@Shinita -

Drinking coffee is not a failing at all. It’s what enables us to function daily. Its the nectar of life. It’s liquid sunshine - in a cup! Heck, the coffee bean is actually my birth stone! It’s also a great vehicle to send some melted butter and salt down ye ole’ pie hole! LOL!

Learn from the past, live in the moment, look to the future. ZC day 2 … here we come!


As for fasting, I should clarify a bit. When I was ZC carnivore last summer/fall/winter, I ended up fasting - but doing so unintentionally most of the time. With carnivore, I became fat-adapted. Once fat-adapted, I ended up eating - what I’d call - eating intuitively. This can be really difficult, especially when you are around others who eat constantly. But, I had to really listen and pay attention to my stomach. If it wasn’t growling and angry, I wouldn’t eat until it was. And, at times, I’d just let it go because I wasn’t able to eat due to work or whatever. The growling went away really fast because the fat just kicked in and fed the beast.
So, this led to longer and longer periods where I could go easily without eating, and not even trying. And in that, there is such an incredible sense of freedom and power. I experienced freedom from carb addiction, freedom from having to eat and worry about what I’d make next, freedom from the piles of fat on my body - and then power over all the temptations that previously existed in my life. And, as far as earthly things go-there is no other feeling like it! (Being born again through Jesus is the only other thing in my life that topped this.) Having said all that, this freedom and power is where I am heading once again - and hoping to stay there. Its so exciting !


ok S I get what you are saying…I agree. I have gone long times without food easily and was never hungry…but I am kinda leaning towards those who ‘force fast’ and are hungry but say ‘I need to NOT eat for 48 or 36 hrs’ because I must and if they get hungry they won’t est…if one can easily go without food for long times that is good, I can do that now :slight_smile: but if one is hungry one must eat. So many do a ‘forced fast’ even if hungry and I know they got willpower but they are then fighting against what their body wants…so yea I think me and you are on the same page :sunny:

we like ya on the carnivore thread, you can chat away all ya want!!


I have no problems with coffee - I have problems with drinking it in huge amounts all day and even using it as procrastination method… I can spend an hour in the kitchen, drinking coffee…
But my body actually isn’t completely fine with it. It changes things a bit. It doesn’t feel bad, per se but… Not ideal.
And I don’t actually need coffee and it costs money. Wasteful things. One now and then is enjoyable, I like the taste but I don’t even enjoy it in huge quantities, I just become almost a slave of it.

But it’s not in my 100 biggest problems in my life I guess so I use it az a crunch, comfort and source of joy for now :slight_smile: THOUGH… I need to say goodbye to my old life and actually get a life. I find it easier to change if I keep only the important things fixed and get rid of the problematic ones almost at once. more control over coffee helps having more control in other things. Unless I feel frustrated without it but I can’t skip something if I am tempted to consume it anyway, I don’t have the right attitude for it (I do have a strong will I am sure, I just don’t use it to skip coffee).
And even though I am only really tempted to drink coffee a few times a day at most, if I drink it, it’s super hard to do it in moderation…

But your poetry was nice :slight_smile:

I don’t use coffee to raise up my usually too high fat intake, coffee with butter is mildly gross to me anyway (better than nothing, I tried it, foamy, a bit cream-like, borderline drinkable but cream is better. egg is better. egg and cream is the absolute best :D)
I use as little salt as possible, my smoked pork already caused problems when I depended on it a bit too much (and that very piece happened to be overly salty). I quickly developed an aversion to salt if I go near to the keto recommended amount. 4-5g per day is natural and perfect for me, works on every woe :slight_smile: And salt in coffee? Sounds super gross to me (it’s probably tiny, still). I don’t use salt in coffee, chocolate and in most sweet things. Salty caramel is cool but well, I didn’t bother with caramel making for long even on keto (stupid thing always separated except the very first time).
Just like I hate sugar in meat dishes with a passion. I have salty things without sugar (if the condiment has it, it’s not because I prefer that, definitely not) and sweet things without salt. It works for me. Coffee is neutral but it’s vaguely sweets to me. So sweet things (like cream) are nice, salt is out of question.

If something is edible/drinkable, I usually put an egg in it (or 10. it depends).
In my keto times, I still had plant-based dishes… But egg makes everything better. Not cinnamon and not bacon, not even chocolate. Egg :smiley: Salty, sour or sweet? Egg goes with it.
Even so, eggy coffee without cream isn’t quite right. I developed a cream addiction. I barely touched dairy for ages except harder cheese but somehow cream found its way into my life. Cream isn’t good for me, negligible protein, sugar. But I am super good with tiny amounts. Unless it’s about eggs, obviously and most meat is like that too. Cured meat is an exception.

Now that I bought a non bitter coffee again, I truly fast so I only put cream into my coffee in my eating window and that’s tiny. Good. I am careful with my sour cream consumption too. It’s almost automatic, I learned to consume tiny amounts, it’s a habit now. We always keep a lot of sour cream at home, it’s a very basic ingredient in dishes in Hungary and usually impossible to substitute. We just didn’t use it for several years, I can’t imagine how…

Wow, your intuitive eating works so different than mine… But my body is different, I am different, I am addicted to food things… And no one eats constantly around me. Alvaro has 2-3 meals a day and almost never any separate snacks. It’s bad enough for me he eats lots of carbs… It caused problems in the past, with my non-existent discipline and love towards very various dishes… But I got better.

I couldn’t care less about my stomach. Why is it so important for people? I imagine their stomach is complaining when empty? It seems so. I don’t even notice if it’s empty except if I focus very, very hard. And what if it’s empty? It has nothing to do with anything. Being very full is a huge problem (what if I need to drink or eat? being super hungry with a stomach with 2kg stuff inside is horrible, very rare but I never forget) but emptiness is fine. Usually. Extremely rarely my stomach is noticeably, not that nicely empty and I usually ignore it. It’s just a simple state. My stomach has no idea about my body needing food as it’s only the stomach, the food has a huge journey afterwards and it becomes energy (and waste) in the end. Or it would be late if the body would tell us to eat when there are no more energy from the last meal…? I don’t know but I function just fine my way. And I have reserves anyway.
Growling rarely happens if I eat every day. Why others have it super quickly after a meal, I don’t know. And even if I have stomach/gut growls, it’s 1-2 seconds and that’s it. Maybe it happens again an hour later. But growling is one of the best anti-appetite things in my life. It’s almost certain I definitely won’t eat when I have it. It turns off my appetite. If I happen be hungry, it doesn’t always work…

I find it very good I don’t need to eat all day, that most be super uncomfortable. I find 2 times a day too much sometimes, I rarely eat quickly. Meal is almost a ritual, not a very serious, elaborated one but still. I chill, relax, talk with Alvaro, even make a new quick dish (like scrambled eggs with sausage) if needed…

But I am a natural intermittent faster. And fat adaptation is cool. Even moderate-carb can’t overpower it, I don’t need to eat many times a day. Not like I needed that before but I only had 17-18 hour fasts on high-carb. I guess. I had no idea about IF back then. I just couldn’t eat before lunch, I was way too full. No wonder, I ate a ton back then, all kind of food, even satiating ones.

But I ate a bit too much even after fat adaptation. I only had the ability not to do it and still feeling satiated but I still could eat without hunger, need and even appetite just fine. I didn’t always want to but you know, the usual, compulsions. Carnivore brought the magic, it effectively keeps me from eating too much, too often. No self control is needed, I just can’t eat more than what I should/need, I am fine. Someone like me need this.

Sorry but you talk about such interesting things here :smiley: And I am so excited too :slight_smile:
I got a wee bit hungry and ate a few bites and got full. Hey, I thought it was only for the very first week of carnivore back then (5 days but I had no meat left)… Why have I this again? Probably because I wasn’t really hungry yet…
Alvaro started to eat a freshly baked bread stick (my kitchen smelled so nice :slight_smile: and they are pretty :smiley: I love baking bread, I like pretty things) and it seemed so nice (despite it has no eggs so I don’t really like it even taste wise) that I rather ate more food :smiley: Still tiny meal so dinner will happen too.
I feel so perfectly satiated near all day (and when I not, I eat). Without something missing and urging me to eat and eating too much and not the right food, wanting the usual sweets but they rarely feel nice… I had wonderful low-carb times, I loved them but it’s better now and I changed anyway. The woe that worked nicely before causes some problems now. Even without vegetables. It’s very annoying not having the peace I expect after a meal. I eat now - and it’s fine, my mind can do its things, not thinking (too much) about food and I only had a proper meal, not too much or with slightly wrong ingredients because I desperately tried to satiate my hunger for 2 hours. It’s not my usual on low-carb even now, far from it but well, it happens. It’s worst when I simply don’t have enough proper food or I am bored with it. That never ends well. No amount of not satiating food can save me, no matter if it’s keto. I can do perfect macros and add any amount of extra fat… I am still HUNGRY. Or unsatisfied. And I blame the carbs. Even on keto.

In short: I am an idiot if I don’t try at least to stay close to carnivore :slight_smile:


We are in agreement then :slight_smile:
Oh when I tried OMAD and did IF as I couldn’t not to and frequented those parts of reddit…
It felt almost physically painful when some newbie cried that it’s so painful to be super hungry, they can’t even focus on anything, they snap at everyone and it’s a problem for their work and family… And even in those cases, everyone but me told them that they should be STRONG, drinking water and coffee and think about the benefits… And that they themselves now love and embrace hunger pains as it’s the way to success… (It sounds like a serious eating disorder to me… Maybe not in every cases but at least a warning sign.)
It was bad to read. I know fasters may have extremely different attitudes since. I always eat when hungry and can eat. I don’t resist real temptation. And I do OMAD and even short EF sometimes. My body works that way.

I tend to do ZornFast here but I always just state my vague plans. I can’t promise I won’t eat for 48 hours as how would I know when I will get hungry or weak or tempted? I merely don’t eat just because it’s lunchtime or I saw a piece of food. I even resist very subtle urges when I know my body is fine. I actually need to push myself the tiny bit I am able to as I eat too early, too unnecessarily by default. At least, not on carnivore, carnivore solves most of these problems. Both my mind and body stop their unnecessary urges. ZornFast is more important for me as I eat more carbs. Fast is zero carb so it can help my usual carb problems, I need food way less after carbier times… It’s almost pointless in carnivore. Especially now that I don’t eat without any good reason anyway. My current attitude is exactly my last ZornFast attitude (I didn’t even planned EF as I saw no chance for it) but I am more successful even without the extra help of a somewhat organized thing.
Using ZornFast, carnivore and whatever I could (fat adaptation was a must too even though it happened long ago), I don’t have a strong compulsion to eat lunch just because it’s time for it and Alvaro is eating too. I need at least some real reason even if subtle. If I completely lose it, I will be free enough. And losing it is extremely important for my carbier times. So it’s a safety measure too. It’s very annoying to have brilliant carni days followed with chaotic carbier ones ruining… Not everything but too much. If I start my carby day later (but without force and hunger, that would be bad even if I could do it. there is a reason I don’t want to), it’s less carby, less overeating, less uncontrolled. Closer to the right path.

Thank you for encouraging me, I am not sure it is a good idea but it feels nice to being free in such a lovely nest :smiley:
But I hope I won’t overcomplicate things. I eat super simple now but I think about things a bit too much. Probably because I am just back on track. It will pass.

(Kellyn ) #136

Could any of these be symptoms of anything like oxalate dumping or electrolyte imbalance or just my body healing? I get tired in the afternoon and yawn a lot, when I do have to go to the bathroom it is urgently with loose stools, and I am thirsty all the time. Hope this isn’t TMI.


yea I know this…I can do it also…in fact I did til I hit carnivore and realized I can just eat all I want or not eat when not hungry and it did truly make life so simple for me. Something that has helped me, the old ‘kiss’, keep it simple stupid :slight_smile: I got by that now LOL


what is your time on carnivore again?

adaption time can be longer for some etc. so depending on how long you are on zc your being tired is very normal when we start and can continue for a bit. Eat :slight_smile: eating helps it LOL but again a good nap never hurt anyone so very normal.

more water on zc is normal for many. just drink as you need, it is fine.

loose stools can be a few things. body healing up and dumping some toxins kinda thing and it needs time, or many don’t do well on rendered fat or just ‘too much fat’ while we are starting zc…or some say, and this hasn’t been me but many say it has been their experiences, if they drink water with a meal they tend to have more loose stools? so they don’t drink right before or after eating. If needed, choose a leaner cut of meat but playing around with your fat content can help with that a bit, but again, it can be a normal adaption for alot of us…so again, kinda normal but with the looser stools we can change things up a bit to help us out of that trouble a bit. hope some of that helps.

(Kellyn ) #139

That does help. I’ve only been zero carb for 11 days.


oh 11 days, you are adapting thru but choosing some leaner meat with say a smaller chunk of fatty meat might balance ya out a bit on fat content. Just play around with that fat a bit, you should be ok as you just let time handle the changes :slight_smile: Hold strong!! You got this!!

(Give me bacon, or give me death.) #141

@KellynP Many people on a strict carnivore diet find that they need less added salt. You might want to try cutting back a bit, to see if that helps. I know that for me, too much salt causes loose stools, whereas not enough causes constipation.


I was one who couldn’t eat fatty in the very beginning (and I always loved fat and could eat a ton of it but I always had something else than some protein with it and it seemed to matter)… It passed quickly.
Loose stools are not something I have a serious chance to get from any way of eating I am able to but it’s known fat may cause such problems. I don’t know if relative amounts do that too or it’s more about the total one or per meal…?
And I heard that about salt too.
So I am with the others, this two are good candidates.

(Edith) #143

Hi @KellynP,

When I switched from keto to carnivore, I was VERY thirsty. I have to admit, I don’t remember how long my extra thirst lasted. I had loose stools for several months.

Supposedly, sandy colored stools can be a result of oxalate dumping, but one frequently will have other symptoms along with it like crusty eyes, aching teeth, peeling skin. You may even have cloudy urine. Oxalate dumping can manifest in many ways. There is a trying low oxalate Facebook group that has all kinds of info about oxalate and dumping.

When I first switched to carnivore, I still needed to supplement salt. Over the course of a year my supplementation has decreased more and more. Now, I only add salt if I’ve really been sweating a lot due to working in the yard or exercising in the heat, and then it’s maybe 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon. I needed 2.5 teaspoons of salt every day on keto.

Let us know how it’s going.


So, it’s back to work in the city for me. The virus is pretty much forgotten by my workplace management. Some token hand sanitiser and physical distancing posters. In a few weeks we will be back to working from home. It is the height of cold and flu season in winter here. We have passed through the early rhinovirus season, then the influenza phase came on us and some people got sick, and we all know that coronavirus is the end phase of every cold and flu season, just that this year’s corona is a bit more virulent.

So, it is beholden on me to stay as healthy as possible. Thanks to July-A-Ganza. This week I tried 2 x 24 hour fasts. On Monday I have a 3 hour drive. When I arrive in the city I have a family dinner with a mother-in-law (Italian) who likes to feed everyone. She makes me meat and fat based meals, so I feast. The next day I teach, so I do those classes fasted and at about the 24 hour mark I end up at my mum’s place and she feeds me unerringly baked beef ribs and salt with sparkling mineral water. Then the next day I teach again and I do that fasted (and high on ketones), before a 3 hour drive home. I usually have an omelette with meat on it before the drive. Then back at home I go into 2MAD in a 6-hour feeding window.


It seems I do OMAD/TMAD now. Yesterday was odd as I ate 3 times but without it I would have 3 too low-calorie days (at least for me, according to my experiences but maybe it’s different on carnivore(-ish), I don’t know yet. I didn’t eat this little even on my first carni days when I got full from tiny meals and couldn’t handle much fat). I still want lose this midnight meal and I am sure it won’t be hard at all but yesterday night when I was a tad worried about my little eating and had to mix my ice cream again, I ate some food.

But I was very satiated at lunchtime today so I probably only will have a dinner. I made a new dish, I call it “Everything I have” now. Eggs, pork skin, tuna fried in lard, topped with sour cream and cheese :slight_smile:

Too bad I had zero appetite but it went below zero. Unfortunate but I always get this when I don’t have enough meat I like. Fish doesn’t help enough and my leftover smoked pork isn’t so great either. I should avoid this or I end up not wanting any food in existence at all, to the point that I rather stay hungry than eat and I am so not that type. I always solve that somehow but I can have some problematic times before. I announced desperate times so I will find something interesting in the supermarket on Saturday. Tomorrow I will have the rooster liver I keep in the fridge since 1.5 month.

Alvaro ate pizza today but as I had my almost-pizza yesterday (it was good just too salty. smoked pork skin is very salty, I used less for 2 eggs today. still salty a bit… but sour cream helps with saltiness. it’s good I can handle some lactose! the contrast between the warm salty rich stuff and the creamy, watery, cold sour cream is great), I didn’t put my usual lil not-pizza next to his. He got a bigger pizza so he didn’t eat his usual ~95% carbs dessert afterwards (the pizza is carby but not near that much). Good. I know he’s thriving on his high-carb diet but it’s instinctive for me to lower the carb content if I can. Except the fruits, someone must eat all the fruits we have in the garden, I really couldn’t make a noticeable dent if I wanted… And I can’t help but love baking bread and he likes to eat it. Just super slowly and the bread looks/feels similar to a stone in the end but he doesn’t mind (I can’t help that, it has very little white flour, it’s dense to begin with and Alvaro likes it that way).
But things changed in this household. We eat way, way more meat now (a proper meaty dish every week that lasts for some days and fish pizza every week too, eggs with pork even for him. I eat meat much more often than him but the amount isn’t much less as we eat the most meat in our proper meaty dish and only I eat the pork skin and the excess fat tissue) and even the vegetable curry has some fish now (still not right for me but at least he doesn’t work hours for a not satiating food that disappears quickly. even some fish makes the food more substantial and more nutritious. he probably still gets the majority of his protein from plants but that works too. but some more animal protein and especially some kind of meat surely can’t hurt, in the contrary :)).
But it’s best when we have baked fish (best from the fish options, I still prefer other meats). Or if it’s not good enough for that, the coated one, that was good.

I want my appetite back. I am fine with the amount of food I eat but I want to enjoy it again…
(The roots of my problems is usually simple. It’s carbs off carni and lack of tempting meat on carni.)

I had “late OMAD with some bites before” today. I waited until a proper hunger and it came before 6pm. I consider the week a success this far. Not perfect but a huge improvement, though the bar was low, again…

My photos about my dish have no visible meat just eggs and dairy so it’s not carnivore enough for this thread, I decided :wink: The pic thread gets them.

I still think about food too much, even on OMAD (+bites) days. But I need to plan well now and anyway, it’s me.

Best wishes, everyone!


I have found some steaks on special. Every night is steak night. Recently I am eating steak and bacon each evening meal. It is July 31 here. Thanks @Fangs for inspiring July-A-Ganza!

(Kellyn ) #147

Will there be an August zero carb thread?


I can’t imagine it won’t :smiley: Finally I am on track, even if I will have off days for reasons, I want to keep my momentum… And I love these threads, Fangs is a chill one in her enthusiastic way and that’s so cool. Going with the flow, no particular struggles or overcomplications… That’s very nice.
For some reason, the “no-debate just hanging out” carnivore topics are my favs, nice lovely places to be. One day I will calm down and write a bit less into them.

(Dennis Jacobs) #149

Franko, With you on that. Found flatiron at local Fred Meyers @ 50% off!!! Think of over a lb of fine eating @ under 4.00 per meal. Lovin it


Yes tomorrow we begin :slight_smile: August-Palooza is gonna take flight for sure for all us who wanna chat all the great things about zc for sure!!