Is there anything in these claims?

(Bunny) #21

I think once you have optimized your metabolism via keto, then increase carbs on this type of diet that it would work perfectly because it is a higher carb version of keto!

The problem is staying within the parameters that Dr. Shou-Ching Jaminette is talking about, their is lots and lots of efficacy, research and history behind what she is talking about, she is also a scientist and her credentials are astounding!

Notice the omega 6 and omega 3 ratios, safe starches, bone broth, organ meats, it is basically what a keto diet should look like down the road (with safe starches and natural sugars) after metabolic fitness is established!

Everything that is keto and safely maintaining a non-refined sugar and processed foods (what gets us into this mess to begin with) metabolism is their!

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(matt ) #22

A pound of sweet plants or Safe starches?
Plus a pound of root or bulb veggies?

That may be a good diet for some but its not really keto with those carb levels. You could easily eat 200 grams of carb a day on that diet. That’s 10x what I eat (if not more). I do not think even a healthy metabolism would stay healthy at that level.

(Bunny) #23

I disagree on the amount also. I think it is too high!

(Adam Kirby) #24

The breakdown of the diet looks pretty gimmicky, but I’m sure it would work fine for people with more carb tolerance/more need for glucose due to activity. When see “perfect” anything claims though I start backing away slowly.

(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #25

Use a paleolithic lens to consider the past. Fruit was less sugary, vegetables were seasonal, starches were few, and fat was from animals. Honey was rare.

It’s more likely that dietary glucose is the odd situation and that gluconeogenesis is the default state.

(Bunny) #26

The longer fruit stays on trees, bushes etc… the more sugary they become! ( just thought I would mention that)

(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #27

There is a belief in the body building community that low carb produces flat muscles. I see the theory, without glycogen restoration, dehydrated muscles would not have the same appearance.

Using bodybuiders as models only works if you want to look like a bodybuilder.

(Chris) #28

Exactly. How do you lessen your tolerance to heroin? I can tell you it’s not by doing MORE heroin…

(matt ) #29

And then they ferment and you can end up with drunk animals. :slight_smile:

(Adam Kirby) #30

Wouldn’t adequate protein consumption take care of refilling muscle glycogen via gluconeogenesis?

I think what bros actually mean by this statement, is that eating a lot of carbs makes your muscles fuller from water retention. Yeah, it sure does.

#31

I’ve never heard of that person. Are they credible?

(Bunny) #32

Just look at her credentials, it will blow your socks off!

(Adam Kirby) #33

I put very little stock in credentials, I put stock in intelligent ideas.

(Bunny) #34

She has that too!

(Adam Kirby) #35

The fact that she’s connected with a thing called the “perfect health diet” makes me slightly doubt that. It’s basically higher-carb paleo. Which is fine if you can tolerate it and like such a way of eating, but I don’t see any evidence that 2lbs a day of starches and sugary vegetables is optimal.

(Bunny) #36

E.g. In Russia during the War that’s all they had to eat was potatos and bread people lived longer (mortality rate) eating rationed potatos and bread (freshly milled and baked within 48 hours of being milled) because that is all their was to eat and we’re healthier at that time than any time in the history of Russia even up to this day they not as healthy or lived as long as that point in time!

(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #37

Takes a lotta protein to make enough glucose to refill a couple hundred pounds of LBM.
Easier to do it with fast carbs post workout, 25-100g, with protein for repair. I used to use a product called SportBeans when I was lifting under LCHF. Was about 26g of carbs with some vitamins and electrolytes. Did not kick me from fat burning, and did improve muscle appearance. I didn’t count it to my carb count, so real carb counts were in the 50s to 60s. Probably within my critical carb level for loss in Atkins parlance, but still… the mooks know their mook stuff. As very few mooks started 60-70 lbs overweight, as I have, I only look to mooks for mook stuff, not for weight loss with less LBM, as that’s beyond their interest of investigation.

Again, unless you want to look like a bodybuilder, they have limited usefulness as gurus.

(Adam Kirby) #38

That’s correlation not causation. What is your proposed biological reason that would cause potato and bread consumption to lead to higher longevity?

I would argue that eating high carbs in the absence of fat will certainly not have the deleterious effects seen by mixing high carbs and high fat aka Standard Western Diet. Is it optimal, though?

And it should be said that the Perfect Health Diet is in fact not low fat, but a mixed energy diet, which would lead me to say that it’s less optimal than a diet where you choose one substrate and minimize the other. Just my theory though!

(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #39

I find the second part of that statement in need of some “Show me the science.”
I cannot find a link to suggest that non-military Russians were healthier during WW2 than immediately before or after. Mortality during the war was considerably higher, but it’s hard to disentangle the health of the general citizenship from the casualties of the front line, as the Nazis were are the backdoor and in control of large plots of Russian food producing land.

I am very skeptical of your statement that folks were healthier in that period.

(Bunny) #40

…Just an example of something in starchy vegetables that we may need that science has not yet found an answer to e.g. a type of sugar?