone has been on keto for at least a year or more and lost more than 50 lbs just doing keto the normal way without ever fasting or going over to the carnivore team? Can it be done? Because I’m starting to fear that it can’t be from what im reading, and I like the diet just the way it is.

I don’t want to do carnivore because while I’m a meat loving lunatic, I need a lot of variety - and I like biting into a plump, cold raspberry or a blueberry in my keto muffin or on my French toast. I’m enjoying all my almond and coconut products immensely too never having eaten them before, (cant believe how much I enjoy almond milk!) and I really love my spinach/romaine/kale salads I make, which always have a guest feature of two to three veggies in 20g amounts and a delicious dressing I make out of coconut milk. I’m very content and happy with the keto diet; I really don’t want to have to change anything.

A few weeks back I would have also been completely against fasting because I get extremely nauseous when I have hunger pains. Not the hunger we naturally feel when a meal time is near, but the “I haven’t eaten in 16 or 24 hours” hunger pains. They make me feel very sick. But recently I’ve been softening up to the idea and maybe I’ll do the “fasting for sissies” version one day. I already fast 8-12 hours unintentionally because I’m finally sleeping so wonderfully now. I just don’t think I want to do it intentionally on some schedule. Maybe on a day where I’m bored of cooking. LOL

But I will never soften to the idea of carnivore only. While I would enjoy my meat, I just wouldn’t enjoy life anymore without some kind of fruit, some kind of vegetables, and some kind of baked goods.

Has anyone out there had huge success over a long duration without once using the fasting or carnivore?


#2

Of course it can be done… I never lost fat with keto or IF or anything but I lost maybe 15-16kg fat just eating low-carb before (and focusing on eating only as little as I need to feel satiated and satisfied all day every day. it felt natural and easy on low-carb, I knew there is no way back). I don’t need even very low-carb for it, I just need to avoid eating too much. This is where keto usually is great (sometimes too great, some people can’t eat nearly enough on keto and starving isn’t good on any woe), not to me but it helps me too, I just need more than that, good timing, for example.

It’s easily possible that a fat person loses no fat on keto alone and needs changes in their diet. Some people overeat fat, no wonder they don’t lose fat, it’s not how a normal body works, wasting precious reserves without needing it. Many people say they can’t lose fat while eating dairy or sweeteners. I need good timing and very low-carb to get satiated without eating too much and it’s more convenient, feels better as well.

By the way, I do on/off carnivore-ish, it’s the best I ever did, it’s loads better than my original keto. Carbs mess with me if I eat them every day in such a big amount as I did while I ate (more than a very tiny amount of) vegetables. But a tiny extra or a careful off day can’t do so much harm. I’ve heard often that carnivores usually eat in that way because they need to - or love meat and don’t need more variety than the huge one carnivore allows, even on a budget. I eat various meat and egg dishes, dairy too even if I do normal carnivore. Pork chuck isn’t even remotely similar to a tongue or liver :smiley: So I have variety, I just, as you, still want to eat some fruits from my garden, taste meaty dishes made with some well chosen vegs as they are inevitable in this household and sometimes I fancy something else non-carnivore. I can afford it so why not? But I can’t do that all the time and expect good things. But this is me. Lots of people lost a lot of fat on normal keto.
Actually, the carnivore stories I have read are more like about slow loss and sometimes gain… But there are many factors… I basically never lost fat on keto because I lost what I easily could before. If I started with keto right away, I would have lose fat at a nice slow pace (I can’t eat little so my fat-loss is always slow or non-existent as my energy need is never huge and nature laws are stubborn. or my body isn’t magical to ignore them, whatever).

By the way I don’t understand why enjoying something means one must eat the thing. But maybe you meant more, feeling you misses out if you don’t do it sometimes? Oh sometimes it’s fine. I will eat Williams pear in August. Not much as it will be near inedibly sweet for me but I surely will taste them as every year… But if I eat well most of the time and do things mostly okay on my carbier days too, I expect results.
I am perfectly sure raspberries can’t keep me from losing fat, ever :smiley: But they may trigger sweets craving for someone or influence them in another way, human bodies and minds are very complicated and different.

You may change one day. You are so early on your journey. I was low-carb since years when I could do keto and I had years before I could very tentatively try to absolutely crazy, not-for-me-for-sure thing carnivore is :slight_smile: I was a HUGE veggie lover and ate close to zero meat in the previous decades. Things change, I suppose. Staying close to carnivore is pretty much a must for me now. I don’t feel okay otherwise and I prefer my carni food too. With my tiny extras and occasional off days, yes but the vast majority of my food is eggs and meat, my dessert typically is eggs and/or dairy… If I fancy cocoa, I eat an eggy cocoa, with or without cream, lacking any sweetener. I don’t feel I miss anything, if I would, I would eat that, at least sometimes. But I went low-carb maybe 11 years ago and changed a lot and keep changing.
So don’t say never :wink: But don’t give up your treats just to lose fat, it’s very much possible and even easy for many ketoers without that as far as I know and I have read about such things very much. If your keto works for you, don’t try to fix it. Maybe experiment sometimes if you like :smiley: I rarely commit myself right away, I make short trials and let’s see what happens. I got a nice surprise a few times this way :wink: And if full commitment is scary, I can stay close and train myself to make the transition slower but easier (so, possible. I don’t do hard things when it’s about my diet and I can avoid it) when I KNOW this is my way as it feels better and I want that.

Fasting is individual too. I am a natural IFer and I had EFs on high-carb too. They get harder and harder when I go lower-carb (very atypical but what can I do?) but I rather don’t fast ( :frowning: oh I don’t give it up that easily… I am stubborn) but won’t raise my carbs, that’s definitely not my way, no matter how I do it.

And if you are hungry to the point that it’s uncomfortable, I think you should eat but I know not all fasters are like this, to put it lightly… I am. I listen to my body and if it wants food, it gets food. I have a very good reason to be like this but I am a hedonist anyway. I don’t think fasts are about being strong and suffer. I can imagine some people need it for some reason but without such ones, you eat when you need to eat, maybe train yourself to wait a bit more but maybe it just happens on keto. It’s normal for many of us just not being hungry most of the day. In my case my mealsize matters much. A big, satiating meal lasts me for a day. So we just don’t get any hunger after a mere 12 or 16 or 20 hours after eating. It’s perfect satiation for me during that time, typically and it’s very nice.


(Robin) #3

Absolutely, it can be done. And your current rate of weight loss is great. We hear about people who lose 30 pounds the first month, but they likely have much more to lose. Whatever, it’s all individual. But my first year was 100% simple straight keto. And I lost 55 pounds. The next year I slipped into carni and lost the next and probably last 10 pounds.

I only left regular keto due to some specific health issues. Otherwise, would happily still be riding the keto train.


#4

Thank you for your share, I really appreciate it.

But do you see how carnivore and IF is still in your own story? That’s what I’m talking about when I say I haven’t heard from anyone sharing that they have never done either, and are as successful and healthy as those like you. I don’t want to be inspired to consider changes right now, and I want to believe that the wonderful world of keto that I find myself in today can be sustained into my future to reach my target weight and get healthy if that’s what I want to do. I would only consider changing if I find that there isn’t anyone who achieved that solely using the traditional keto diet and its ratios, (not just low carb,) without using IF or carnivore. Then I would have to prep for change, albeit while kicking the dirt begrudgingly. :joy:

MISSING FOOD: I don’t crave anything at all except all my actual keto foods. LOL. This diet is a match made in heaven for me. I haven’t craved non-keto friendly foods since my first three days. So ya, this isn’t about cravings, or even missing something. What I would miss is my protein yogurts with raspberries/blackberries and nuts, or my homemade keto berry muffins, or my delicious keto French toast with berries, or my celery filled snacks and olives, or my salads, or being able to use almond and coconut flours/milks and erythritol to make things. Without those things, only meat and eggs are left. I realize some people are happy with that but I eventually would fall off the diet because of it and get sick of the meat flavors that I currently love. I do not want to start to hate the flavor of my meat! But I know myself, it doesn’t take much repetition to cause me to start to dislike a food I once loved. I can’t stand too many eggs right now because of that. I used to be able to eat a whole tray of deviled eggs. LOL. Now just the cooked smell of eggs makes me green. I can only have eggs maybe twice a week at most now. I need that variety of foods, flavors, and textures to not grow an aversion, and that’s possible with regular keto.

I miss the reaction to my pleasure center over biting into a slice of a juicy orange atop a graham cracker, but not to the point that I wish I could eat it again. Oddly I don’t. I’m sure we all miss those enjoyable moments licking a soft serve ice cream on a hot summer day, but I know today the way my body is one lick now would make me go “ew yuck!” The tiniest bit of sugar is overly icky sweet to me now and I can’t hack it. Not pleasurable at all. My memory doesn’t remember that kind of reaction so of course I miss the experience in my “memory”, but I found a way to make soft serve IC with my Cuisinart that is 100% keto. And it was pretty much identical to my memory. Again, I don’t crave it and only made it twice in three months. Lol. But I know it’s there if I want something like that. I know great alternatives can be found for every pleasure I once had, and I do mean to find them. But I can’t if I am limited to using only the products acceptable by carnivore. I’m not good with that kind of restriction.

FASTING AND HUNGER: I don’t get deep hunger unless I pass the 12 hour mark. I already unintentionally eat on a 12/12 cycle because - I LOVE my bed and my sleep. :joy: Especially after years of insomnia that is now cured. I sometimes will do my research, emails, and posting when I wake up in the morning while still lying in bed, as I am now, and that keeps me occupied for another hour or two and I don’t often feel any hunger during that time unless I slept over 11 hours. So I was happy that I naturally can go that long - but only when sleep is part of it. After being up and around and having my first meal, I can’t go even 8 hours without deep hunger beginning to fatigue me. I don’t nibble nonstop for those 12 hours, but I do have 2 or 3 meals in there and they usually are 5 hours apart. I sometimes count my late night protein tea or yogurt as one of my meals, but one thing is for certain, I cannot go to bed with a hunger pain. It will keep me awake.

Because I can go fairly long before eating due to less hunger, I relate to IF and can see that maybe one day I could focus on keeping every day a 12/12, and maybe an occasionally 16:8 when my sleep lines up. But when I talk about it with veteran fasters they all want to convert me to a 16:8 at minimum and talk in a way that communicates it’s impossible to truly fast unless you go 16-24 hours without food. Again, an exclusionary feeling starts to emerge (“our way or the highway”,) and I don’t think they realize that’s how they are making people feel.

I have been loving my diet because I can see long term with it. But then the past week I have been discouraged by some die-hard carnivores I met and frankly the crowd I met seems judgmental of others who don’t agree. One even resorted to really nasty social bullying to try and get me to leave the group or just feel bad about myself or something, and the group leader who saw their text just locked me out of their carnivore challenge chat and told me to stick to the keto channels, like I couldn’t be trusted since I asked questions that questioned them. I’m allowed to ask from other channels only, but most of them are not chatting there. :rofl: It was all so juvenile, like I was a child sent to a corner that would be spoken to only when they wanted to. It frustrated me that they believed their way was the best and the only way to accomplish what they we’re doing.

And that’s why this forum’s message, “you do you and we still love you” feels more sane and reasonable, more accepting.

But all this got me really wondering if keto alone was enough. Thus my search for someone who never did intentional fasting or carnivore even once.

I really believe every body is unique and what works for one might not for another, and I may discover things about my own in the future that changes what I eat. But until then, I need to know that what I am doing is still good and not some derelict path.


#5

Thank you - so glad to hear you lost 55 lbs doing just keto! Thank you so much!

You seem to be a needle in a haystack. :rofl: I pray there will be other replies showing the haystack is filled with needles.


#6

We hear about people who lose 30 pounds the first month,

I lost only 1.5 lbs by the end of my third week. I was surrounded by the joyous shares of others losing 8-12 in their first week. :rofl: (water weight). But I stuck with it. It’s very slow, and I only lost 1 lb in the past three weeks so expecting the scale to do something marvelous soon. Lol. But I’m still losing inches.


(Joey) #7

As others have noted, it can definitely can be done.

I didn’t have 50+ lbs to lose so I’m not a perfect illustration in response to your question, but I easily lost 25 lbs (165 down to 140 - and lost 4" around the waist) without ever doing any “fasting” or pure carnivore. Just cutting out the carbs (i.e., bread, chips, potatoes, rice, pasta, starches and of course sugars).

Sounds like you’re off to a good start, but this comment concerns me…

What exactly is a “keto muffin” or “French toast”? Are you really cutting your carbs down to the point where you’ll enjoy the benefits and reach the objectives you’re expecting for yourself? :thinking:


#8

I have not been on keto for a year, yet. I started by reducing processed foods and sugars for about three months prior. I didn’t know what keto was. I started that last July then moved to keto in October. I began losing weight in July and have had a pretty steady decline. New total 83 lbs.

I try to keep my carbs around 20 per day. The longest fast I’ve managed is 28 hours. I do routinely do 18/6. I’m not hungry. If I am I eat. Lately my appetite has increased so I was worried that my weight loss might stagnate. Thus I was pleasantly surprised when I weighed and found, I’d lost 8 Lbs. in three weeks.

I’m T2 diabetic and have found that both berries and keto baked goods spike my blood sugar so for now I avoid them. I eat most vegetables other than potatoes and grains.

I love keto. Like you I love the variety. My meals tend to be simple but very enjoyable.

Sounds like you are already off to a good start.


#9

I use Aldi 0-carb L’oven Fresh bread and make French toast out of an egg custard and store it in my freezer. I usually only eat one slice at a time maybe 2-3x a week. One slice is 13 total carbs, but 11.6 fiber and 1.5 sugar alcohols, 7.4 protein and 6.8 fat.

I found a keto muffin recipe using Almond flour and a smidge of coconut flour. It calls for only 1/2 C blueberries and spread between 24 muffins I get 1-3 blueberries per serving, and strangely that little muffin satiates me for 4-5 hours! It’s also very tasty. Each is 2.3 net carbs, 3.8 protein, and 11.1 fat. Again. I only have maybe 1-2 per week. They store in my freezer too.

I also found a keto pumpkin bread after two major FAILS of terrible recipes, and it’s delicious and moist and the same consistency as real pumpkin/zucchini/banana breads. One slice (1/12 of loaf and I get perfectly cut, uniform slices from it too,) has 3.4 net carbs, 6.3 protein, and 14.1 fat.

I do enjoy foods like this and I don’t eat them in the same meal as I have meat and high fat. I eat them on their own or with berries, and berries are limited to 8-10 raspberries or blackberries, 5-6 blueberries, or 1L or 2M strawberries. I just never need any more than that ever when it is served on top or in something, like yogurt. Only three times since I started have I made a strawberry protein smoothie where I use 1/4-1/2 C frozen strawberries but I saved my carbs for it.

Looking at the past month, my daily norm is 10-18 net carbs and 13-35 total carbs. I have a handful of days where I have 18-20 net and 50-60 total, but those are the days I ate a salad and another dish that had close to 8-10 carbs in It from cream or sour cream or other ingredients that nickel and dime carbs from .5 - 2 each and add up in the recipe. And then I have a good handful of days like yesterday when my net carbs were 3 and my total carbs were 14. So - my average above seems accurate.


#10

Thank you!

Do you keep net carbs below 20 or total carbs?

I can do a day here and there with my total below 20 but I can’t maintain that with how I like to eat. So I track net carbs and keep them under 20 and keep an eye on my total. If my total starts to push 40, it impacts whether or not I limit fiber and erythritol for the rest of the day.


(Joey) #11

The only thing “low carb” about this bread is the plastic packaging.

Looking at the ingredients, the fiber is added separately from the starch/carb ingredients. In other words, you can’t subtract the separately added fiber to get a “net” carb figure that’s meaningful to your metabolism.

If the carbs aren’t coming already locked up into their natural fibers, then you’re (1) eating carbs, plus (2) you’re also eating some fiber… but the two are not connected in any way that matters. This fools you into believing it’s “keto” by reporting “net carbs,” It’s clearly not what is meant by “net carbs” to anyone who understands glycemic index and related insulin issues.

This falls somewhere between manufacturer ignorance - or simply a scam.

On a separate topic: We make some almond flour foods in our “keto” home, too. But they’re few and far between. I’m not suggesting you don’t make and enjoy them in sparing amounts. But, the less progress you seem to be making toward your weight loss goals, the more sparingly I’d suggest you consume them. :vulcan_salute:


#12

I’m not an avid carb counter. I know that a helping of say spinach with onions, mushrooms and garlic is about 7 or so total carbs. The rest of that meal will be protein and fat so 0 carbs. Today, for my first meal, I had eggs and bacon. The eggs had mushrooms and jalapenos and garlic. I estimate about three carbs.

Tonight, I’ll have blackened fish and broccoli in miso broth. Total carbs less than 8. I’ll also have a square of dark chocolate. I think that is about 2 carbs. If I’m still hungry, I’ll have an egg, or tuna.

While you can subtract fiber from the carbs in spinach, I don’t. For the most part, I don’t eat products where I need to be concerned with net carbs. I’d like to, but the keto breads, baked goods and berries spike my blood sugars.

Each person is different and is using keto for different reasons. Early on I did eat berries on keto waffles with whipped cream. Yummy! I still lost weight but I gave it up because of the glucose spikes. I hope to someday be able to indulge on occasion.

I would probably do keto somewhat differently if I was not T2D.


#13

Many of us came from Atkins, you’re correct that Fasting is trying it’s hardest at infiltrating keto as some must have, but that’s clearly not real life.

I did carnivore for a while, and like you I realized how much variety (meaning almost any at all) I needed. I started CRAVING salads like nothing I’ve ever experienced, I got REAL on the fasting wagon for a while, stalled myself out hard with fat loss, lost a ton of muscle and demolished my metabolic rate in the process. So needless to say I’m not for either. Nothing wrong with Carnivore, just not for me, Fasting absolutely not. I do PSMF’s sometimes, but you’re still eating then and they’ll short term.

People like fads, people like cheats, and people like “hacks” (which is always used wrong). I think that the deal with all the tweaks people make more than anything, if people think they’re cheating the rules and getting to the end faster, they’re 100% on board and evangelize the life out of it.

Regular keto is ultimately what took over 100lbs of me, all that crap in the middle pushed that back, stalled me out and made more work of it than it needed to be. Plus add in a year of reverse dieting to fix my metabolism and time in the gym regaining muscle I already had. Nothing more infuriating than that.

Nothing slow about almost 20lbs in a couple of months!


#14

But I talked about other people’s experiences too as I have read their stories. And I didn’t ever lost fat on keto or on my several IF years except when I ate little and it was only a few short times. My “big” fat loss happened off keto. (On IF, yes as I would VERY MASSIVELY overeat and feel horrible if I ate all day. I can’t turn off IF but when it still happens, it’s a tragic day. 8 hours is still a crazy huge eating window for me, I go for 1-3. But it’s only me, others can do it differently.)

And if people who get hungry and undisciplined on carbs (like me) STILL can lose fat on mere low-carb (80g net in my case)… They can do it even easier on keto especially after fat adaptation.
My SO always lost fat quickly and smoothly on HCHF without IF. It’s individual.
There are no rules about being super strict timing or food choice wise for fat-loss. Some of us can’t comfortably do it without that but it’s not for everyone. (And I can’t lose fat at all, period but it’s my own little tragic thing. And I am optimistic. Give me another decade and maybe my weight will budge.)

Carnivore is great but no fat loss till now (no wonder as I don’t do it properly yet - not like I think I need that, my goals are elsewhere but I need to stay close to make them happen. at least I don’t overeat on carnivore - one day doesn’t count but I know what items to avoid now). But who does it right in the carni thread, they don’t talk about quick fat-loss either…

So it’s not like this at all. IF and carnivore may bring no fat-loss, sometimes even gain… And big fat-loss on mere keto stories are everywhere… There are many factors.

If your actual keto doesn’t work even long term, change something but it doesn’t mean you need to be drastic (from your viewpoint). It’s even possible that carnivore and/or IF wouldn’t solve your problems at all, there are no guarantees. You should find your own style that works and sustainable.

Keto as I interpret is has no ratios, it’s just a diet that puts you into ketosis… Those are individual. I would overeat using 70-75% fat unless I would be very, very careful…

Missing keto food, OK. I can understand it and it’s fine, good luck with that :slight_smile: Even if you really will need some finetuning, it may be something subtle you are fine with. Or you may be able to reach your goals without giving up anything, it’s quite possible.
And I very much understand liking variety, I am the same. I mean, I like and need variety but you seem to be on another level. I have been eating maybe 6-7 eggs on average in the last decade and still LOVE them. Sometimes more, sometimes less and I need multiple egg dishes a day or else I would get bored. But I am an egg fan. I hardly eat a meal without eggs… I couldn’t eat only meat for 2 days… I need my super versatile eggs. I get bored of simple egg dishes but ALL the carnivore ones? No way. But I easily can imagine you need to spice them up and while I can’t imagine not wanting eggs every day, i understand that too. It’s how things are, we have diets we can and can’t do while not feeling miserable. It was a pretty big surprise to me that carnivore is possible for me, even in its limited, not pure (as I don’t see the need. I did it pure for a little while but I didn’t see the point for me) and on/off way. And I needed a long journey to even try it. And I am not particularly strict on my strictest experimantal days, that’s for other people.

Oh, that’s a thing? Fortunately I usually want juicy something. So a slice of radish will do (that’s why I do only carnivore-ISH except my strictest, very rare days).
And a crunchy something, well that’s more difficult (cheese whisps are crunchy but they are cheese only, not what I want). And I couldn’t eat crackers on keto either as I would eat up the whole pack… I don’t know why I can bake and cook so many things but not really crunchy things I need sometimes. I will try harder.

I have the opposite problem :frowning: I wanna make and enjoy ice cream but can’t as I NEVER want it. If I make it, I eat it but it’s not enough. Sigh. I have great keto and carnivore ice cream recipes and what do I do with them? Basically nothing.
I consider my keto desserts WAY better than almost anything I can buy, that’s no problem.

Btw there are keto ice cream, I mean, one can buy them in some countries in a normal supermarket… They are probably super sweet with a horrible aftertaste for me, though… But it’s so very easy to make my own. I just don’t desire it :frowning: I can get tempted by various non-carnivore items but NOT ice cream.
(And then I have read you found a solution too. Good. Sometimes we are luckier than another times.)

Try to read and not write, sorry.

Oh yep, we change. If we are super lucky, we can get a similar feeling from another item when our tastes evolve from our old fav. It happened to me.
But it’s usually enough to get new favs. I understand the power of nostalgic longing though.
I have some favs I refused to give up and I simply make them differently now (I was lucky I could do that, it’s not possible for everything). “Simply”. Sometimes I made hundreds of experiments to accidentally figure out what to do (pancakes. it was the biggest struggle by far. no one can take away my pancakes).
When I changed my woe, I had some temporal time when I was lost but with a ton of new recipes and too many experimenting it got better. And then I changed my woe and started again, keeping a few that still worked… (Carnivore was the best as I didn’t need many recipes and what I needed was super simple. Usually.)
But it’s NO good to overcomplicate things and trying to make everything keto. I didn’t do that, just with my important dishes.

And you consider 12 hour long, it’s so very odd to me :smiley: Isn’t that normal for people who don’t eat at night? Maybe I think so as my family is like that, we can’t really go below 12 hour on the most extreme days! (My SO often do 11 but he wakes up at 4)… But it means you can eat and sleep soon if you want? Some poor souls must stop eating SUPER early or else they can’t sleep properly.

I have maybe 1-2 days per year with 6 hours. It’s almost always 1-3 hours otherwise… Sometimes 4 if my first meal is over 1300 kcal.
Sleep is vital for my long fasting window. I realized I better don’t let a long time to pass after my last meal until I go to bed. At one point it was 8 but it’s 12 hours at most. It’s after eating very well during the day (my energy need for the day should do)… I MUST sleep at that point or else I will get hungry so I will eat. It may be 3am, I will. And probably not a tiny meal. That’s one reason I need to eat later if I go for OMAD.

8 hour is a long time, no wonder you get hungry! I can’t even comprehend how my SO does his 8-9 hours (he is hungry but sometimes only in the end. sometimes in the last 4 hours). I never could do that.

I can’t sleep with hunger either or if I do (I did it once. I was desperate, I couldn’t lose fat as I ate too much), my sleep will be utterly horrible. Yep, you figure out these little things and make your keto to suit your needs. It doesn’t matter what others find and say, you are an individual.

I don’t consider anything below 16 hour IF as it’s the definition I met but I know there are others and it’s perfectly fine not doing IF at all. Each to their own. I actually read about 12/12 having some benefits too. And one needing more than 16 hours for even more benefits… It makes sense to me. But forcing it can’t be good in most cases.
Some people do 12/12 TMAD, it’s interesting to me as I never met anyone who could go that long between meals without doing OMAD…

Sadly, there are so many people who think there is only One Right Way… And I have heard about not welcoming (if you don’t like their exact ways) carnivore groups too. I started here and stayed and this forum is pretty friendly. I admire the carnivores who tolerate me and my super lengthy texts while not even being carnivore… I kind of try though, sometimes. So the carnivores here are call, they charmed me first so I tried it out, being baffled WHY when it’s so NOT me… :smiley: But it was a good idea.

As you see I agree with you, people are different with different circumstances, goals, priorities so no wonder we need different styles of keto (or not keto as it’s not for everyone. a human should be able to do it but it may be less than ideal or impossible for someone).

Water weight doesn’t matter IMO. Mine was 4lbs. I lost 4 lbs in the first days and then nothing. But I got fat adapted and my habits changed, found some cool new favs… It was part of my journey and important. We should be patient, we aren’t other people - and it’s not just about fat-loss anyway. (For some people, not at all.)


#15

Both of them has carbs (maybe some bacon doesn’t as the pork originally doesn’t have it. eggs are different)… But they don’t seem to matter for many of us so yay? :smiley:
I couldn’t resist to react as I know very well how easy it is for someone like me to get 20g carbs from animal products only… If one mostly eats meat and dairy without carbs and very little amount of eggs, that’s different, of course.


(A fool and his bacon are soon parted) #16

It absolutely can be done, and I am living proof (and so are Carl Franklin and Richard Morris, the Two Keto Dudes who founded this site). I embarked on a keto diet in March of 2017, and by December of that year had lost 80 pounds (36.4 kg) of fat, eating three meals a day and without counting calories or doing any exercise whatsoever, beyond the activities of daily living. Over the next twelve months, my weight remained stable, but I lost another two inches (12.7 cm) around my waist (so obviously I gained some lean mass while shedding fat mass). During that period, I also found myself no longer wanting to eat in the morning, so I unintentionally dropped to eating two meals a day. Occasionally I will be hungry enough to want a meal before two p.m., but it is rare, these days. (In other words, I am not imposing a two-meal-a-day pattern on my body, I am simply not eating because I’m not hungry.)


#17

The only thing “low carb” about this bread is the plastic packaging

I don’t understand the logic of “added fiber” vs fiber naturally a part of food - isnt fiber fiber? If a food has zero carbs on its own and no fiber, and then fiber is added to it, total carbs become whatever carbs are in the fiber - but since it’s fiber net carbs are still zero. Aldi bread would have zero carbs without the starch and protein isolate or the bran or other fiber ingredients. With them, those ingredients add total carbs but those ingredients are 100% fiber. Regardless where it comes from it doesnt impact insulin and should pass right through our bodies anyway. So if I have a bread that has 9 grams of total carbs and it also has 9 grams of added fiber, why do I have to count that added fiber in my “net” carbs? It’s still fiber.

I’m glad I don’t eat it every day though because I don’t get those ingredients in anything else, and possibly it would become a metabolism issue if one ate several slices every single day. Maybe 2-3 times a week I have one slice, from either my French toast or when I make a tuna melt out of my tuna salad. But what I didn’t like is that it has soybean oil in it. That’s why I keep it to a minimum because nothing else I eat contains soybean oil.

I don’t buy any prepackaged prepared “keto friendly” products at all except for that bread and La Banderita 0-carb Street Tacos. Everything else I make, including my ketchup! In the packaged offerings I was able to spot something in the ingredients that was misleading or really bad for us (maltodextrin, soluble tapioca fiber, yada yada) and it was high up in the ingredient list. Atkins products are the worst and loaded with bad things. Would Dr Atkins have approved of that??? We will never know. So any treats or other breads or crackers I have are all homemade, including fat bombs. Pulling from my freezer is just as convenient and easy as pulling from a pre-packed box, but a lot healthier. And any recipe I make and freeze in portions I only have to make once every two months so not a headache for the convenience. I can either spend two to three hours in a store scouring the aisles and comparing labels until my head spins, and having to choose the least of all evils, or I can spend one hour at home making it. Cheaper too. But my favorite is my homemade beef jerky. I freeze that in 40g portions.


(Joey) #19

Nope. But not a bad question to explore… :+1:

Gross carbohydrates (the top line shown on US food label) are before subtracting the fiber in which those carbs are understood to be bound up in. Being bound up inside fiber makes those carbs less readily digestible, and less gets absorbed in the stomach. As such, they have a lower glycemic index when they’re encased in their natural fiber material.

Net carbohydrates are a measure of the gross carbs minus the fiber. That’s because the binding up of the carbs makes them less available to spike glucose and produce the insulin response (and eventual lack of response) that’s problematic for many.

If you toss artificial sources of fiber into the mixing bowl (see the ingredient list of that Aldi “keto” bread), the gross carbs cited on the label are NOT bound up in the fiber. They’re simply along for the ride - so those gross carbs have a markedly higher glycemic index than a net carb figure would suggest.

It’s why the glycemic index of orange juice or apple juice is so much higher than the gylcemic index of the same volume of whole oranges or whole apples. The gross carbs (fruit sugars) are shielded from immediate digestion by the natural fibers in which they’re encased.

If you drank a glass of apple juice, then chomped on the crushed dry fiber pulp it came from, you would not wind up in the same place metabolically speaking.

Please don’t fall for this “keto” marketing trick.

If I put a bowl filled with 100g of sugar in front of you and also a bowl filled with 100g of fiber, eating the two together is a “zero net carb” meal. That doesn’t mean what you likely expected a “zero net carb” meal to mean.

Hope this helps.


(A fool and his bacon are soon parted) #20

There are two equations involved in calculating carb intake:

  1. total carbs = (the sum of all digestible carbohydrate eaten) + (the sum of all indigestible carbohydrate [fibre] eaten)

  2. net carbs = total carbs - (the sum of all indigestible carbohydrate [fibre] eaten)

Depending on which country you are in, the word “carbohydrate” in the nutrition panel means either “total carbohydrate” or “net carbohydrate.” You have to know the consumer regulations in your jurisdiction to know whether you can subtract the listed fibre amount from the listed carbohydrate amount, or not. And fibre from one food does not cancel out digestible carbohydrate from another food. The only time you can reduce the listed carb amount by the amount of fibre shown is if you live in North America (where “carbohydrate” = “total carbohydrate”) and you are doing this food by food. You can clearly see this by playing around with the equations above.


(A fool and his bacon are soon parted) #21

This is incorrect, sorry. The net carbohydrate = 100 g sugar + 100 g fibre - 100 g fibre = 100 g net carbohydrate. (See my previous post.) The sugar plus the fibre equals total carbohydrate of 200 g, and 200 g total - 100 g fibre = 100 g net carbohydrate intake.

The only case in which one can end up with net carbohydrate = 0 is when a North American nutrition label says both “carbohydrate = x grams” and “fiber = x grams.” And even then, its an odds on favourite that the serving size is small enough for them to list 0 g of sugar, but sugar appears in the list of ingredients