Is this a "normal" adaptation period?

#1

Forgive the long post, but I want to make sure I provide enough information.

I am 4 weeks into a ZC diet, and I am really struggling. I know everyone says that it can take a really long time to fully adapt, but I’m feeling really terrible most of the time, and it seems to be getting worse not better. I will try to describe as best as possible what I’m doing and feeling, and I would love to hear if this is “normal,” id there’s something I can do differently, or if maybe this isn’t for me.

Before starting I was on a paleo-type diet, but with lots of limitations because of food sensitivities. So much so that keto was difficult since I can’t do nuts, greens, cruciferous vegetables, and lots of other things. Things were improved, but I still had some problems, particularly GI and skin issues. I decided to try ZC as an uber-elimination diet to see if it helped. I started eating meat, salt, and eggs. My skin problems got worse, so I cut out the eggs after about a week and a half. A few days ago I decided to cut out everything but beef, to see if I was having trouble digesting certain types of protein, like pork.

Like I said, my skin is worse, but my bigger concern is the GI problem. When I first started I had bad diarrhea, then no bowel movements for about a week and a half, then explosive watery diarrhea. That period of time was actually when I felt the best. Since that time, I’ve started having stomach cramps and gurgling pretty much every day, often accompanied by mild diarrhea (urgency, looseness, sometimes basically liquid). About once a week I have a bout of really bad diarrhea. Several times I have woken up in the middle of the night feeling nauseous, with full body shakes and eventual diarrhea. I have also had some other concerns, such as feeling overly full and lethargic after meals (even though I’m not eating that many calories - a little less than 2000 a day, probably), and sometimes I feel short of breath for no good reason. All of this is a definite deterioration from before I started.

I have considered that maybe I’m having either too much or too little fat, but as far as I can tell there isn’t a correlation with my symptoms. I have also been eating a lot of roasts, and I’m wondering if there is something about the over-cooked meat that is bothering me, because steaks are more appealing. Also, the fat in roasts is completely unappetizing, even though I used to love it. I am going to try limiting myself to things that I can cook more rare and see if it helps.

Any thoughts, suggestions, or advice would be greatly appreciated. I want to really give this a full try, but I am really struggling.

(Chris) #2

Sorry to hear about your struggles.

Do you drink water while you eat? Drinking within about an hour prior to or after eating can cause diarrhea - your stomach pH is precisely formulated to liquify meat- and watering it down can slow that process or cause unwanted issues.

Full adaptation can take months - and underlying issues could rear their head, so to speak, which is usually something that was already going on but was highlighted by changing your diet. I assume this could possibly explain the skin problems (but I am not a doctor).

ZC 16 months. Let me know if you have further questions.

#3

Thank you. I will try the water thing. I just wish I could know if/when things will get better. A few months is a long time to stick with something terrible hoping that it turns good. Here’s hoping!

#4

I found (advice from @Dread1840 ) that I needed digestive enzymes for a while was incredibly helpful. Don’t need them any more, but i rarely manage a whole pound of meat at a time. Usually half that.

Also had/have lingering gut problems from before going ZC and I’m v familiar with food intolerances. So I am going to suggest that you take things gently.

So many carnivores love beef, but it would be waaay too much for me, day after day. Too heavy duty. I do better on variety. Lighter meats. Including fish, which seem soooo much easier for me to digest…

I’m not suggesting you switch from 100% beef to 100% oily fish. But it might be worth trying baked salmon one day, and then observing how your gut reacts.

Another suggestion would be to try and get heritage breed, or grassfed, just to see if the quality/grain of the food has affected your sensitivity to the meat.

These are just suggestions though. All I know is that my entry into ZC did not match with the experiences of others, and while carni was a definite improvement over meat+veg keto, it has taken 11 months of gentle adjustments and increments for me to really notice wellness.

I’m now doing a version of carnivore with keto fat to protein macros, plus organ meat nearly every day, and every day I achieve the right macro balance is a significant improvement over days when I don’t.

(Chris) #5

Amazing. I’d totally forgotten that I advised this. Glad it helped!!

(Ken) #6

How much fat are you eating? Digestive tract explosions like you describe are what I get whenever I overeat beef protein without enough fat.

#7

I’m not sure. For a while it actually seemed like too much fat was causing the problem (two of my worst nights were right after I ate some fatty roast or pork steaks). But I cut down on the fat because it wasn’t appealing, and I’m still having trouble. I started tracking it because I thought it might be relevant, and I do think that my fat intake is probably too low. But I’m struggling to get more into my diet. I’m not doing eggs, butter, ghee, or cheese because I think they might cause me problems (but if I can reach a baseline I want to try adding them back in to be sure). As I said before, I have no interest in the fat in a fatty beef roast. When I cook ground beef so much of the fat cooks out. Other than just eating ribeye all day, are there other tricks to try to up my fat intake?

#8

What kind of digestive enzymes did you use?

#9

I used Solgar ones - and when the package arrived it amused me tremendously to discover that I had picked ‘vegetarian’ ones. Haha! But they did the job.

Another time I would pick a different type I think, purely because the reason I turned carnivore in the first place was because I was experiencing quite a few reactions to veg (fibre, food intolerances and autoimmune) so adding in more veg sourced stuff as an ‘aide’ seems illogical.

There are different enzymes for digesting carbs, fat and protein. So if you can identify which of the 3 you are finding problematic, you may be able to buy targeted enzymes for just that item. Fat has never been a problem for me, but carbs yes, and more than small portions of protein, yes.

(Omar) #10

You may have leaky gut. You may have low stomach acid.

How do you handel almonds?

How do you feel when you drink ACV?

How do you feel when you drink baking soda solution?

Do you burp?

Do you feel that your digestive track can handle excessive fat? for instance any whitish stool or pain under the right tip of the cage.

(Elizabeth ) #11

You really don’t need to up your fat intake if leaner meat is satisfying.you may need to eat more meat than somebody who’s eating fattierr, but you’ve got to get your energy out of it.

#12

I don’t seem to be able to do almonds. ACV did not seem to make a difference when I tried it (but it was a while ago). I have never tried a baking soda solution. I’m not sure about the fat issue. I have never noticed any problems like you describe, just what I noted in my original post.

#13

Oh, and sometimes I do have problems with feeling burpy. That has been worse since I went ZC, but better in the last week or so.

(Sugarless Monday) #14

It’s very similar to the early symptoms of scurvy, i will recommend 1 fruit a day to avoid any risks.
try to eat 1 whole lemon fruit or 1 bell pepper a day, it will not throw you out of ketosis but will provide you with sufficient vitamin C to avoid scurvy.

#15

There are tons of info on vitamin C and carnivore and why no one gets scurvy eating fresh meat.

here is one just posted by another…low ketones and vitamin C discussed. around time 6:02 in this video it is discussed why the vitamin C and scurvy is just an old old myth. Time to let this one die.

#16

No, sorry, not necessary to eat fruit. It might not even be necessary to eat organ meats, although I do love liver. There are lots of resources as Fangs noted. Here’s one that’s a quick read. there are many others and the vitamin C question is one of those that is asked regularly.

(Elizabeth ) #17

You understand this is a carnivore forum We don’t worry about being in ketosis but we only eat animal products

(Sugarless Monday) #19

Afaik, there are 0 studies on mild vitamin C deficiency.
there is virtually no vitamin C in muscle meat after cooking, and since vitamin C is very sensitive to heat, the very few trace amount of this vitamin that do survive the cooking, is destroyed.
so unless he consume raw meat regularly, i would rather be cautious and less dogmatic and not downplay the risks.
we should also remember that not everyone is the same, we all have slightly different genetic.

(Sugarless Monday) #20

Also as previously answered, it’s may be worth to include seafood, and overall variety may also important.
not basing your meal only on ribeye steak all the time, you may also miss some fermented food in your diet.
you wrote that you avoid dairy products because you concern it will worsen your symptoms, but you could be wrong, in fact, fermented dairy products have potential to greatly reduce your symptoms, your only way to find out if dairy is harmful or not, is by reintroducing it.
never turn the diet into religion.
many carnivores underestimates the importance of vitamin C in the same way vegans underestimates the importance of protein.

#21

If you’re so intent on eating fruit then go eat fruit, no one here is telling you not to.
However, as was stated earlier, this is the Zero Carb area of the forum. Fruits are sugar, we don’t do that.
Many of us do eat seafood. We eat from the animal kingdom and that is a pretty broad category.

As for vit C, you should go check out the long term carnivores and see if they’re falling apart. Hint… they’re not. There are, as stated, tons of info on this subject as it’s one of the first objections that people bring up. In fact, no one knows how much vit c we actually need and the body works quite differently when you aren’t shoveling in glucose to compete with vit c uptake.

As for dairy, the reason a lot of carnivores drop it is precisely because it causes problems.

What next? Resistant starch? (… sorry for the bit of snark but that one was a doozy)

Meanwhile, if you want to be meat heavy Keto that’s a great option. Like you said people are different and I wish you much luck and success on your journey whatever you choose.