Just got into an argument about keto

(Jennibc) #41

I’d been going to physical therapy since my spinal surgery about three times a week. Then about five weeks ago, I got into a conversation with my PT about weight loss. I’d mentioned to him that I’d taken off a dramatic amount over the last several years. He was really impressed. Then he said something to the effect about people doing a crazy keto diet and how that was so dangerous. I looked at him and said, I’d taken it all off by cutting out grain and then dropping sugar a year ago which essentially put me into ketosis. I am sure he assumed I was watching calories and started exercising. I explained that I’d never stopped exercising and when I was counting calories (consuming about 1500 a day, I could not drop below 230 pounds and I was always hungry).

This guy has a fat lower body and has a round face and he’s only 30. I am 52 and clearly have better fat distribution and body composition. He could not accept that the way I have been eating is far healthier than his ‘healthy whole grains’ based diet. His attitude got a little condescending to me. I guess my 100+ pound weight loss and maintenance wasn’t evidence enough that what I was doing was plenty ‘healthy’ and far less dangerous that carrying around excess weight that could kill me at some point.

His stubborn attitude - he kept implying I was wrong- as a health care professional really rubbed me the wrong way. After that I didn’t make any more appointments and finished out the sessions the following week. My feeling was if you are so close minded and dogmatic about this, what else have you closed yourself off to? How is this going to affect my care? I have already suffered enough by dealing with with stubborn and dogmatic health care professionals. No more of this. Anyway, now I need to find a new physical therapist as I haven’t gone in weeks.

Arguing about keto is tiresome. Some people cannot be reasoned with, so there is no point in continuing to reason. They have made up their minds.

(Alec) #42

My hated phrase is “balanced diet”. I ask: so what does that mean? Balanced with arsenic and chairs??? It’s rare that they understand.

(traci simpson) #43

Exactly. And in moderation is relevant because your moderation is different from my moderation

(Mame) #44

So true. I think that most people can moderate some things and not others. It helps to know yourself.
Now I can moderate cigarettes and alcohol. As a young adult I would smoke a cigarette or two at a bar, but then not smoke for 1.5 years. Cigarettes never ‘pulled’ me. I cannot remember when I last had one. Yet there are clearly many people who cannot moderate cigarettes and really struggle. I would never say to them “why don’t you just moderate your smoking, it’s easy” based on my experience.

I cannot moderate around bread. I cannot have it in the house. If I have a party that includes bread for guests then the leftovers go home with them or it goes in the trash. I know myself, I will want to eat it all and I don’t want to white-knuckle it even if I could.

(traci simpson) #45

I can’t do sweets I’m moderation. No way no how. It sucks.

(John) #46

I rarely have conversations with anyone about how I choose to eat. Just like it is none of my business how someone else chooses to eat. If someone asks what I have done to lose so much weight, I just say I eat healthy, non-processed foods, prepared from fresh ingredients, with no sugars, starches, or grains.

If they ask what I normally eat, I tell them. Salads, fresh vegetables like broccoli, cauliflower, asparagus, brussels sprouts, spinach, chard, green beans, avocados, meats including beef, pork, chicken, turkey, fish, seafood, eggs, nuts, cheese, yogurt, fresh berries, dark chocolate, fats for cooking and flavoring like butter, olive oil, avocado oil.

They kind of look at that list and think “ok, that does sound like a healthy diet.” Because IT IS.

(John) #47

Me neither. I had lost a bunch of weight about 10 years ago eating a pretty healthy balanced diet, but I thought I had it managed and could eat “just a few” halloween candies, which merged into Thanksgiving and Christmas and back to bad habits.

Some can manage moderation, some need total abstention. I need total abstention. I don’t even use artificial sweeteners. I have chosen to accept that limitation of my life.

(Karim Wassef) #48

I actually agree about moderation… so let’s define that.

A healthy body is made of protein, fat and carbs… the carbs are glycogen stores and about 5% … so moderation is eating 5% carbs.

50% carbs would be a gross imbalance and 10% would be 2x the natural balance of moderation.

So agree… then explain.

#49

I must say after reading all this i feel very fortunate. At my work, there are 8 of us doing keto, we weren’t even that close but keto brought us together. We share food, ideas and support. Although, i do notice eye rolls from others but don’t much care. I think they get sick of us talking about it. I am the only one IF and EF, no one seems too interested in it but I still don’t have to justify it. All together we have lost over 400lbs.

In our personal life its almost the same, we have keto all around us. Watching everyone’s successes is so inspiring snd we never have to explain why we can’t eat this or that. Went out for dinner last night with another keto couple, they ate keto food and drank vodka soda and Im fasting so was just water for me. Lucky for them cause i could drive then and no questions about why.
Anyway, thought i would share.

#50

Like this?

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#52

I think the Glucose Ketone Index (GKI) is an excellent tool.

(Karim Wassef) #53

totally agree. there is no better indicator I’ve found for fat loss

(Keto butts drive me nuts) #54

I think some people just like to argue. My family doesn’t agree with what I am doing, but I also know that they are not informed completely with this woe. There are so many people still clinging to the lies spread by the people that dont want keto to succeed. So I would never try and restrict carbs from anyone wanting them. We all have a choice to do what we feel is right.

A story of keto WoE and medical establishment mistrust
(traci simpson) #55

I know! And they are the over weight too!

(Kirk Wolak) #56

First,
She is missing the point. The purpose of the fat is to control hunger, and NOT trigger insulin.
Second, who says it cannot be a WOL? Her, because you couldn’t PAY ME to give this up.

Third, forget google. She needs to read the Obesity Code. And she BETTER change her relationship to food. Because right now, she is practicing Serial Monogamy with diets. She will shift from one to the next, and never get anywhere. Sometimes WE ARE the problem. I think SHE IS HER PROBLEM. Not the food. She is feeding her desire, and WANTS certain food.

Have her fast for 7 days and see if she would like some fatty bacon then! LOL…

BTW, my friend and I start people off with “Do you like Bacon?”. How much do you think you could eat before you get full? What if you ate it once a day? Bacon and Avocados… Fat fasting until they can do IF… (Worked every time, except the one time the person can’t eat more than 2 pieces of bacon because of all the fat. That’s why we ask up front, now)

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #57

Oh, I don’t know about that. Clothing size seems to work just as well. :grin::bacon:

(Karim Wassef) #58

I need higher resolution data… :slight_smile:

#59

You guys were spot on. She ended up texting me the other day saying she felt like crying because she can’t seem to stick to her diet or stay motivated.

At that point I really didn’t care as much as I used to, since she took out her frustration on me weeks ago.

(Karim Wassef) #60

I think caloric restriction with carbs makes for a painful emotional roller coaster and people usually blame themselves for being “losers”…

In fact, I think the even-keel mood and calmness I got with keto has been incredibly useful, not just in food but in all aspects.

The carbs are a drug… and you can’t fault the addict for their joy in the drug. It’s deeply chemical.

Unfortunately as with most addiction with adults, all you can do is share what you know and comfort/support their transition if they choose to take it.

The bad part is that carb addicts don’t recognize it as an addiction. That’s the first step - admit that you have a problem and the root of that problem is a substance that you can choose to remove from your life.

The overeating, the weight gain… those are symptoms. The real damage is the deterioration of the internal organs, nerves and blood vessels. If the conversation is about symptoms, then it’s wasted.

The addiction and the resulting disease are the real root of the problem. The weight is a symptom and not the issue.

It’s hard to help when you’ve been hurt, but that’s part of dealing with an addict. I say try again and don’t talk about weight… at all. Talk about the real problem…

Pain causes a need to escape and be numb
Addiction temporarily dulls that pain
Disease comes from addiction
Disease causes pain, shortened life and weight gain as a peripheral symptom

(hottie turned hag) #61

HA so this!
I’m very out of touch with pop culture, am reclusive, engage in no social media, don’t watch the news etc. When I started keto I had no CLUE it was a new trend, nor fasting. I just did it through experimental trial and error.
When I mentioned it to two of my kids they were the ones who told me it was “keto” (I have a degree in a med sci field so was familiar with the ketogenic diet for epileptics but didn’t think of what I was doing as that) and that it was now “a thing” as was fasting.
#inadvertentlyontrend

As to the arguing, I have been struggling with one of my kids aged 19 about dropping carbs as she is getting a tad hefty (5’1" and 151 lbs). She is a full time student at Purdue and works 30h/wk and her argument was " it’s too inconvenient for how busy I am" :astonished:
She has seen my dramatic results; but refuses to implement it for herself.
It is indeed very frustrating to watch this. And to counter such silly arguments.