Is Keto a gateway drug to health or disordered eating?

#1

Continuing the discussion from Whats happening to me:

We’ve been chatting about ketones and their drug like effects. This also follows in the foot steps of discussions on carbohydrate and sugar addiction. And understanding the powerful drug analogous control and feelings of loss of control (cravings and binges).

It may relate to the ill effects of chasing very high blood ketone numbers, especially if adding exogenous ketones.

The euphoric feeling of fasting has its risks and benefits.

Maybe it’s best to pursue nutritional ketosis under guidance rather than alone?

(Windmill Tilter) #2

Interesting question.

I think those of us eating OMAD and doing extended fasting would be diagnosed as having disordered eating simply by definition. Whether or not that presents vaild concern is above my pay grade. It isn’t risk free to be sure.

Extended fasting in particular is poorly understood. I’m not aware of any research on people doing extended fasting for a second time, let alone on a serial basis.

That said, I enjoy extended fasting and it drops the pounds and A1C pretty effortlessly. I’ll keep on doing them until I’m presented with evidence that they’re harmful or they start becoming difficult to do.

(Troy) #3

My go to philosopher sums it up best🤔

“I eat because I’m unhappy, and I’m unhappy because I eat.” ~ Fat Bastard from Austin Powers
:smile:

(Troy) #4

DE is a distress signal.
For me, it involves thoughts, beliefs, feelings, physical sensations, and personal narratives — our “stories” of who we are and how the world works.

SAD was a huge distress for me!
So I made a choice and change

I’ll take it as a current form of DE

Never turning back to the former

#5

It feels like it is waiting for us. Like a shark in the ocean, or a dealer in the lane way outside the pub.

You had a try at Keto, it didn’t work for you. What now? You have to eat (eventually)
#6

I love your posts Troy (and even the creepy telly tubby profile pic (apologies if that is actually a photo of you)). I think I’m addicted.

(Empress of the Unexpected) #7

Ketosis does not affect me. I feel the same whether in or out of ketosis. There is no ketosis high. As for mental clarity, I’ve had that my whole life. The purpose of keto is to heal metabolic problems. That is a much more subtle issue than all the fireworks about keto.

#8

Disordered eating may be a good thing. OMAD and even extended fasting has taught me that you don’t have to continuously feed the body. The six meals a day thinking has helped create the obesity crisis. You don’t have to continuously feed to keep moving.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #9

Why could you possibly consider that feeling good from eating keto is like taking a drug? This doesn’t make any sense at all to me. I think the SAD is a food disorder and sugar is a drug. But staying with KETO because you feel near euphoria, maybe that’s how we’re supposed to feel eating well. Basically your suggesting that KETO and a sugar/carb heavy diet are two sides of an eating disorder? Well what should we eat FrankoBear?

What risks? :cowboy_hat_face:

(Jack Bennett) #10

I was getting into twitter again the past couple of weeks (an addictive and compulsive behavior that I should probably stop).

There was one thread where people were listing doctors and health care personalities that they deemed “quacks”. One woman insisted that Dr. Fung was a quack and that any form of fasting for health was, by definition, an eating disorder. I asked a few mild questions for clarification and got blocked. Apparently people take this stuff rather personally or seriously.

I believe that people with a history of eating disorders should probably tread lightly and check with their doctors before starting fasting. It makes sense that it might trigger old behavior. But I don’t see it as unhealthy for people who don’t have this background.

Of course, the “Intuitive Eating™” people seem to see any form of restriction (time, type, or quantity) as undesirable manifestation of “diet culture”. To them, intermittent fasting is an eating disorder, keto is overly restrictive, and wanting to change your diet for health or weight loss reasons is toxic behavior. I find it rather extreme.

(Troy) #11

Haha
Thanks @FrankoBear
Much appreciated👍

(Full Metal KETO AF) #12

Don’t do that Jack, Twitter is for people with short attention spans. :laughing::joy::grin::cowboy_hat_face:

(Empress of the Unexpected) #13

No, I had no health issues. Just saying I need skin tags cut off each year. Keto doesn’t cure skin tags

(Jack Bennett) #14

@David_Stilley you’re absolutely right.

If this forum is like eating healthy, filling meat, going on Twitter feels like eating a pack of candy bars. It’s fun at the time but it leaves you jangled and craving more at the same time.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #15

I’ve seen tons of people here claim it does.

(Empress of the Unexpected) #16

Ok. So I lied.

#17

Great stuff David. I get an involuntary shiver when I see you enter through the ropes with your Mexican wrestler outfit and a bundle of sharp questions in your grasp.

Because it Is, it has those biological mimicking effects. I was always fascinated why we have plant chemical receptors in our brain and body, or at least cell receptors that are a lock and key fit to chemicals found in plants. But that is an extension on the thinking of what we’re discussing. But it does allude to drugs/ pharmacology and the hazy border between pharmacology and food where the (evil, obviously) food scientists troll around looking for the next addiction.

That could be read as antiestablishment propaganda.

Ah, a reframing move wrapped in a false dichotomy followed by…

This is intricate manoeuvring. And I’m still recovering from the food poisoning thing :wink:

I’m suggesting food is nutrients and food is pharmacology. And we’re swimming in the food is pharmacology pond. Food is therapeutic. Not eating is therapeutic. Food is addictive. Not eating is destructive. None of it should get a free pass and be let in through the gate to wreak potential metabolic mayhem.

I’m suggesting initial scrutiny then imaginative application of knowledge gained or wisdom received.

Please do not eat FrankOBear.

(Troy) #18

TAG…your it!:smile:

Slightly OT
But, yeah Dr. Berry just was talking about this

If MY freaking eye lid ST eventually falls off!
SOON hopefully

Just not a night, then, what falls in my eye😩
Gets stuck, then what …help
I can’t then see
Oh well

Enjoy

(back and doublin' down) #19

The ones in my armpits have almost all gone away, there’s one on my abdomen that hasn’t changed. But I haven’t gotten any new ones.

As to the OP, the first time I did an extended 4 day fast, I went back to work and told colleagues “now I understand how not eating gives a client with anorexia a sense of power and this could be a dangerous slippery slope for me.” The new awareness I have of food, and owning my history of binge eating means I already had habits of disordered eating. Keto is helping me reverse elements physically and emotionally that prompted that DE.

That said, I seriously doubt it would be unhealthy for me unless I was still doing long term fasting after I’d lost all my body fat, which I don’t see happening. Or if long term fasting starting causing health issues. Considering I have at least 40#s to lose, I’m safe for awhile. Given that just this past week, my PCP adjusted my meds again with the statement “I think keto is healing you” proves to me it’s just the gateway drug I need.

#21

These ones.