Is keto less effective in people with APOE-4 genotype?

(joe) #28

Troy, in case you haven’t found the Dr. Patrick video, it’s here: https://www.garmaonhealth.com/23andme-genetic-data/ along with suggestions about how to use 23andMe genetic data.

(joe) #29

CSue, while it’s true that the larger LDL particles are less risky, it’s not by much. Dr. Greger of the very informative and popular NutritionFacts website cites research which indicates:

“… large LDL only raises heart disease risk 44%, instead of 63% for the small LDL.”

Note: for some reason the link I pasted is not showing up, so if you’d like to watch the video or read its transcript, go to nutritionfacts.org and search for “LDL particles”.

(Adam Kirby) #30

NutritionFacts is a vegan propoganda website and Greger is the king of cherry picking data. You’re going to have to provide something a lot more credible.

#31

Alzheimers - Statins - Lowfat Diet

(Kim Childs) #32

APOE 3/4 here. Started keto May 1/17. Didn’t have weight to lose. 55 yr female, active and fit, 130 lbs. Hypothyroid, candida and parasites are present. Did keto to try and feel better and to ward off AZ. First 6 months were amazing, clarity, focus, energy, reduced inflammation, loved it! Went on a couple of vacations (Europe and South Pacific) and found both very hard to recover from even though tried to stay as much keto as possible. Getting back to ketosis was very easy. Can easily eat within a 3 hr TRE window and pack the nutrients in. Now finding that even though in ketosis and BG stable and in good ranges, still feel like crap. Bloated, feeling overfull and burping every time I eat. Wondering if this is for me anymore. Also, sleep quality sucks! Reading that long-term keto for hypothyroidism could be bad. Always so much controversy out there on what is the right way and I know everyBODY is different, just wondering if anyone out there has had this experience after being keto for a while? #1 concern is having a lifestyle to avoid AZ. I’ve spent a ton of time educating myself in keto, hypothyroidism and see a Functional Medicine doc as well as an ND consistently. Nobody seems to have a good path forward for me. Appreciate any comments or thoughts this community may have for me.

(Bunny) #33

Related:

  1. https://www.ketogenicforums.com/t/coconut-oil-induced-depression/5271/11?u=atomicspacebunny
  1. https://www.ketogenicforums.com/t/thyroid-when-to-cycle-in-out-of-ketosis/34238?u=atomicspacebunny
  1. Constantly full (but can't lose weight on fewer calories) and heartburn/puking a little bit
(Kim Childs) #34

Thank you for your feedback and thoughts Bunny. Enjoyed the YouTubes. I don’t consume a ton of coconut oil and don’t believe depression is a big issue with me, but, interesting to note for sure.

#35

How’s your gallbladder? I had mine removed a few years ago, and I still have digestive issues, whether fasting or eating. But like you say, I still do keto for the AZ prevention. And I’d think I’d get these symptoms no matter what I eat, since like I said I even get them when fasting.

Hope you find an answer soon!

EDIT: Oh, and I do find bitters help a LOT. I make my own.

(Kim Childs) #36

Thank you for your feedback, I think I will try the bitters. My ND has never said anything about my gallbladder and I still have it and I don’t have any pain so I’m going to assume it’s OK lol

#37

Oh good, hope your GB stays well! Mine never hurt at all, I just had ongoing digestive issues. No gallstones, they said it was clogged with “sludge.” Lovely.

(Kim Childs) #38

Hi and thanks Gatita. I’m going to have to ask my ND about my GB then. Just figured I’d have some symptoms if things were off, but I guess I am if I’m not metabolizing fats and have perpetual diarrhea!

#39

No idea if my gallbladder is a problem but ever since I started taking two tablespoons a day of raw apple cider vinegar my digestion has been better. It has made a huge difference. I usually put it in some seltzer or dilute it with plain water, I never drink it straight

#40

OK, I have to try it. A Carl’s cocktail with bitters might not hurt either.

(Kim Childs) #41

Thanks Saphire. I have been incorporating ACV into my day at least a couple of days. I just can’t seem to figure out my GI right now and like I said, every time I eat, I get uncomfortable and bloat and I know I am not consuming enough calories. I have increased my carbs to 35 g/day to see if it helps with sleep from under 20 g, which I think it has, however, have gained 4 lbs in a week with that protocol. That seems ridiculous given I am not consuming close to 1700 or 1800 cal/d.

(Jeff Gilbertson) #42

I am apoe3/4. This was determined after my doctor (Rocky Patel) was concerned about my bloodwork whilst eating a very low carb, almost carnivore-only diet. My lipids were not responding to what was expected. ie, you always hear “I went low carb and my HDL went way up and my LDL went down.” Well, my HDL went from mid-thirties to low-forties. And, my LDL was higher than he’d like to see. So, he ran the genetic test, and it came back apoe3/4.

Apoe3/4 or apoe4/4 messes with your body’s ability to process cholesterol, which borks your brain in the long-term timeframe.

I have been struggling with what to eat. I changed from almost carnivore-ish to something I hope is more aligned with my genotype … ie, I changed from eating all the saturated fat I could stomach, to eating more olive oil and fish/chicken/turkey.

It’s been a challenge.

I am now at the point to where I’m not going to worry about my lipids. I’ve had two coronary calcium scans … first at 50 and last at 55 (last year). Both of them were zero (no plaque).

So, I’m going to eat what I feel like eating, but sticking with the “eat mostly meats” aspect of the diet. In other words, I’m not going to stress over saturated vs monounsaturated fats.

I’m planning more bloodwork in December. I’ll let you know how it goes.

Concerning the gallbladder …

There are two different types of issues. My wife had the first type, and had her gallbladder removed 6 years ago. I had the second type, and had my gallbladder removed in March.

The first type involves no pain and no stones (per se). The gallbladder just fails to function. This results in the burping and the feeling full after eating a few bites. They need to test for this … feed you fat and monitor how the gallbladder performs. For my wife, they scanned for stones, found none, and told her she was fine. In fact, they wanted to prescribe her an anti-depressant, assuming she was making up or symptoms, or something. After she pressed them, and learned of the second test, they did the test and realized her gallbladder just wasn’t functioning at all. She had it removed, and has been fine ever since.

The second type involves stones and pain. The gallbladder tries to function, and often does, but the stones block the duct and the pain is intense. I had gallbladder attacks that lasted for two days. The first time, I thought I was having a heart attack and rushed to the hospital. The pain is almost the worst I’ve ever felt. Horrible. I saw the pictures after mine was removed. It looked like a lumpy bratwurst. I had three stones that were nearly an inch each (and the gallbladder isn’t much more than three inches long).

My body is adjusting to a high fat diet without a gallbladder. I’m mostly pleased with the progress. Metamucil helps.

Hope this info is helpful.

(Chris) #43

I’d love to specifically hear more about this. @DaveKeto

(Adam Kirby) #44

I am concerned by this idea of eating to genetic markers. It’s a step up from doing a blood type diet and I feel it might lead people down a suboptimal route based on genetic variables that we don’t fully understand.

(Jeff Gilbertson) #45

There is a website devoted to this genotype … apoe4.info

I would recommend starting with this page:

PRIMER: An introduction to ApoE4, biochemistry, and possible prevention strategies

There are varied ideas of the proper diet on that site.
But, ketogenic is one of the ones they follow (maybe, the most commonly followed one?)

For example, this was written by the author of the above Primer:

There are many opinion leaders and scientists who believe that running in nutritional ketosis is beneficial for cognitive functioning and neuro-protection. I feel that the body of evidence from multiple researchers is consistent and plausible and follow this myself.

(Chris) #46

Can you point me to the passage that directly deals with “messing with cholesterol”? What was your LDL number that was “higher than Rocky Patel would like to see”?

(Jeff Gilbertson) #47

April 2008, fairly standard american diet:
HDL 34
LDL 58
Total 111
Trig 117

July 2011, low carb but not necessarily high fat:
HDL 52
LDL 110
Total 176
Trig 72

October 2013, low carb and high (mostly saturated) fat:
HDL 42
LDL 163
Total 234
Trig 147

Obviously, my body doesn’t respond the same as most other people.
And, the apoe3/4 is the reason.

FWIW, here are the NMR results from July 2011:
NMR LDL-P 1173
NMR LDL-C 106
NMR Triglycerides 65
NMR HDC-C 55
NMR Total Cholesterol 174
NMR HDL-P 25.6
NMR Small LDL-P 492
NMR LDL Size 20.9
LP-IR Score 44