Just embrace autophagy?

fasting
extended
autophagy
extendedfast
(Atlanta Girl) #1

I started extended water fasting last year for 72hrs every other week but had to quit bc my blood pressure became elevated.

I started it again in December, not primarily for weight loss, but because of chronic insomnia. When I fast 96+hrs/week, I feel amazing, joint pain subsides, focus sharp, and I get 8+hours of sleep several nights a week… but my blood pressure increased again. I have tweaked things, adding in magnesium, potassium & some pink salt and BP dropped.

I have read up a lot on autophagy - and absolutely thrilled with quality sleep I have achieved that I haven’t had in decades. After 6 weeks of 72-110 hour fasts, I took a 2 week break. And the insomnia came back.

Back on 96hour fast every week for the past 2 weeks. And the insomnia has retreated again.

Thoughts if my body just has more regenerating to do or if this mode of weekly fasting is just something I should embrace long term?

*47yo female with a lot of autoimmune disorders. Eaten AIP/Paleo for 8yrs. Switched to very clean keto/IF 2019

(Marianne) #2

Wow; I commend you. I just cannot seem to fast for more than 48 hours.

For some of us, no matter what we do, our hbp may be hereditary. The way I see it, I may still have to take some medication, however, I’m sure it’s not as much as if I wasn’t doing keto or had lost a lot of weight.

(Windmill Tilter) #3

Do you consume caffeine on eating days? How many carbs do you eat a day? Do you time your carb consumption just before bed? Are there other dietary triggers that could contribute to insomnia, or have you researched those and eliminated common culprits?

Sleep generally gets worse during extended fasting when most people start out. This is because the adrenal system is uprgulated to facilitate lypolysis. If you immediately slept better when you stopped eating, it might mean you’re eating something on feasting days that causing you problems.

I’m not ordinarily a fan of the carnivore diet, but it might be useful to you as an elimination diet for a week or so to see if you could replicate the sleep quality on fed days.

Just brainstorming a bit. You’ve probably thought of or tried most of this, but I thought I’d throw it out there.

(Atlanta Girl) #4

It took time for me to build up to longer fasts. After the first 24hrs now, it is no big deal for me. Planning on doing a 12day fast for Lent.

I am fortunate that I have never had issues with HBP except surrounding fasting, but I think I have figured that out for me. I have learned a lot about how food can heal or hurt our bodies over the years through reading & trial and error. I hope your issues are continued to be managed.

(Atlanta Girl) #5

Hi Don,
I consume 1 cup of coffee some mornings (5am) , I don’t “have” to have it though. I don’t do any caffeine (ie green tea) after 3pm. I normally eat OMAD when not fasting before noon, zero after that. I eat very clean Keto, rarely above 12g carbs, all whole foods.

I have had chronic insomnia since childhood. Scads of specialists, sleep studies, sleep aids, etc. I am an incredibly light sleeper and naturally wake up btwn 3-5am (since childhood!) I am the queen of sleep hygiene. I have existed on 4-6hrs of not restful sleep most of my life.

I have been AIP/Paleo, for MS & other autoimmune disorders, which was my introduction to nutritional healing. I still focus on nutritional density while on Keto. I don’t MIND fasting, I feel good. I am sleeping better that I ever have. My skin looks better my energy and focus is better… From a healing perspective, I figured that the 6 cycles of extended fasting had “reset” stuff.

I know so little is known about autophagy, add in my autoimmune variety pack and things are even more wacky. My inflammation in labs (prior to starting the fast) is virtually indetectable… but I am curious about the impact. I donate plasma weekly for research and nothing (pulse, protein, iron, hemocrit) beyond elevated BP has been an issue. I am just going to play around some more with lengths of fasts and maybe take another break and see what my body has to say.

:slight_smile:

(Windmill Tilter) #6

It sounds like you’ve got your bases pretty well covered sleep hygiene-wise. I’m baffled as to why fasting would help improve sleep quality so much but I’m glad it does. I’ll keep my fingers crossed for you that it some of that good sleep starts to sneak over into normal days as well.

(Bunny) #7

Interesting things about insomnia (below) but what is also interesting is that it is connected with actual precursors (co-factors) to lipolysis or actual burning of body fat (not dietary fat) which is also additionally interesting:

[1] ”…There’s one thing that allows tryptophan to easily enter the brain: eating carbohydrate. Carbohydrates cause your body to release insulin, which removes all amino acids—except tryptophan —from your blood. That means that tryptophan has no competition and can enter the brain easily, boosting serotonin levels. …” …sleep.org

[2] “…RESULTS: The carbohydrate-rich and protein-rich breakfasts had significantly different effects on both the plasma tryptophan-LNAA and tyrosine-LNAA ratios (each P < 0.01). Among the 8 subjects who consumed both breakfasts, the median difference for tryptophan:LNAA was 54% (range: 36-88%) and for tyrosine:LNAA was 28% (range: 10-64%). Insulin concentrations rose significantly after the carbohydrate but not after the protein meal. CONCLUSIONS: High-carbohydrate and high-protein breakfasts similar to those Americans normally eat can cause substantial differences in the plasma tryptophan ratio and thus, probably, in brain tryptophan concentrations and serotonin synthesis. Such meals also change the plasma tyrosine ratio and may thereby modify catecholamine synthesis. …” …Effects of normal meals rich in carbohydrates or proteins on plasma tryptophan and tyrosine ratios.

[4] “…Catecholamine Synthesis: is a biochemical pathway used to produce dopamine, norepinephrine, and epinephrine. …The pathway begins with phenylalanine, which is converted into tyrosine. This reaction is catalyzed by the enzyme phenylalanine hydroxylase, and requires the cofactor, BH4 (tetrahydrobiopterin). …” …More

(Doug) #8

Atlanta_Girl, I think fasting for 3 days+ every other week is fantastic! While we have much to learn about longer-term fasting, autophagy, etc., I’m firmly convinced of the benefits of it. The only fly in the ointment would be personal, individual things - in your case the blood pressure issue.

It’s counter-intuitive for me, since I’d think blood pressure would go down while fasting, especially without salt supplementation. But I think you have a good handle on things. :slightly_smiling_face:

I see 3 ‘zones’ that apply with fasting. One is transient stuff - things that build up in the short term, due to diet, stress, environment, etc. Some of them can be reversed or at least lessened with fasting. Then there’s rather a medium-term area - when you talk about regenerating, this is what I think of. Hormonal healing, R & R for our organs, etc.

Finally, the very long term, and this is an area where we’re the most blind; we don’t really know what’s going to happen. There does seem to be some application for fasting with respect to the formation of or treatment for some types of cancer, and for nervous system benefits. Personally, I don’t know if I’m ever going to get cancer - I’m almost 61 and thus far have been okay, there, despite some history of it on my mom’s side.

Both my dad’s parents had dementia/Alzheimer’s Disease, and my dad at 82 is sadly showing early signs of it. Whatever ability fasting has to lessen or fix the build-up of amyloid plaques and misfolded protein structures - things thought to cause or contribute to neurological problems like dementia - I’m sold on fasting.

#9

The causes for insomnia are varied but usually, it’s the simplest solutions are the ones that work best. Ask yourself the following questions:

  1. Do you spend a lot of time at night online or in front of your computer? Do you stay on your computer while you wait to get sleepy enough to go to sleep?
  2. Do you watch TV while trying to fall asleep, and do you leave it on in your room while you sleep?
  3. Do you have lights on?
  4. Do you eat late in the evening?
  5. Do you drink caffeinated foods or beverages?
  6. Have you tried to use melatonin or other sleep aids to help you sleep?

If you can answer yes to any of these questions, then consider this…

The first thing a person should try to do who is struggling with insomnia is to turn off the TV, music, computer, and lights. Make the room as dark and as quiet as possible. Any stimulation our subconscious mind can latch onto it will. Even people who say they fall asleep well with the TV damage their quality of sleep if infomercials are playing all night.

Next, eliminate caffeine late in the day. The half-life of caffeine for the average adult is 5.7 hours. So if you drink 16 ozs of coffee at noon, going onto 6 PM you’ll still have roughly 100mg of caffeine in your system.

A lot of coffee drinkers or people who drink a lot of caffeinated drinks don’t really realize how powerful of a stimulant caffeine is because they no longer get that “feeling” rush of energy they did when they first started drinking coffee. It’s a lot like the reason that smokers or nicotine users don’t get that buzzy feeling they got the first time they took a nicotine hit.

But that doesn’t mean these stimulants are not having a dramatic effect on our sleep quality and contributing to our insomnia.

Eating or exercising late in the evening is also a contributor. People are busy or they’re trying to use eating windows or fit in a workout after a busy work schedule. All of these habits can affect sleep quality.

Using sleep aids won’t work in the long run. Even natural sleep aids. Your body will just adjust to them. Even something like melatonin or valerian root. And whatever you do don’t try over the counter sleep aids, they’re just antihistamines they’ll lose their effectiveness over time, and even when they do work to help you go to sleep your sleep quality will suffer.

Finally, alcohol is a terrible sleep disrupter. I know it seems counter-intuitive because the toxin depresses our neurological system, but when it comes to sleep quality drinking alcohol can really have an effect. So avoid the “night cap”

These are the common solutions people should try for a while (not just one or two nights) before they give up and move on to looking for other physiological reasons for their insomnia. Apply Occam’s razor to diagnosing physiological disorders. Because the simplest solution is usually correct.

As a former decades-long insomniac sufferer and confirmed night owl, I can tell you some of these were my problems. I stop drinking caffeine around noon. When it’s time to go to bed, I turn off the computer, TV, and lights and go to bed in a dark room. I don’t fight with the thoughts in my head. I don’t think about going to sleep or struggle with the thought of trying to go to sleep…It just happens now.