Judgement and Disappointment

#8

I feel it is fine for someone to get some feelings off their chest. I get it.

Your post didn’t bother me, I feel you needed to say it. Cool.

For me I was off typing in another post when after I came and saw your post and darn if I wasn’t kinda saying the same thing in a way…not ranting on differences on how we handle our journey and such…but I realized I am a different eater, Carnivore, than a Keto Plan eater. I realized I have to watch how I come across and know I need to be watchful definitely how my beliefs ram into others. So yea I get your drift…but I have to say from being on this forum it is super mild compared to some other ones out there, in fact I rate this one a fun place to be with super nice people. Yea we can ram a lot of our personal experiences at others but some science is just that, truth and one we can’t ignore but how this forum stays a ketosis forum is important. Do what one likes and requires for sure but a ketogenic forum is just that, like minded people wanting to be in and stay in ketosis and become keto adapted…so…I am glad you got your feelings out and hopefully things will improve for you on the site.

(David Jackson) #9

I should add that I’m not coming from a “victim” standpoint. I’m not the target of my observations. I don’t think one should be required to be the target of offense to make the observation.

Which is what my post was about. Observed behaviors. And while I do, for the most part, enjoy the forum, I have been less active the last few weeks. On purpose. Because of the caustic nature of many of the responses to this topic or that. And I’m glad I’m not the only one to notice. And yes, this forum is less toxic than Facebook or reddit. But I could say that in equal doses many poisons are less harmful than others. The fact remains is that even the less harmful poisons are still poison.

The whole point of my post was to reach out, create awareness in the hope that we could, as a community, be less poisonous and more supportive.

That’s all.

#10

I get that. Some things are bothering you on responses and you just wanted to point that out. But it truly tho is up to the poster who you think gets bombarded for whatever reason to react. We are not children here. Adults can stick up for themselves.

Any forum there is different ways of typing to get points across etc. and sometimes they come out harder than wanted, or some people are extremely direct etc. It is going to happen.

Awareness…cool. I absolutely get that. I hope some awareness happens :slight_smile:

(hottie turned hag) #11

Nor have I.
With one exception, a nasty tempered fella who caused even the kindest soul on here to post the ONLY critical post I’ve ever read from that person, and he vanished after being reported.

Hellyeah; Weird Uncle Dave @David_Stilley does this so well, as does @PaulL, I do not, I haven’t the patience.

(Susan) #12

I am in agreement with both of you lovely ladies. I have found it to happen only on rare occurrences and when it has, I think enough of us have reported the people.

I think that most of us try to encourage and give advice from our own personal experiences, and try to explain that that is what it is.

For sure @David_Stilley and @PaulL are both terrific at doing this, I totally agree =).

#13

Wow what a topic. Has the ketogenic forum frontier town reached that size? And entered into destabilisation. Makes me wonder, “Where’s the thorn?”

  • Cheat days (became word play); reviewed the Is it safe to have cheat days on keto? thread and couldn’t identify any vitriol. Some great posts there and some heartfelt ones. Learnt about abstainers and moderators. I saw you were there @DaveJackson, Turns out we are lucky enough to be moderators rather than abstainers. That was good stuff. Might have been looking for vitriol in the wrong place?

  • Water (everywhere) How do you drink your water?? Nup, no vitriol here. Possibly some tough love.But the conversation didn’t flow too deep.

  • Fats & Oils (a slippery topic)

  • Fat people at work - now that was/is a doozy of a thread. Plenty of gentle steps around the potentially explosive opinion. Great reading and thought inspiring.

  • Vitriol (nice word use, could be construed as a judgement)

  • Best not to mention “calories don’t matter”. That topic, like brown fat, creates some heat.

But it weren’t any of these, it was the way responses were read. or mis-read. i agree with disappointment. Disappointment in not yet finding vitriol unto which to feign, or profess indignation.

I enjoy coming on to the forum and being a bit challenging with posts and replies. And I know that I have been quickly told off when I overstep. Lots of different cultures here. Global aspects. People behave different depending upon societal norms.

I agree we need to be gentle with the inquiries of newbies as they are not yet armed with enough knowledge to summit Mt. Stupid in the Dunning-Kruger diagram.

But vigorous debate among the oldies and between different keto approaches results in deeper nutrition learning. The debating of minutiae and the latest wave of ketocarnivore keeps the topics feed flowing. It is a bit of a wild frontier this keto world. Full of characters and n=1 opinions.

I’d hate there to be a sheriff instead of gunfights. But since we are voting for peacekeepers, I vote for @SomeGuy Joey.

#14

There’s a Godfather?

(ANNE ) #15

Online forums, seem to me, to be a real time conversation.
We take turns, and over time the conversations of yesterday, month and year, well, they fade and become silenced by the new.
Newcomers to a conversation, start off by overhearing the conversation, then sit down to join it. They don’t know what older stuff has been said, they are in the here and now.
I think that is why we see such repeated questions, about “keto flu, carbs less than 20-50, ketostix, fat fast, water fast” and so on.
When online forums are viewed as a conversation (as I do), we don’t primarily think to research old conversations first to answer that question. I would not do that if I was in the room with you in person.
Hats off to the patience and kindness shown by the moderators of these forums. I do thank you, because I am guilty of asking newbie questions and the wise signpost the way to me.
My written word lacks the tone and emphasis of my spoken words. I think I may not be alone in this. The written word has never had such power as it currently has IMHO.
Thank you again to you all, who help me and countless others to eat well again.

(Joey) #16

@FrankoBear Uh-oh. It seems whenever I excuse myself to use the restroom, I get nominated for something while absent.

But thanks for the consideration :vulcan_salute:

(Bob M) #17

Dr. Phinney?

https://infinityketo.com/carbs-vs-net-carbs/

(Bob M) #18

To me, the vitriol is coming from carnivores. I see people on Twitter all the time who immediately have to apologize for eating vegetables. Are carnivores becoming the new vegans, ie, kinda crazy and always holier than thou? I think they might be.

(Nay) #19

I don’t think anyone need feel guilty of asking newbie questions. That’s how we learn :blush:

(Joey) #20

Discussing veganism may be red meat to carnivores? :cut_of_meat: (no offense intended to red meat)

(Scott) #21

I think we need to also not be so quick assume that someone is superior, shaming or judgemental (to the point of being mean spirited).
It is much like discrimination, we discriminate every day. The places we like to go, people we associate with etc. but this does not mean we are racist which is the default knee jerk reaction when that word is used. I ran into this when I, on another site, commented that I will notice the types of foods others in the store place in their cart. I was met with pure hatred. “how dare you spy on people” “you are so judgemental” “you think you are so superior” “you don’t know but they may be buying for someone else” etc. The response was as if I was pointing at them while blowing an air horn followed by shouting “EPIC FAIL”. I will use last week as an example. I see an obese parent with a very obese child sitting in the cart with what we could all here agree was very highly processed foods loaded with extra sugar. I genuinely felt bad for the family because I know that it is likely there will be negative health consequences later on in life. After leaving and on the road I asked my wife “did you see that family in front of us?” Yes she replied. That was all that was said about it.
I think we are all here to share what works for us. Maybe some can be a bit heavy handed in their opinions but with a few rare exceptions I think this is the kindest forum I have ever had the pleasure of being a member of. If recommending someone eat less fruit after they ask “what am I doing wrong” so be it.

#22

Such an inappropriate post.

A mild post was made to you and you react as a child.
It is shameful truly.

(hottie turned hag) #23

It really is.
I’ve only posted on this and a Linux Mint forum and engage in zero social media BUT I have lurked on many a forum on topics of interest and this is by far the most laid back bunch I’ve ever seen.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #24

Nonsense. Bob merely noted an observation, asked a question. Then stated an opinion. All very politely. If he can’t do that on a public forum then there’s no point to a public forum.

#25

a harder core response that wasn’t truly cruel doesn’t rate this type of cruelty back. Running off on the site and crying and typing a cruel blanket post. Yea that is adult. While I understand your opinion, you best understand mine and I don’t appreciate it being labeled nonsense. See I respect yours and you respect mine.

(back and doublin' down) #26

yep! I spent hours and hours here as a beginner. Great support, clarification and learning happened. then I drifted away, still with keto as a WOE. Now I’m back. And immediately got the support and encouragement I was hoping for. Kinda like I walked back into the bar and found the regulars ready to welcome me with no criticism or complaint.

We do all come from different places with different perspectives and how we interpret other’s comments is our responsibility. If what someone says offends you, maybe ask yourself why?

Love this place and hope all feel a similar sense of acceptance and support.

(hottie turned hag) #27

“Hey, Norm!” :smiley: