It is not only sugar

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #42

@Arbre Carbohydrates comprise a spectrum of sugar molecules from the simple, glucose (most easily digestible), to the complex, cellulose (totally indigestible). The more any specific carbohydrate resembles glucose and the less it resembles cellulose, the more easily and quickly it digests and affects blood glucose and insulin (higher glycemic load). The more it resembles cellulose and the less it resembles glucose, the more effort and time it takes to digest and affects blood glucose and insulin more slowly (lower glycemic load). [Source]

Most foods containing significant carbohydrates contain a mix of many different saccharide molecules. This complicates exactly how the food (rather than the specific saccharides) affect the glycemic load. [Source] How much and how fast any specific food affects blood glucose and insulin is important. Your metabolism can deal with ‘low and slow’ better than ‘high and fast’.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #43

Stefansson recorded what he observed in great detail. When scientists of the period refused to accept his observations he volunteered for a year-long study to demonstrate their validity. He spent the rest of his life living the diet he observed, experienced and recorded while living among the Inuit. That’s not an 'ism. That’s a brute fact. You can wave your hands all you want, talk about CPT-1a and Chris Masterjohn, and believe in plant eating fantasies. The brute fact remains.

(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #44

May not?

Surely you have some evidence, if such a thing were provable…

I do know there are studies that show the reduced bio-availability of many plant sourced nutrients, as well as mineral depletion caused by certain plant based foods, particularly by grains.

If it matters, I’m not carnivore, nor am I arguing for a carnivore way of eating as being superior to a diet that includes some plant sourced foods. I’m just saying plant sourced foods are not necessary for human health, but animal sourced foods are.

(Bunny) #45

I would not say “all” plant sourced foods are not necessary for human health because there some essential nutrients not in animal proteins or fats and if you don’t get that one nutrient the other nutrients will not work correctly especially if you run short on amount and you would not be able to eat enough protein to get the proper of essential nutrients if your a strict orthodox carnivore who may just be running on fumes and all he or she is doing is surviving as there health goes on the decline?

I do have big biase against grains (saw dust) unless they are fermented from seeds which removes a lot of the phytic acids besides cooking plant based substances to extract the essential micronutrients in them and removes most of the phytic acids, lectins and oxalates ect. that get so despairingly worried about. Occasional raw (phytonutrients) in anything plant is also good for us.

Another thing about being in cold Arctic environment is it will be activating brown adipose tissue which burns carbohydrates directly (UCP-1 if you have access junk food; problem with the modern day indigenous is they might be eating way too much highly concentrated junk food that’s why they are ending up with diabetes?) and does not store glucose as fat or a lipid droplet which is another advantage to being ketogenically fat adapted is you produce more brown adipose tissue (BAT) or beiging/browning of adipose tissue with iron rich mitochondria (more mitochondria means more UCP-1 burning than storage going on?) which makes you into a carbohydrate burning machine without storing any glucose as fat.

(Bunny) #46

Yes I understand all of that and know all of that; believe me, what your saying has been burned into my brain stem a hundred times over.

Bottom line you have no proof eating only one type of food is healthier or better, maybe study the Okinawan’s and Polynesians why they are healthiest in the world on high carb based diet?

As far as you proving anything to me or showing me something I don’t already know other than brain washed quotes coming from bro-science still remains to be seen?

Please make an effort to impress my intellect with your brilliance?

#47

So, I’m trying to take something away from here, you think it is mostly butyrate that needs to be added to the diet?

(Bunny) #48

Yes definitely or we would not even be a species to grace the earth with our presence if we did not have dependency on buytrate producing gut bugs? You have to feed them or you die (survival of the fittest - Charles Darwin)!

#49

Well, if you think about it, our bodies are primarily a vessel for other life forms, LOL!

(Bunny) #50

Yes 1% human (I think is the term) and 99% microbiome with a brain attached to it?

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #51
(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #52

In case anyone missed it. β-hydroxybutyrate is a ketone. As in keto, ketosis, etc. You do not have to eat this stuff, your own body makes it and feeds it to whatever and whomever needs it, including your so-called gut biome. Oh, right, if you’re not eating keto or in ketosis, then you’d have to eat something with butyrate in it to be healthy. I think that’s probably why we evolved to make this stuff ourselves. Just in case we couldn’t find edible carbs lying around with significant butyrate content. Which for most of our evolution was the way it was.

(Bunny) #53

Exogenous supplementation of butyrate Parmesan cheese, grass fed butter (secondary MCT’s):

•You can eat butyrate; problem is, that it never makes it to your lower colon and your body is burning it up for fuel.

Endogenous creation of butyrate by gut microbiome:

•Your own body makes butyrate as long as the microbiome that make it are fed (resistant starch).

No resistant starch or non-digestible carbohydrates to feed butyrate producing bacteria?

•When you eat only meat those bacteria that produce butyrate die off and MicroRNA’s from the animal protein fill your lower colon, rectum (rectal cancer) and work there way up to the upper gastrointestinal tract and start cancer angiogenesis and your only antidote is resistant starch?

•Listening to Shawn Baker (another victim of Tom foolery) as I write this and letters to him (“world going carnivore” vlog entry) from avid devotees about so called health improvements (supposed microbiome?) due to switching to the carnivore diet?

•When you eat only meat it leeches excess calcium from your entire body (as a CAC scan will show) but after that it starts leeching from your bones and teeth and you end up with brittle bones; as time will be very telling?

Anyone who claims to eat only animal proteins and fats for an X amount of years should be subject to strict scrutiny about there honesty?

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #54

That’s why all those skeletons of our hunter/gatherer ancestors show marked loss of bone density… Oh, wait.

(Bunny) #55

Maybe? But if your only eating ribeyes (…if your wealthy enough to do so…lol) and no cheese or non-pasteurized animal milk, pasteurized (removes all the beneficial enzymes and other unknown and known essential nutrients)?

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #56

And if you only eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and Twinkies. Not maybe.

(Bunny) #57

I don’t think ancient people would be eating peanut butter and jelly samiches or twinkies?

They would be eating Whole Foods but bone density has more to do with lack of fats and raw milk (calcium) to process vitamin K and D (cholesterol) and then you have increase in dietary carbohydrates so dietary fats get reduced due to availability of other cheaper types of foods like grains? You do get calcium from plants to but you need fat to make it useful and when you throw lots of glucose into the mix it (calcium) sticks to your veins and arteries rather than going to bones and teeth.

Now according to people like Dr. Berry “…you don’t need to eat calcium?” Something wrong with that kind of thinking when your telling people only to eat meat and go carnivore?

One things is certain and definite, eating only meat will strip your bones and teeth of calcium and throw your nitrogen balance into chaos eventually regardless of philosophies or projected theories about the “…onset of agriculture and weak bones…” period.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #58

They didn’t have ribeyes either. They were eating the whole animal (‘head to tail’) and by all available evidence were healthier than their plant-eating descendants, including most of us now. Stop moving the goal posts. Eating only meat and no fat leads to ‘rabbit starvation’, which is protein poisoning. We’ve already had that discussion elsewhere. No one advocates that and you know so. You keep conflating foods we have available now, 12K years into the agricultural age, with what was available during most of human evolution. Our ancestors got calcium by eating bones, and you could do the same with no need for any dairy whatsoever. They got all the minerals and vitamins they needed from muscle and organ meats, bones and marrow. Plants during the Pleistocene and before were so nutrient dilute, it was hardly worth time and effort to gather them. You would expend more energy collected than you got from eating.

(Doing a Mediterranean Keto) #59

Do you have any reference about “Plants during the Pleistocene and before were so nutrient dilute, it was hardly worth time and effort to gather them”? No judgement at all, I am purely interested to know.

(Bunny) #60

Rabbit starvation comes from eating only rabbits…lol

What proof do have that they only ate animals? They were most certainly eating plants? I can definitely see grains (“onset of agriculture“) having there proper place in the picture your painting?

As far as your goal posts are concerned: moving them is a two way street?

Paradox is not a goal post, it is a set of contradictions that reach the conclusions of a stated point? Somewhere in those variables is the truth?

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #61

@Arbre